3 NAVY Seals charged for actions.

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by The Other Side, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    3 Navy seals were charged for misconduct after they captured a man the military says ordered the capture, burning and killing of 4 blackwater "armed" personel in iraq.

    "Objective Amber" was a secret mission that monitored Ahmed Hashim Abed until his ultimate capture.

    When captured, the seals "alledgedly" beat him and he had the physical signs to prove it. When it was reported to the commander of the seals, he forwarded the complaint up the chain of command and an investigation was started.

    Initially, the seals involved denied the claims. They had a chance to take a "non-judicial" punishment for the action, but THEY CHOSE to be court-martialed.

    The reason for not accepting the "non-judicial" punishment was to AVOID admitting guilt. Instead, THEY chose to be "court-martialed".

    They were charged with:

    Matthew McCabe, a Special Operations Petty Officer Second Class (SO-2), is facing three charges: dereliction of performance of duty for willfully failing to safeguard a detainee, making a false official statement, and assault.

    Petty Officer Jonathan Keefe, SO-2, is facing charges of dereliction of performance of duty and making a false official statement.

    Petty Officer Julio Huertas, SO-1, faces those same charges and an additional charge of impediment of an investigation.

    I find it rediculous that FAUX news runs the story and claims that the MILITARY is chosing to court martial the seals. They even brought a republican congressman on to repeat the claim.

    The truth of the matter is simple. They captured the man, they roughed him up, they had a chance to admit and take a lesser punishment but they decided to LIE, INTERFERE in an INVESTIGATION and then on their own accord, decided to obtain lawyers and asked for the court martial.

    Now, maybe given the record of court martials during the BUSH administration they feel they have a better chance of getting away with it.

    Or, maybe they believe they can "play up" to the sympathys of the american public.

    Either way, this isnt the BUSH administration anymore.

    I could care less whether they beat him or not, but I do care that these seals showed a lack of integrity in their performance of their duty.

    When they began to lie and fabricate events, thats when they crossed the line.

    Only one of these men is being charged with an assault, the others are charged with other offenses.

    I am sure plea deals will emerge, and they will turn on each other as in every other military court martial in the last 8 years.

    :greedy:
     
  2. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Did this story satisfy an anti military craving you had?

     
  3. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Well TOS maybe you could tell us, from the bottomless well of military experience you draw from, how you would have handled this?
     
  4. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    He would handle it the Obama way and have a beer summit. :wink2:
     
  5. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    You seem to want to convict these guys before they have their trial. There is a simple (and good) reason for choosing a court martial over NJP, and you mentioned it in your post. Accepting NJP means admitting guilt and waiving your right to a trial by jury, and it can also be a career ender particularly in a case like this. Choosing a court martial simply means you will have the opportunity to fight the charges against you in court. Keep in mind that if they are found guilty the punishment is likely to be far harsher than it would have been under NJP.

    You have no idea whether these guys are guilty or not, and neither do we. How about we give them their day in court before we hang them?
     
  6. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    +1 on your rep.:peaceful:
     
  7. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    +97 on your rep
     
  8. grgrcr88

    grgrcr88 No It's not green grocer!


    Are you related to Upstate???
     
  9. You are absolutely correct; and I appreciate your Post and those that support it!!

    Unless you've been there, you have no idea what the atmosphere and energy was in place at the time of the "Event".

    I fought the Cold War; shot on Soviets; hit one or two......That's what we're asked to do in the Military...without consideration.
     
  10. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    poor wittle bad guy got a black eye (Abed)..... I feel so bad for him
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  11. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Did any of you actually READ what I wrote in my original post??

    Seems like many of you missed the "point", but then again, your FAUX viewers, so if it isnt distorted, you may not understand it.

    JONEs, you asked:"You seem to want to convict these guys before they have their trial."

    Where did I convict them? I stated simply, that after an investigation, they had a choice, either "fess up" and take Non-judicial punishment (whatever that may be) or request "to be court martialed" and face a trial.

    Indeed, one way or the other, some form of punishment is coming, and not for beating the suspect, but FOR LYING and IMPEDING and investigation.

    This was the point of the post, FAUX news distorted this story on air and made it out like these seals were being court martialed by the military for beating this suspect, and thats not the case.

    The charges are very clear.

    These seals CHOSE to be court martialed.

    Whether they hit the guy or not, thats not my concern. What is my concern is that our soldiers, no matter what branch, rank or outfit they are with, represent the United States of America with honor, dignity and integrity.

    And guess what Jones, so does our goverment.

    The military has an obligation to hold these seals to the letter of the law, you and the others may find some satisfaction in knowing they beat someone of muslim faith (before he was CONVICTED of anything) but anyone who convicts them before a trial is a loser?

    I dont get it, the hypocrisy is astounding.

    Jones, these seals can chose their own poison, and they did. I could care less if they beat the guy (like I posted) , what I dont like is the MISREPRESENTATION on FAUX news.

    They had represented that it was the MILITARY that chose to court martial them, and not a CHOICE by the seals.

    This was ultimately the point of the post.

    :peaceful:
     
  12. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Sorry Comrade TOS, but you forgot to mention some known facts about this case; The charges did not come from within the Navy Seal community, the court martial will be heard & tried by other Navy Seals and these sailors are questioning the charges because they caught the guy and handed him over to whom ?
    Another point I would like to ask you comrade, how can you expect our troops to win a military conflict with lawyers making all the rules of engagement ?
     
  13. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.


    Do you think he (or anyone) would admit it if they were?:wink2:
     
  14. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    DAMN! I hate it when people get left out of the memo!
    :wink2:
     
  15. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member



    Support The SEALs: Drop the Unfair and Outrageous Charges NOW!
     
  16. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    I did not see the fox news story, so I can't address that. I'll take your word that they misrepresented the sequence of legal events. I'm not sure that you understand the implications of NJP vs a court martial or why the SEALS chose one over the other. NJP (non judicial punishment) in exactly what it says. The unit commander (one man) conducts the investigation, pronounces guilt, and hands out punishment. There is no equivalent for this in the civilian court system. All service members have the right to refuse NJP if they feel they are being unfairly punished. At that time the commander will make a decision as to whether or not to pursue a court martial (it's not automatic), so in that sense the fox news story was correct - the military chose to court martial these men after they refused NJP (as is their right).
    You said you are not convicting these guys before their trial, yet in your first post you said this:
    "The truth of the matter is simple. They captured the man, they roughed him up, they had a chance to admit and take a lesser punishment but they decided to LIE, INTERFERE in an INVESTIGATION"
    How can you possibly know the truth of the matter before these guys have had a chance to defend themselves in a court of law?
     
  17. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    Let's see here: the Military sends special operators people they train to participate in covert operations,with all manner of weapons,and the possibility of extreme violance happening during ther missions risking their lifes for corp,country,and one another. They go after someone their officers have identified as a terrorist and a killer who gets physically hurt but not killed during his capture and you want to complain about it .They should have the right to due process.
    These are young men trained to go in harms way up against people who would think nothing of killing them. You tell me how do you turn it off.
     
  18. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll


    Stewie,

    One thing that people seem confused over is the facts. This isnt a case about trained seals performing their duties while capturing a wanted man and in the process he gets a fat lip and bruses to his abdomen.

    Those at FOX and in the video AV8 posted, distort the facts of the case.

    These seals are charged with lying and interfering with an investigation.

    The suspect was already captured and in control of the seals. As he was being transferred to Iraqi authorities is when he was alledgedly beaten by the seals.

    FAUX and the republicans want to suggest and those listening jump to the conclusion that he was beaten while being captured, and thats not the case.

    The suspect was controlled, his hands and feet bound and he was aledgedly hit by ONE seal while in custody. The other 2 seals have been charged with trying to COVER it up.

    Charges:
    Matthew McCabe, a Special Operations Petty Officer Second Class (SO-2), is facing three charges: dereliction of performance of duty for willfully failing to safeguard a detainee, making a false official statement, and assault.

    Petty Officer Jonathan Keefe, SO-2, is facing charges of dereliction of performance of duty and making a false official statement.

    Petty Officer Julio Huertas, SO-1, faces those same charges and an additional charge of impediment of an investigation.

    Lets stick with the facts of the case.

    You posted this "Let's see here: the Military sends special operators people they train to participate in covert operations,with all manner of weapons,and the possibility of extreme violance happening during ther missions risking their lifes for corp,country,and one another"

    Do they also train them to LIE? Do they train them to provide FALSE statements? Do they train them to assault prisoners after they are in custody and pose NO threat? Do they teach them to be LESS than professional while performing their duties?


    I dont think so and neither does the military.


    Hopefully, youve actually read the charges vs. forming an opinion based on the propaganda video AV8 posted.


    That video was rediculous given the facts of the case.


    Indeed, these seals should have due process, an investigation was conducted and the military found them to have lied and interfering with an investigation. They were then charged with that.


    They had a choice, face NJP and maybe, a simple punishment would have arose, or THEY could ASK to be court martialed and face a trial.


    They chose to be court martialed, NOT the military going after them and bringing them to a court martial as is alledged by FAUX news and those in the right wing who speak about it on FAUX news.


    THe military simply conducted an investigation after a complaint was registered by the Iraqi authorites who recieved the prisoner when the seals transferred him.

    They had a choice to face NJP "captains mast" which could have spared them any jail time, but they could have been discharged from the military.


    Instead, the three chose a court martial, which by rules, makes each of the defendants equal and all three will face the same punishment if convicted (1 Year in military confinement, reduction of pay for one by 2/3rds and discharged for bad conduct)


    Even though only one seal is charged with an assault, and the other 2 with providing false statements, because they chose a court martial, they will all face the same punishment.


    In this case, after the conclusion of the military investigation, they would have been better off in the NJP.


    Now they are playing on the medias help (FAUX news) to draw up sympathy from americans.


    But I ask you this, why is it, that there is a segment of americans who will support military soldiers who lie?

    The suspect, Ahmed Hashim Abed is only suspected of giving some order which ended up costlng the lives of 4 armed blackwater security guards, but he hasnt been proven guilty either.

    Those who express support for the seals have already convicted this guy even though not a shred of evidence has been established proving he did anything.

    Lets see how the case works out for the seals when they face trial in January 2010.

    Until then, expect the right wing to try and gain sympathy for the seals by playing on your patriotism and distorting the facts.

    :peaceful:
     
  19. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Who can blame the Seals for lying? I'd be afraid of retribution from my Muslim commander in chief too!

    And if it were the other way around (Seals captured by Al Qaeda), I suppose the beheadings would be perfectly acceptable. But, oh the horror of a bloody nose! I think the Seals showed too much restraint.
     
  20. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    The captured terrorist had a bloody lip. Meanwhile the deaths of our young soldiers multiply and you are going to complain and approve of the seals being punished because they gave the terrorist a BLOODY LIP. The orginal post and so called political correctness it calls for makes me so made I cannot see straight.