22.3 Facts/Origins

[Fredless]

I know which thread you are talking about and that guy PM'd me thinking we were in the same local, but we are not. We have sort of the same situation here - we have one part time steward, and he is a shifter. Well when we go to settle our grievances, he's always extremely busy and then the center managers will go home and it never gets settled, at least for the clerks. This is because during reload, the ECS clerks are part of the center management, not part of the hub management like the preload ECS clerks. Weird.

However, I get around this by filing with the 22.3 steward in the mornings, I just slip my grievances in his locker and he always calls me for details. I've been very lucky to befriend him in the past and I've had to come in sometimes in the mornings when he's there to talk to him and settle some issues, but I don't mind this. Some of the ECS clerks however, cant do this due to day jobs. One of the clerks is going through this now - basically had to settle his own grievance (with the guidance of the steward) with the center manager himself because the center manager would just go home before the shifter had time after the sort was down to meet with him.

I don't have any online links for the contract, sorry.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I know which thread you are talking about and that guy PM'd me thinking we were in the same local, but we are not. We have sort of the same situation here - we have one part time steward, and he is a shifter. Well when we go to settle our grievances, he's always extremely busy and then the center managers will go home and it never gets settled, at least for the clerks. This is because during reload, the ECS clerks are part of the center management, not part of the hub management like the preload ECS clerks. Weird.

However, I get around this by filing with the 22.3 steward in the mornings, I just slip my grievances in his locker and he always calls me for details. I've been very lucky to befriend him in the past and I've had to come in sometimes in the mornings when he's there to talk to him and settle some issues, but I don't mind this. Some of the ECS clerks however, cant do this due to day jobs. One of the clerks is going through this now - basically had to settle his own grievance (with the guidance of the steward) with the center manager himself because the center manager would just go home before the shifter had time after the sort was down to meet with him.

I don't have any online links for the contract, sorry.

Our ECS clerks, whether or reload or preload, are all hourly and union jobs. We only have one steward for the whole building but so far that's been enough. The steward is a driver.

 

[gandydancer]

I don't have any online links for the contract, sorry.

I don't seem to be communicating clearly. I HAVE links. I thought YOU might find them useful. The National contract is at the TDU site in both web page and pdf form. The former is good for quoting, the latter for searching. Or would be if it weren't(isn't?) buggy. And I found a non-buggy pdf version on the NABER download page...

I have access to maybe three stewards, but generally drop off my grievance at the local if it gets to that. Every once in awhile the BA shows up for a meet with the district HR and they run a bunch of workers through for "pre-panel" hearing of grievance and discipline issues, with managers called in as appropriate (I think). If they (BA/HR) don't agree the union has the option of creating a real grievance and taking it to first level...

I say "real grievance" because whatever you write is merely information for the Local. The grieving worker isn't really a party to the grievance procedure... One thing that means is that the timliness deadlines apply to the notifications and filing BY THE UNION. If you can get things settled between you, maybe the steward, and your manager, all well and good. But none of that substitutes for your BA notifying HR in a timely manner. If that doesn't happen you have no real recourse.

 

[mittam]

I don't seem to be communicating clearly. I HAVE links. I thought YOU might find them useful. The National contract is at the TDU site in both web page and pdf form. The former is good for quoting, the latter for searching. Or would be if it weren't buggy. And I found a non-buggy pdf version on the NABER download page...

I have access to maybe three stewards, but generally drop off my grievance at the local if it gets to that. Every once in awhile the BA shows up for a meet with the district HR and they run a bunch of workers through for "pre-panel" hearing of grievance and discipline issues, with managers called in as appropriate (I think). If they (BA/HR) don't agree the union has the option of creating a real grievance and taking it to first level...

I say "real grievance" because whatever you write is merely information for the Local. The grieving worker isn't really a party to the grievance procedure...

All of this is wrong! You part-timers are being screwed, the combo jobs should go your way as they were defined in '97. The union and company have both chosen though to only honor seniority by the building you are in. Thus saying the full-time driver with 25 years in ( or whatever ) that is aching in his knees and back can take all those jobs. That means yes there is a full-time job opening created for package car driving so why are the part-timers crying. I agree with all your thoughts on this matter the ones who want to be full time but could not handle pkg driving are penalized to suffer thru being PT for a career. Hopefully the APWA can address this issue and get clear cut job descriptions for all the combo jobs and also an eligibility for them, the union serves whom it pleases, especially ( ever notice ) those that cause the most fuss. Stick in there when the APWA takes over we will get plain language on these issues it is time for the PT voices to be heard and a vote for the APWA is the biggest voice you can have. See the website www.parcelworkers.com. There is a part-timers presentation send me a private message and I will get it for all those wanting it.

 

[gandydancer]

Read your contract ANY AND ALL fulltime work will be offered to Full Time employees first based on seniority...

Does the contract actually say this? Where? I only know of a couple drivers who came back into the building as 22.3's, out of dozens of 22.3's...There are a number of 22.2's, tho...

 

[Fredless]

Sorry Gandy, I read it incorrectly.

So far at night, I have found that out of the 10 people I have asked, 8 of them were asked by the local to join but that was it and 2 of us had to go to the union to join. So thats a good thing. However, all 10 of us that I have asked in reload, which is a small number, feel the same about the 22.3 combo jobs. Hopefully I can get at least 20 part timers to show up with me to April's union meeting. The apathy of the part timers HAS to stop. This is our own fault really because we don't show up to the union meetings like the full timers do.

This is going to cost me around 100 dollars a month on average to go to the union meetings (by missing out on saturday air driving), but if it means changing for the long run, I'll do it.

 

[Fredless]

Our ECS clerks, whether or reload or preload, are all hourly and union jobs. We only have one steward for the whole building but so far that's been enough. The steward is a driver.

Yes, so are ours...I was merely saying that in preload, the clerks are handled differently. They are HUB employees like the preloaders/sorters/unloaders are. Meaning, their pay, direct managers come out of the hub office.

The reload ECS clerks are center employees like the drivers are. The hub management at night could careless about me, all of my orders come from the center manager like the drivers and my pay issues are resloved with him and his team. We have to get approval from our center team before we help another center in our hub out as well because our pay comes out of the center's budget NOT the hubs.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

All of this is wrong! You part-timers are being screwed, the combo jobs should go your way as they were defined in '97. The union and company have both chosen though to only honor seniority by the building you are in. Thus saying the full-time driver with 25 years in ( or whatever ) that is aching in his knees and back can take all those jobs. That means yes there is a full-time job opening created for package car driving so why are the part-timers crying. I agree with all your thoughts on this matter the ones who want to be full time but could not handle pkg driving are penalized to suffer thru being PT for a career. Hopefully the APWA can address this issue and get clear cut job descriptions for all the combo jobs and also an eligibility for them, the union serves whom it pleases, especially ( ever notice ) those that cause the most fuss. Stick in there when the APWA takes over we will get plain language on these issues it is time for the PT voices to be heard and a vote for the APWA is the biggest voice you can have. There is a part-timers presentation send me a private message and I will get it for all those wanting it.

One thing that caught my eye on parcelworkers is that they plan to have "pods" where all the outlying centers will be grouped with the hubs. Seniority will no longer only be by building. Example: I work in a small "extended center" about 35 minutes away from a hub and can only bid on full-time job openings in my building. The "pods" would allow me to bid on full-time openings in the hub as well. So instead of each building having there own seperate seniority lists there would be one list for all the buildings in the "pod."

 

[Fredless]

I actually like that idea. It makes it easier for part timers to get a full time driving job if they wish. I know in some of the small centers around here, it takes around 8-9 years to get into driving.

 

[Braveheart]

They were created to make more full time jobs. If a package driver takes one then you can fill his job vacancy. Some of us old timers need these new jobs to actually make it to retirement.

 

[Braveheart]

What IF the part timer has a bad knee, or asthma something that physically hinders him or her from full time driving?
What IF the part timer can load a trailer just fine, preload etc..but she is too short to be a full time driver?
What about the older women who are clerks etc..that would love a combo job but they physically cannot be a driver?
What about the people that have had DUI's or speeding tickets in the past and they can't be a driver?

Just because of those reasons, and they aren't "tough enough" or they've made mistakes in the past, they should be banned from EVER holding a full time job at UPS? Is that what you're saying?

As for the DUI and citation people oh well. And for the rest I feel bad but why should the part timers get a combo job and have a 30 year career while a 20 year driver with a bad back or knee be faced with losing everything after all those years of hard work. UPS owes them as do we all. I worked for over 6 years as a part timer and now over 9 years as a full timer. Trust me when I say that the full time job is way more stressful. We have had older men and women drive full time and there is always management to consider.

 

[Braveheart]

In my hub the hierarchy goes parttime, 22.3, fulltime inside, package car, feeder. The precedent seems to be here that you can bid up into a higher classification (parttimer going 22.3, or 22.3 going into package car), but you cannot bid down to a lower classification(package car driver going 22.3).

That is not fair that you are stuck in package.

 

[gandydancer]

They were created to make more full time jobs. If a package driver takes one then you can fill his job vacancy. Some of us old timers need these new jobs to actually make it to retirement.

The first sentcnce of Article 22, Section 3 reads: "The parties agree that providing PART-TIME EMPLOYEES the opportunity to become full-time employees is a priority of this Agreement."

I don't mind broken down drivers bidding for inside jobs to make retirement. Their seniority is good in my book. But it's been suggested on this thread that in some locations 22.3s that open up are offered first to any full time hourly employee of no matter what seniority before they are offered to part time employees of greater seniority, and that they are being taken by low-in-progression drivers with significantly less time in than part timers who want the job. I've asked before what contract language is used to justify the assertion that 22.3 jobs should be offered first to full timers. Be specific.

 

[Fredless]

As for the DUI and citation people oh well. And for the rest I feel bad but why should the part timers get a combo job and have a 30 year career while a 20 year driver with a bad back or knee be faced with losing everything after all those years of hard work. UPS owes them as do we all. I worked for over 6 years as a part timer and now over 9 years as a full timer. Trust me when I say that the full time job is way more stressful. We have had older men and women drive full time and there is always management to consider.

Thats why I'm going to do everything in my power to get the part timers in my hub to vote people with your attitude out...and we can't do that unless the part timers start to care about their own union. Besides, the drivers that are senior and beat up like you describe can't usually afford to take a paycut like that. Going from 80k or so a year back to 40k is a big paycut. JUNIOR drivers are usually the ones that are taking these jobs from us! They don't suffer a paycut hardly.

And if thats your attitude on the part timers not even getting a chance, I don't feel sorry for you full timers getting hurt. You know the stipulations of the job and thats why your pay is nearly double (yearly) of a 22.3 inside/inside job and you also get tips from customers etc.. You also have the chance when you are "beat up" to go into feeders. So stick with your own philosophy - do your time and get into feeders. The 22.3's will never have a chance to make that kind of money.

 

[pkgdriver]

You also have the chance when you are "beat up" to go into feeders.

My center does?? News to me. Wait till I let everybody know tommorow.

 

[Fredless]

Welp, I'll take the "that sucks" attitude of most of the full timers have. You should have applied at a larger hub then.

 

[lilyky]

that is the way it is at my hub the jobs where created for part timer but if they bid off of a22.3 then all part timers and full timers can bid with the job going to the one with the highest seniority