5 seeing habits

[soberups]

YOU GET MUFFINS!
geez all we get is coffee and dounuts...
good points all sober,but what if you got fired for not knowing them?
sure you may get your job back but at what cost? its easier to learn them.parakeets may be a bad analogy,they look left right left all the time.
I guess they figure you will retain most of it and it will decrease accidents.If they push us on it,I will memorize it.very creative post though

Nobody is going to get fired for not reciting a commentary. Nowhere in the contract does it state that rote memorization of buzzwords is a condition of employment. Any supervisor that makes such a statement is ignorant of the contract and is probably under pressure from his superiors to "look good" for some impending audit. Fear makes otherwise good people say and do stupid things.

 

[soberups]

Our on road supervisors were passing out " Safety by choice not by chance" papers that we were to sign. Promising that we would learn word for word 5 seeing habbits, 10 point commentary, 8 keys for lifting and lowering.

We had the same thing going on here...I told my sup that I would be more than happy to sign it just as soon as UPS signed an agreement to retrofit all older package cars with 3 point seat belts and power steering. Like the slogan says..."safety by choice, not by chance." For some reason, my sup didnt seem very enthusiastic about my idea.

 

[RockdaleEddie]

I can tell you the 5 seing habits because that was hammered into us during orientation. The 10 point commentary list was not taught as such when I was hired in the mid 80's. We were taught the elements of it and I know them all, but I cannot categorize them as part of a list, and I really do not care. What I care about is incorporating those elements into my driving, so I can drive as safely as possible during my day.

Management measures themselves in part as to what they can recite verbatim, not by actually doing physical work.

It is the same as everything else at this place the past few years. It is not about being safe, it is about being able to recite words. It is not about providing service, it is all about what the reports say about providing service.

How is that talking on a conference call is work for them, but if we are not out humping packages anything else is not for us?

God bless 'em if they want to send me home for not being able to recite verbatim all that. Pay me to study that wordage as part of my day and I will regurgitate it for them.

It sucks having a Manager like I have. He makes me want to be abe to recite the smoke an mirror safety game they play because I know it comes back to him if I dont. I just leave and pretend Im on the phone when they show up.

 

[RockdaleEddie]

Anyhow he had 30 plus years in and retirement papers submitted. He probably figured 30+ years of being f__ked by Big Brown; he would throw a little back at em. Needless to say he was reinstated and then retired.

I'm sure glad you blocked out the "uck" So no one would be offended.I suppose a less graphic word would not have worked?

Center Managers do receive bonuses on how well their centers do in these Ketter audits.

Center managers do not get bonus they do get their jobs threatened and they do get demotions when their people do not know the information.

thats a lie!

 

[UPS Lifer]

Given time and an adequate supply of crackers, you can train a parakeet to recite the 10 point commentary. In UPS's eyes, that parakeet is now a safe driver. In the real world, maybe not. Perhaps we should just train some parakeets to recite the commentary for the Keter auditors. It would be a win/win for everyone...the "Safety Committee" could make easy money feeding the parakeets, the parakeets would get fat and happy, the Keter auditors would get to mark "100%" on their clipboards, and those of us who are actually going out in the real world and getting the packages delivered would be spared the irritation of having to continually recite stupid acronyms in exchange for muffins.

Point of clarification.... just because you can recite the 10 Point Commentary or any of the other safety methods does not mean that UPS thinks you are a safe driver or employee! You have to be able to demonstrate what you learn.

I understand that a lot of drivers get upset and damn angry because some management folks use these tools as hammers instead of just what they are additional tools to help you stay safe.

This reminds me of when I would take my kids to the doctor and every step they would be kicking and screaming that they didn't want to go!

I think a better analogy is comparing the 10 Point Commentary to a flu shot. You hate to go to the doctor to get it but it may help you minimize the affects of a terrible flu once it starts working.

I guess I just have to laugh some times at all the negative energy that is expended over something that is designed (if used and applied properly) to help the driver stay injury and accident free!!

 

[Storm723]

Management measures themselves in part as to what they can recite verbatim, not by actually doing physical work.

PAS'd out...

I understand what you are saying but kind of take affense to it. I am a preload sup however, was a loader and unloader prior to this. However, I chose to advance my career within the "UPS company". I wasn't interested in being a driver, b/c as I mentioned before I hate traffic. That doesn't make me less of an employee. It certainly doen't make me better than the loader/unloader. I have done the work (not of a driver) that I ask of my loaders. I certianly would not ask them to do anything I haven't done myself. I actually have respect for my loaders because I know how hard the work is and can be.

As far as the KETER/ OSHA audits and the memorization of SWM techniques and saftey methods:

I agree that the memorization verbatim of all of these KETER/ OSHA regulations is/ are rediculous!

But here is what I just learned recently which is kindo of interesting:

KETER is a company UPS hired to audit them. Reason: to avoid OSHA regulating UPS. In any normal OSHA environment, OSHA regulates the company/organization themselves. They come in walk around, audit the environment, the people, and the safety of that specific company/ organization.

UPS being the size they are requests OSHA does not regulate them. They have to prove every year or how ever often that they have the ability to regulate themselves. So they pay KETER to come in and audit, to keep them up to standard and OSHA compliant.

In order for OSHA to allow UPS to remain self regulating, they have set requirements on training safety, as well as other facets of OSHA compliancy having to do with such things as HAZMATS, Equipment Maintenance etc.

Anyway, although I agree with parts of your statement, I think where ever you may travel or apply there will be things you should know or take the time to learn on your own, as long as the information is provided to you. This not only enhances your ability to do your job safely, but more effectively.

Do I think these items need to be memorized word for word? no, but I do believe you should have the information at your fingertips should you require it.


If you wanted to play Pro Football, the coaches are going to provide you with the plays...and then it is up to you to memorize them on your own time so you can do your part as effectivly as possible.

I hope that makes sense....and sorry I rambled...lol. I mean no disrespect to you personally, but wanted to express my thoughts.

 

[Storm723]

Point of clarification.... just because you can recite the 10 Point Commentary or any of the other safety methods does not mean that UPS thinks you are a safe driver or employee! You have to be able to demonstrate what you learn.

I understand that a lot of drivers get upset and damn angry because some management folks use these tools as hammers instead of just what they are additional tools to help you stay safe.

This reminds me of when I would take my kids to the doctor and every step they would be kicking and screaming that they didn't want to go!

I think a better analogy is comparing the 10 Point Commentary to a flu shot. You hate to go to the doctor to get it but it may help you minimize the affects of a terrible flu once it starts working.

I guess I just have to laugh some times at all the negative energy that is expended over something that is designed (if used and applied properly) to help the driver stay injury and accident free!!

Agree..

 

[Bubblehead]

Looking on UPSers.com every now and then I see our districts accidents and I've yet to see an "unavoidable" next to one. Amazing how UPS creates a few safety guildlines and all of a sudden everything that can happen to you throughout the course of a day is avoidable. These safety people at UPS are the biggest bunch of monday-morning quarterbacks I've ever seen in my life. According to them World War 2 was avoidable as well.

I agree! It gets really old watching these managerial morons sitting in their glass offices with their 20/20 hindsight throwing stones at employees who work in the real word.

 

[soberups]

I guess I just have to laugh some times at all the negative energy that is expended over something that is designed (if used and applied properly) to help the driver stay injury and accident free!!

It (the commentary) is not designed to help the driver stay injury and accident free. It is designed...to help UPS pass an audit. Nothing more, nothing less.
A company that truly cared about the safety of its drivers...would not make a business decision to dispatch them in vehicles from which 3-point seat belts and power steering had been removed to save money.
I'm simply asking for some truth in advertising here. Pretending to "care" about my safety thru word games, acronyms and asessments is quite frankly an insult to my intelligence, and I dont take well to that. I can accept the fact that UPS does not value my life enough to retrofit a vehicle with a 3 point belt. What I CANT accept...is when they try to pretend otherwise.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

It is the APPEARANCE of safety that they are looking for. If UPS truly believed in safety, the P-500 package cars would never have been allowed on the road. I don't know about other places, but in our little shack, they will put junk out on the road on avon day and not worry about lights not working, springs broken, and so on. And yes, I have witnessed management removing red tags and putting a vehicle on line. Safety is a punchline around here.

 

[teamsterdan]

having served in the army memorizing "stupid " was a way of life.......have to admit for a while I did like many of the post's here, refused to sign stuff, memeroize crap etc......I've since changed my technique and now can quote chapter and verse of specific articles of the contract, and preface my verbal statements to mgt. and auditors when asked w/ "although I am not obligated to do this....." I then move to the position of "parade rest" and recite them as axed............I also only address mgt. as needed, and respond to the majority of their questions w/ yes boss, no boss, and I'll get rite to that boss..........they basically leave me alone now........

 

[UPS Lifer]

It (the commentary) is not designed to help the driver stay injury and accident free. It is designed...to help UPS pass an audit. Nothing more, nothing less.
A company that truly cared about the safety of its drivers...would not make a business decision to dispatch them in vehicles from which 3-point seat belts and power steering had been removed to save money.
I'm simply asking for some truth in advertising here. Pretending to "care" about my safety thru word games, acronyms and asessments is quite frankly an insult to my intelligence, and I dont take well to that. I can accept the fact that UPS does not value my life enough to retrofit a vehicle with a 3 point belt. What I CANT accept...is when they try to pretend otherwise.

Soberups! Nobody is insulting your intelligence! the 10 Point Commentary was originally designed for a supervisor to be able to train a driver and cover everything in a step by step fashion. It was actually part of a supervisor's training. So, you now have the benefit of being able to learn the info that was designed to train a driver in the first place!!! Imagine that!

I am telling you this from experience. I was an OR Supv back in 1984-85. I was required to learn the commentary so that I could train a driver. The company has passed the info on to you directly. A lot of the stuff I learned as a supervisor was never taught to me as a driver. It kind of pissed me off!
I would have been a better driver!

As for the 3 point harness.... I would agree with you. This is something that will evolve and eventually all package cars will have them. You may be be absolutely correct in your assumption that it has to do with money.
But your intelligence should also tell you that if the company has a severely injured (or worse) driver, there is a huge cost associated with that.

So ... get it right! Let there be no mistake......The company does care about your safety because your safe driving or lack of it will cost the company big money in the long run.

Years ago - supervisors did not have a jump seat to sit in.... we just went through the window if there was an accident. It wasn't until the late 1980's that jump seat frames were added. At least you have a seat belt!!!! LOL! They finally added jump seats to all vehicles.

Sometimes you make assumptions and post like you know it to be a fact....
Be careful... just because you don't have a safety belt that you think you should have doesn't mean nobody cares about your safety. I certainly do!

Also - when you and other posters start questioning how the money is being spent remember that you have a pretty solid job because the company is making money. The airlines are not in the same shape are they? At one point they had a pretty solid job also! Not anymore....

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.... and if you don't like the food find another chef that cooks the type of food you like.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

I feel much safer now. Warm and fuzzy too.

 

[soberups]

As for the 3 point harness.... I would agree with you. This is something that will evolve and eventually all package cars will have them. You may be be absolutely correct in your assumption that it has to do with money.

We have p-1000 135-xxx series built in 1995 that had the 3-point belt deleted. Identical 136-numbered cars of 1996 vintage do have the 3-point belt...and I believe that this was the year that 3-point belts became mandatory per the DOT.
Some of these vehicles will remain in service for at least 20 more years. The fact that UPS refuses to retrofit them says a lot more about its "commitment to safety" than any commentary or acronym ever will.

 

[soberups]

But your intelligence should also tell you that if the company has a severely injured (or worse) driver, there is a huge cost associated with that.

A high-seniority driver who is horribly injured...or worse...in a head-on collision can be replaced with a younger driver making $10 an hour less. The huge cost of any medical expenses will be covered by UPS's insurance, or the insurance of the driver who hit him. Either way, UPS is $$ ahead of the game.

 

[soberups]

Years ago - supervisors did not have a jump seat to sit in.... we just went through the window if there was an accident. It wasn't until the late 1980's that jump seat frames were added. At least you have a seat belt!!!! LOL! They finally added jump seats to all vehicles.

Which should speak volumes about how much the company values its own management people.
Jump seats were not installed here in Oregon until about 1991, when a state law was passed mandating seat belt use. Prior to that, the life of the pasenger was simply not deemed to be worthy of the expense of a jump seat.
When it comes to safety, UPS's only concern is bare minimum compliance with the law to shield itself from legal liability. It is the threat of OSHA fines that has triggered the Keter audits, not any genuine concern for its people.
I can accept that. Its part of the reality of working for UPS. You dont give a damn about my well being, and thats OK. Just stop trying to pretend that you do by playing silly word games and handing out cookies. I am an adult, please treat me like one.

 

[soberups]

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.... and if you don't like the food find another chef that cooks the type of food you like.

I will stop biting when you guys stop trying to cram bullshiite down my throat.

 

[soberups]

Be careful... just because you don't have a safety belt that you think you should have doesn't mean nobody cares about your safety. I certainly do!

I believe you. Unfortunately, your "concern" isnt going to keep my head from going through the windshield. Neither will a 100% score on the next Keter audit.

 

[UPS Lifer]

I believe you. Unfortunately, your "concern" isnt going to keep my head from going through the windshield. Neither will a 100% score on the next Keter audit.

But, if you drive safely, using all the tools and methods you have learned over the years you should never have to worry about going through a windshield.

Don't you ever wonder how all the drivers did it before you? There was a time there was no seat belt in the vehicle. How did we manage back then?

 

[UPS Lifer]

A high-seniority driver who is horribly injured...or worse...in a head-on collision can be replaced with a younger driver making $10 an hour less. The huge cost of any medical expenses will be covered by UPS's insurance, or the insurance of the driver who hit him. Either way, UPS is $$ ahead of the game.

Listen to what you are saying!! Are you really this cynical?

What I hear you saying is that UPS would hope that if a serious injury occurs the company would rather it be a senior driver to save money. WOW!

I am sorry - but a comment like this is extremely distasteful. I cannot respect any poster who slanders UPS by making unsubstantiated claims. I have seen this now in a couple of recent threads... maybe it has been there all along and I haven't noticed.