705 and 710 working together!
- Thread starter 705red
- Start date
tieguy
Banned
Well Cach rumor is you're looking pretty hot in those high heels. And I hear the leather boots are too die for
What are your specific feelings on specific topics and why you think the companies proposal on that matter is the right one. That I could respect,otherwise we`re just sitting around with our thumbs up our behinds working on snappy comebacks.[/quote]
Nothing to talk about as I've said many times before until the final offer is on the table. I've explained the netotiation process. It does not change. I've highlighted your side's effort to market the negotiations to make it sound like they are beating a reluctant company across the head. The game is always the same every time the contract talks are negoiated. Nothing changes. I'm just surprised you guys don't also have the unions propaganda memorized by now. For some reason you guys are blind to it and gullibly follow the same line of BS hook , line and sinker.
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cachsux
Wah
Tie,how do you feel about any of these topics,even as just your opinion?
I`ll start it out for you..."I feel this is good,or bad,for the company because.."
brownman15
Well-Known Member
Nothing to talk about as I've said many times before until the final offer is on the table. I've explained the netotiation process. It does not change. I've highlighted your side's effort to market the negotiations to make it sound like they are beating a reluctant company across the head. The game is always the same every time the contract talks are negoiated. Nothing changes. I'm just surprised you guys don't also have the unions propaganda memorized by now. For some reason you guys are blind to it and gullibly follow the same line of BS hook , line and sinker. [/QUOTE]
only 13 days until contract expires when is ups going 2 give us a proposal the last day
only 13 days until contract expires when is ups going 2 give us a proposal the last day
brownman15
Well-Known Member
i second that tie debate the facts that are proposed and not propaganda bs. tell us why u think the company will not give us a full proposal.
705red
Browncafe Steward
How about article 53 were all new ftimers will now only get 40 hours of pay for vacations.
I put in the articles so you can go to the website and see what im talking about.
No propoganda here, just contract proposals from ups, which i might add they must have been stoned off of their butts to even consider sliding these across the table to us. How much drugs must one do in order to be this ridiculous?
I put in the articles so you can go to the website and see what im talking about.
No propoganda here, just contract proposals from ups, which i might add they must have been stoned off of their butts to even consider sliding these across the table to us. How much drugs must one do in order to be this ridiculous?
705red
Browncafe Steward
Tie do you believe that ups would make that mistake again?
"The last best and final offer" Did they not send out an email to ensure management would never use that line again?
Tie you spout of as a savvy ups negotiator, can you spell out your negotiating skills, references?
Please do not include craigs list, everyone knows you can get at least 30 to 40% off her asking price if you drive to her. Even the working girl is feeling the gas prices and unlike ups she is not allowed to pass it on to the customer.
tieguy
Banned
To others viewing this thread you can now see that the chicago posters and their supporters are frustrated because I have pointed out their marketing techniques.
a little background. union membership is declining. Many companies that are not union pay a scale that is comparable to union shops. Many offer sometype of binding arbitration to resolve grievances as ups does for its non union people. Couple that with the fact that union pensions and health care plans are overall inferior to non-union plans. Thus the questions why does anyone really need to belong to a union anymore. Contract talks are a huge marketing tool for unions. this is when they leverage negotiations to sell the need for a union. So you will see them sell the same old tired message that the company is trying to screw you and that you need the union to negotiate a good wage for you. yet despite this union representation part timers still continue to start out at 8.50 an hour. Go figure.
I have been pointing out the same old tired dialogue being dispensed during these talks. I have personally been through at least eight national negotiations. I have seen the same tired script feed to the members each time negotiations take place. I can tell you exactly what the union will say and when which is what I have done. Your hardcore union supporters do not like this. So they refuse to address the replay of the same old tired propaganda dialogue and will now try to distract me into other directions. The more you see them do this the more you know I am rubbing them raw by highlighting their propaganda parade.
Well....I've only had half cup of coffee this AM and don't want to offend but this sounds like something that would go on at our center. Toe to toe in the office but going out to lunch together and laughing once the hourlies are gone. We have a rep who appears to do this.
uh-oh I've probably offended both red and tie - two cups of coffee later--and apologize. It's possible for opposing sides to work against each other for the good of all, then get along later. It's part of business and I'm sure done everywhere.
An old cartoon, forget the name but a sheepdog and wolf clock in together then go head to head while on duty. Evil attempts by wolf to get those sheep and heroics by the dog to protect. Later, after clocking out they put their arms around each other and mosey off to enjoy the rest of their day.
We do have a rep at our center who is suspect of playing both sides but as bottom-of-food-chain hourlies, many of us don't understand the interworkings of the whole deal.
So again, sorry to have opened mouth prior to giving time for brain to wake up.
An old cartoon, forget the name but a sheepdog and wolf clock in together then go head to head while on duty. Evil attempts by wolf to get those sheep and heroics by the dog to protect. Later, after clocking out they put their arms around each other and mosey off to enjoy the rest of their day.
We do have a rep at our center who is suspect of playing both sides but as bottom-of-food-chain hourlies, many of us don't understand the interworkings of the whole deal.
So again, sorry to have opened mouth prior to giving time for brain to wake up.
tieguy said:
Can you support that statement at all? I'm pretty sure the guys you work with are in local 639, and I doubt that the majority of non-union plans are better than what they have, especially the pension which I've been told is better than what UPS management recieves.
tieguy
Banned
No problem Dill , I don't think I worded that very well either. I can see where you get that impression. I just meant that Red and I don't hold grudges no matter how pig headed we get in a debate.
tieguy
Banned
I probably should correct that statement. IAM is paying out a hefty 370 x years of service which may be the best pension payout I've seen anywhere. And I know the western conference is showing some recent health but overall I stand by my statement and no I'm not going to scan, import link and submit a 5 page thesis on why I believe what I believe. You don't have to look to far to see all the union pensions and health plans that are suffering despite the huge amounts of money being dumped into them by corporations. Many of them are still in a state of denial or still playing the blame the company game. I hope for the sake of their membership that they all wake up and smell the coffee.
705red
Browncafe Steward
To others viewing this thread you can now see that the chicago posters and their supporters are frustrated because I have pointed out their marketing techniques.
a little background. union membership is declining. Many companies that are not union pay a scale that is comparable to union shops. Many offer sometype of binding arbitration to resolve grievances as ups does for its non union people. Couple that with the fact that union pensions and health care plans are overall inferior to non-union plans. Thus the questions why does anyone really need to belong to a union anymore. Contract talks are a huge marketing tool for unions. this is when they leverage negotiations to sell the need for a union. So you will see them sell the same old tired message that the company is trying to screw you and that you need the union to negotiate a good wage for you. yet despite this union representation part timers still continue to start out at 8.50 an hour. Go figure.
I have been pointing out the same old tired dialogue being dispensed during these talks. I have personally been through at least eight national negotiations. I have seen the same tired script feed to the members each time negotiations take place. I can tell you exactly what the union will say and when which is what I have done. Your hardcore union supporters do not like this. So they refuse to address the replay of the same old tired propaganda dialogue and will now try to distract me into other directions. The more you see them do this the more you know I am rubbing them raw by highlighting their propaganda parade.
Nice propaganda tie. Your new reitrement plan is better than the teamsters? If im correct a newer sup now has to work until hes 62, Right?
No matter what age he started at 16,17, 18.
You keep spouting off about the union not negotaiting in good faith, well we have asked for ptimers to start at $10.50 an hour and another buck for skilled positions. What will you say when we are walking, because ups wont pay a good ptime rate? Will you still come to chicago to drive feeder if thats one of the reasons we are out?
If you work for ups eventually you will need the union! The company will abuse to the point that you will be in the office begging to keep your job.
This is how the company acts they will fire you and then tell you your lucky to have a job.
Nice try tie!
brownman15
Well-Known Member
To others viewing this thread you can now see that the chicago posters and their supporters are frustrated because I have pointed out their marketing techniques.
a little background. union membership is declining. Many companies that are not union pay a scale that is comparable to union shops. Many offer sometype of binding arbitration to resolve grievances as ups does for its non union people. Couple that with the fact that union pensions and health care plans are overall inferior to non-union plans. Thus the questions why does anyone really need to belong to a union anymore. Contract talks are a huge marketing tool for unions. this is when they leverage negotiations to sell the need for a union. So you will see them sell the same old tired message that the company is trying to screw you and that you need the union to negotiate a good wage for you. yet despite this union representation part timers still continue to start out at 8.50 an hour. Go figure.
I have been pointing out the same old tired dialogue being dispensed during these talks. I have personally been through at least eight national negotiations. I have seen the same tired script feed to the members each time negotiations take place. I can tell you exactly what the union will say and when which is what I have done. Your hardcore union supporters do not like this. So they refuse to address the replay of the same old tired propaganda dialogue and will now try to distract me into other directions. The more you see them do this the more you know I am rubbing them raw by highlighting their propaganda parade.
wrong tie union membership rose last year and union members averaged $200 more per week and pensions are better. u cannot retire in non union jobs with pension and health care after 30 yrs at any age so u Tie are the propaganda parade.
tieguy
Banned
cachsux
Wah
I`ll tell you my number 1 reason. It`s to cover my butt when a member of management screws up and try to step aside and let those beneath him take the fall for him. It`s happened more times than I can count and is responsible for 90% of the paperwork I`ve ever filed.I don`t think I have ever spoken to a steward looking for more money or better health care but I know I have spoken to them plenty about Mgr X calling the wrong shots and then wanting us to take the hit when the heats on him.
tieguy
Banned
Red , Now you're trying to put words in my mouth. I have not said any such thing.
I have talked about the union playing its propaganda game and I have talked about how gullible you guys are in to buying in to the same old tired rhetoric.
705red
Browncafe Steward
This is not the same old tired rhetoric. This is still a fairly new administration, which for the most part had no more than steward experience when they took office. Besides a couple of agents this is the first contract they have negotiated and upto this point they have done a ggreat job, and tomorrows vote will send a message.
