10 minutes "inside building" the rest is on road no matter what...

[Jones]

When we do loading, for example, when air is late, we enter the time in the inside building screen under sort and load. One can punch the time button to get the exact time one begins and ends loading. Then, you don't actually get full credit for your load time, as in bonus centers, however, you do get an allowance equal to what the effectiveness of the preload was that day. For example, if the preload was only 92% effective that day, or ran "overallowed", a driver doing loading would be given an allowance of 92% of the time they actually took, the remaining 8% would simply be over allowed. Anyway, that's the way we are instructed to show sort and load, and how it's been explained by our management team with regard to the allowance for it.

It's calculated the same way in a bonus center, and it's the way we have been instructed to enter it in as well.

 

[Re-Raise]

show it in the other work field and go big arrow down twice and pick lower case s which is skilled loading thats how we show it.

That's what I said about a week ago and they acted on here like it was some bonus driver's trick. It 's pretty simple .... if I am doing other work I record it in my diad.

 

[Re-Raise]

That's an old bonus driver's trick, and you're definitely not supposed to do that.

Whatever..

 

[Jones]

Thank you for the responses.
So far talked to Billy and the LP guy. Explained the situation. He said he is going to look into it, but until then work as directed and document my "left building" time. As far as video recording and stuff, I don't have a crew with me to do that and I don't think it's a proper response in this case. Today we had an over 5 min PCM, I will look at the ops what are the in building times for the others (just curiosity). I will update later.

As long as you enter in the actual time you leave the building, I can't see where you will have a problem.

 

[toonertoo]

I was told at a pcm with everyone else, the flavor of the month is leave building is when you pull off the dock. Im not bonus so whatever. If Im not going to make air as it is 20 minutes later that I actually leave as this month the preloads numbers are the flavor, I tell them "hey I am not going to make my air" I get a stupid look, I leave.
I havent been screeched at for my numbers in a few days, so whatever they want I do. We are expected to eat so much time and make it up, that it would make a normal head spin. Thank God we are not normal.

 

[dannyboy]

the flavor of the month is leave building is when you pull off the dock.

the problem with that is that you can not do a proper pretrip without your car pulled from the doc. so they are in essence telling you not to pretrip, or do it on road time, both which are wrong.

the minute all your loading and pretrip is over, and you buckle up to head to your route, that is when you hit left building.

if you have a bottle neck, light, security check etc while leaving, then you hit it when you leave ups property.

on road means on road, not sitting in the parking lot.

d

 

[over9five]

Be careful about taking advice from this forum. "Leave building" is when the boss tells you to, not when some internet guy says to.

HERE, it used to be when we cleared the gate. Then it was after we pre-tripped in the yard. Last I remember it was, as Tooner said, when we pulled off the belt. Then we'd do our pre-trip in the yard.

IMHO, telling you to put 10 minutes regardless of the truth is plain old dishonest. But telling you at what point to enter "leave building" is their business.

 

[dannyboy]

Be careful about taking advice from this forum. "Leave building" is when the boss tells you to, not when some internet guy says to.

actually, leave building is not when the boss tells you it is, but when you do. if he comes to you and tells you as you are loading your truck to leave, he has that right. so you leave. if that means packages left at the building, he has that right to tell you when to leave

what we are discussing here is the unbridled mis-use of "working as instructed" to falsify records. the only reason for that is to make the preload look better on paper.

if they only want 10 minutes, then they can instruct the drivers in writing if it is that important. but any thing else is falsification of the timecard by the driver.

But telling you at what point to enter "leave building" is their business.
a good way to get an understanding of the issue is to ask, "do i leave within 10 minutes, or do i wait till the packages are all loaded and i do my pretrip? if they say you stay and load, then you cant very well leave the building, now can you. and if he insists that you put in 10 minutes, and you do, then you have falsified your time card.

ole pal, i know what you are trying to say, but wrong is wrong. they can say all they want, but when you actually do, then you have become an accomplice to dishonesty. so if that is the case, or the sup makes it a big deal, call the ethics hotline.

I never had to call, as they never made an issue with my non compliance. yea, they griped and complained, but nothing beyond that.

d

 

[over9five]

What exactly does the DIAD say? I think you are confusing "Leave building" with "on-road time". I realize you may consider them one and the same, but I still think it's managements prerogative to determine when you leave the building. I would suggest that "leave building" could be several minutes before you are "on road". Actually, as in my yard you would surely leave the building several minutes before you leave the yard, it would be considered two separate things.

So, do you leave the building when you start your car?
Or when you drive out the actual building?
Or after you do your pre-trip outside the building?
Or when you leave the property?

Leave building (if that's what the Diad says when you make that entry) is not necessarily the start of your on-road time. It's managements call to decide when you enter "leave building". As long as it's a specific point for everybody, and not "10 minutes", it's their call.

 

[chopstic]

ole pal, i know what you are trying to say, but wrong is wrong. they can say all they want, but when you actually do, then you have become an accomplice to dishonesty. so if that is the case, or the sup makes it a big deal, call the ethics hotline.

I never had to call, as they never made an issue with my non compliance. yea, they griped and complained, but nothing beyond that.

d

Dannyboy is right... just because someone instructs you to do something wrong, it doesn't take the blame off yourself when doing it. You are still responsible for your own actions, which in this case is a dishonest action that could result in discipline.

That same supervisor could also instruct you to rob a bank, but guess what... you would still be found responsible for your own actions, not the supervisor.

 

[telly]

You should ask more questions of the situation. As many as you can think of. Then let them know you think a PCM (a public announcement to lock them in) would be really helpful. After they lock themselves in you can call the 1800#.
Its called fraud; and if their #s get them a bonus(monetary award) then it can be considered criminal fraud. I would not personally want to be a party to it because you are just as legally liable as they are. They cannot require you to do anything illegal.
Dont let them know how intelligent you are about what they are doing until they have implicated themselves and do not agree to illegal activities. Though it may already feel like a prison- prison is worse. You are still an american, stand up for yourself or they will stand on you. Besides in all my years i realize most of these mngmt/sups dont actually know what they are doing or the implications of what they are doing make them think about it and educate themselves before they get everyone in trouble.

 

[island1fox]

Falsifying time on diad or anywhere else is dishonest and both hourly and management should understand this and pay the penalty for violation.
I was both hourly and management in my career. Take a step back on this discussion for just a moment.
If you are in a building where the preload is always wrapped and the air is on time and the car doors are "closed" --Management has the right to inform you that the AM time --pcm plus full pre-trip should be no more than ten minutes.
With bubblehead's remarks --I disagree --this is not a game --if mgmt instructs you to attend the pcm, pretrip, check your first stop and leave --then you do that. If it is necessary to "sort" your load everyday --you would have to do it "on road" --As a driver you should not have to live with a poor load or dirty windshields --but if I was still in Management --I would honestly work with the people causing bubbleheads problems --and after his problems were resolved --would expect him along with the other drivers to make every honest attempt to be out of the building in ten .Also I do not want drivers to work "off" the clock.
As Danny and others have stated --do not falsify your diad ---push comes to shove --both you and the management person could be liable for discharge.
If some idiot management person is insisting you do this --as danny said -get it in writing --or have the union involved immediately --if not --other hourly witnesses !! Do not live with this situation --bring it to a point of resolution immediately.

 

[Integrity]

Dannyboy is right... just because someone instructs you to do something wrong, it doesn't take the blame off yourself when doing it. You are still responsible for your own actions, which in this case is a dishonest action that could result in discipline.

That same supervisor could also instruct you to rob a bank, but guess what... you would still be found responsible for your own actions, not the supervisor.

chopstic,
I agree with you here. dannyboy is right! There have been far to many instances where UPS employees have committed dishonest acts in the area of timecards and records under the illusion that the "work as directed" umbrella will protect them. This is no excuse nor is it protection for this dishonest act.
Sincerely,
I

 

[Thumbster]

It usually takes me at least 15 minutes (from the time I punch in) to attend the PCM, finish loading my truck and pull out 2-3 misloads, pull out of the building, and pre trip my truck. Even on our preload's best day, 10 minutes would be hard to do. I think most of us here agree that we should input the time that we actually leave regardless of a dishonest instruction. I would rather be disciplined for not working as instructed than be fired for a cardinal. I do have a similar concern... My original center manager instructed me to enter my leave/return times as my vehicle's wheels left/entered UPS property. His successor told me that I had to enter my return time after fueling and unloading all of my NDA onto our building's air belt. Which one is correct? He also told me that I was allowed 7 minutes of PM time, which is a fairly liberal amount of time to turn in paperwork and clerked pkgs, but not enough to fuel and unload all of my NDA in addition... Are these "rules" in writing anywhere??? Is there a nation wide standard? District standard???

 

[over9five]

As I've said, they changed the point at which you hit leave/return several times. I don't see what difference it makes, as long as everyone does it the same. You should have the center manager himself clarify this in an open PCM. Everyone gets the same info, everyone does it the same.

 

[toonertoo]

I understand all these points of accuracy. Ive questioned things before. If my center manager says leave bldg time is when I pull away from the doc, I dont need it in writing, everyone at the pcm was told the same. I still do my pretrip, etc in the lot, BUT I have to eat that time as it is in my on road time. Its just another numbers game.

 

[rocket man]

just load your car the best you can i have same problem i just place pkgs in car check NDA,S DVIR WALK AROUND AND GO IF IT Takes 20 MINUTES SO BE IT........... They will change there ways befor you do. Just smile and do your job . good luck.

 

[soberups]

Here is an honest question.

If they are so wound up about being spoon-fed a make believe number...why not just program the DIAD to show the 10 minutes of AM time automatically?

I'm being serious here. Its a simple solution. Remove the human factor entirely, and program the equipment to provide the desired statistic. The drivers can do their jobs honestly, and the management team gets to look at the number they want to see on the report. Its a win/win.

 

[toonertoo]

Here is an honest question.

If they are so wound up about being spoon-fed a make believe number...why not just program the DIAD to show the 10 minutes of AM time automatically?

I'm being serious here. Its a simple solution. Remove the human factor entirely, and program the equipment to provide the desired statistic. The drivers can do their jobs honestly, and the management team gets to look at the number they want to see on the report. Its a win/win.

Quit trying to be logical sober. Its UPS

 

[Just_another_day_at_work]

So I checked the others AM time more than half of the drivers got exactly 10 min in (after a 5 min PCM). So I am guessing I wasn't the only one who is been instructed or got bugged about this. I have to write a statement on Tuesday for the LP, that what happened. I wouldn't mind to put the real time in, but for now I want to see if the Sup will get a talk or not and I want to be instructed to put my real leaving the building time.