9.5 & Orion

[32F driver]

I don't run orion at all. My old school way everyday. My on road tells me yesterday morning, that I'm top of the list for non compliance of orion. Big effin deal, I don't want to be in my package car any longer than necessary. Besides, I'm saving UPS money by getting in earlier. Orion sux.

 

[soberups]

The contract doesnt say anything about whether or not we have to "comply" with ORION.

What it does say...is that we must give the company a fair days work for a fair days pay and do our jobs in a manner that best represents the interests of the Employer. If we do these things and the result is a paid day over 9.5 for 3 days per week then we have a right to file a grievance and receive penalty pay if the company fails to reduce our hours.

In my case...following ORION would NOT be in the best interests of the employer, it would add miles, cause my paid day to dramatically increase, and result in service failures.

 

[bottomups]

Running the route my way has increaased my stop count by about 10 stops a day but mostly have been under 9.5 on a daily basis.

So..... You're going out with 60 stops per day now? Must be Brutal! Haha!![/quote]
Some day grasshopper you will be an old antique such as myself and can bid on a nice retirement route. Must suck to deliver more parcels at your first dump stop than I do all day!


I have some cold beer. Got that pontoon in the water yet?

 

[browniehound]

The contract doesnt say anything about whether or not we have to "comply" with ORION.

What it does say...is that we must give the company a fair days work for a fair days pay and do our jobs in a manner that best represents the interests of the Employer. If we do these things and the result is a paid day over 9.5 for 3 days per week then we have a right to file a grievance and receive penalty pay if the company fails to reduce our hours.

In my case...following ORION would NOT be in the best interests of the employer, it would add miles, cause my paid day to dramatically increase, and result in service failures.

Sober, the problem is the employer thinks ORION is in its best interest. In theory it is, because less miles should mean less fuel and less hours worked by the driver. The problem is the ORION system isn't perfected yet or even respectable when it comes to accuracy.

At first I thought it was only my route that was screwed up but I had a chance to cover 2 or 3 other routes on ORION in the last 6 months. So, I look at the delivery order for these other routes and my mind is saying "WTF" or "this can't be right".

Let's face it, the system needs work. I only wish management would acknowledge this publicly in a PCM. They know its not right because I've been approached by a manager to tell me to "get together with the ORION guy to change the 'solution' because you're under the miles but under 85%".

BUT, doesn't this defeat the entire purpose of ORION and all the money spent on all the technology if I can just walk into the office and say "Ok, I run it this way and that way" and it changes the entire program?

To me it sounds like they are saying "tell us how you run the route and we'll make ORION work for it".
What good is that? Why not just let me run the route the way I do and not spend hundreds of millions of dollars to let me run my route the way I do?

I swear, UPS makes money in spite of itself. I bet I could let my cousin with an IQ of 82 run a center for a month and it wouldn't miss a beat and would make the same #'s. I bet he could!

 

[browniehound]

UPS is a very profitable company but could be a lot more in my estimation. Just think about what you see everyday at the center level. If you owned your own business and it was being run the way UPS is being run on the center level, would you not fire everybody?

I know I would. Think about it. Things we are told to do: "wait until 430 and sheet the M/L as closed" or "bring these 40 ground packages out to the driver and help him deliver them but don't sheet them yourself"
I can continue but you get the picture.

If anyone was running my personal, built from scratch, pride of my life business like that everybody would be fired on the spot. Its unacceptable and the only way UPS gets away with it is because the are so large, so old, and the efficiencies already built in are so tremendous, my dog could be named center manager for a month and nothing would change.

 

[oldngray]

UPS is a very profitable company but could be a lot more in my estimation. Just think about what you see everyday at the center level. If you owned your own business and it was being run the way UPS is being run on the center level, would you not fire everybody?

I know I would. Think about it. Things we are told to do: "wait until 430 and sheet the M/L as closed" or "bring these 40 ground packages out to the driver and help him deliver them but don't sheet them yourself"
I can continue but you get the picture.

If anyone was running my personal, built from scratch, pride of my life business like that everybody would be fired on the spot. Its unacceptable and the only way UPS gets away with it is because the are so large, so old, and the efficiencies already built in are so tremendous, my dog could be named center manager for a month and nothing would change.

center manager's have little real power to change anything. Just follow the directives from above and have conference calls. So, you are correct about a trained monkey doing the job. It will only change if center manager's are allowed to actually manage their own operations instead of being just a mindless yes man.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

If following ORION at a certain percentage could be a stipulation for whether or not a driver could file for over 9.5 then following EDD could be too. Thats why I call BS.

 

[browniehound]

Let me ask you a hypothetical. Let's say I run my route the Orion way and it takes me 11 hours. After several days of that nonsense, I get fed up and turn Orion off and it takes me 10 hours. Both ways are over 9.5 but because I am not running the route the Orion way, which is longer, I can not file excessive hours. Are you kidding me? Glad I am on the back nine.

No, you can do what you want and run the route the way you want. Of course, you can. But, if you file for excessive hours they are going to pick apart every second of every day. In my opinion it would be much easier for you to defend yourself if you ran the route their way and did everything by the book.

That's all I'm saying.

I wouldn't file for excess hours and its my personal choice. I don't blame anyone who does but I don't because when I took the driver job I was making $9.50/hour and the $13.94/hour starting pay with OT was a cash windfall for me. When I took the job I knew it wasn't a 9-5 job and I was good with this.

Every driver should know that M-friend life does not exist outside of UPS. Its just the nature of the job.
If you're the type of guy who wants to see every tee-ball practice for your 6-year old son, then driving is not for you and perhaps a 22.3 job would suit your lifestyle better.

Its one of the reasons you earn $32.96/hour. You would be lucky to earn half of that if you were forced into the labor market with zero skills.

My belief is : we signed up for the driver job and we should just accept the hours that go along with it. If you don't like to work long hours get a 22.3 job at $27/hour (great money for an unskilled laborer) or quit UPS and work landscaping for $14 bucks.

What would your immigrant great-grandfather or grandfather think of you? What would he think about his grandson complaining that he was working too many hours at $49.44/per hour?

He would think you're a spoiled rotten brat. The words "too many work hours" have no meaning to our grandfathers. Add $49.44 to those "too many hours" and he would hit me with his cane!

C'mon people, toughen up. They're the reason America was great during WWII and now America is not so great. We're fat and lazy.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

No, you can do what you want and run the route the way you want. Of course, you can. But, if you file for excessive hours they are going to pick apart every second of every day. In my opinion it would be much easier for you to defend yourself if you ran the route their way and did everything by the book.

That's all I'm saying.

I wouldn't file for excess hours and its my personal choice. I don't blame anyone who does but I don't because when I took the driver job I was making $9.50/hour and the $13.94/hour starting pay with OT was a cash windfall for me. When I took the job I knew it wasn't a 9-5 job and I was good with this.

Every driver should know that M-friend life does not exist outside of UPS. Its just the nature of the job.
If you're the type of guy who wants to see every tee-ball practice for your 6-year old son, then driving is not for you and perhaps a 22.3 job would suit your lifestyle better.

Its one of the reasons you earn $32.96/hour. You would be lucky to earn half of that if you were forced into the labor market with zero skills.

My belief is : we signed up for the driver job and we should just accept the hours that go along with it. If you don't like to work long hours get a 22.3 job at $27/hour (great money for an unskilled laborer) or quit UPS and work landscaping for $14 bucks.

What would your immigrant great-grandfather or grandfather think of you? What would he think about his grandson complaining that he was working too many hours at $49.44/per hour?

He would think you're a spoiled rotten brat. The words "too many work hours" have no meaning to our grandfathers. Add $49.44 to those "too many hours" and he would hit me with his cane!

C'mon people, toughen up. They're the reason America was great during WWII and now America is not so great. We're fat and lazy.

It doesn't matter if we make $33.01/hr or $100.00/hr. Or if we want 11 hour days or 8 hours days. The 9.5 language is there for a reason and ORION, just like EDD, has no bearing. Nor whether or not anyone believes our immigrant forefathers would approve.

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[browniehound]

It doesn't matter if we make $33.01/hr or $100.00/hr. Or if we want 11 hour days or 8 hours days. The 9.5 language is there for a reason and ORION, just like EDD, has no bearing. Nor whether or not anyone believes our immigrant forefathers would approve.

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Really, you don't feel a little bit guilty that our grandfathers were only offered the most menial of jobs at the very lowest pay the employer could get away with? But, the language in the contract says 3 over 9.5's and you can grieve it, so that's what matters.

Fine, I'll give you that. But what's right is right and I could care less what a piece of paper says. I'm talking about a person as a MAN, and a MAN would not whine about excess overtime, especially when the wage is $50/hour.

Go file your grievance and get your $75/hour for every hour worked OT outside of the 3 days because you earned it. You really did because the contract says you did.

How do you feel as a man though? Real men don't take money unless they worked for it.

Also, real men don't grieve excess hours. The whole point of the union is to create hours of work for its members. Good luck to you...

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Really, you don't feel a little bit guilty that our grandfathers were only offered the most menial of jobs at the very lowest pay the employer could get away with? But, the language in the contract says 3 over 9.5's and you can grieve it, so that's what matters.

Fine, I'll give you that. But what's right is right and I could care less what a piece of paper says. I'm talking about a person as a MAN, and a MAN would not whine about excess overtime, especially when the wage is $50/hour.

Go file your grievance and get your $75/hour for every hour worked OT outside of the 3 days because you earned it. You really did because the contract says you did.

How do you feel as a man though? Real men don't take money unless they worked for it.

Also, real men don't grieve excess hours. The whole point of the union is to create hours of work for its members. Good luck to you...

Real men Know when enough is enough and want to get home before their family is in bed.

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[728ups]

Some people on this forum simply cant let the old days go. We arent paid to make decisions,manage the route,use our area knowledge etc. those days are long gone and they aint coming back.
We have encountered the same situation in our local and the solution is EASY: be as close to 100% in compliance as possible and let the managers mange the route. They get paid to think,we get paid to work.

 

[728ups]

Really, you don't feel a little bit guilty that our grandfathers were only offered the most menial of jobs at the very lowest pay the employer could get away with? But, the language in the contract says 3 over 9.5's and you can grieve it, so that's what matters.

Fine, I'll give you that. But what's right is right and I could care less what a piece of paper says. I'm talking about a person as a MAN, and a MAN would not whine about excess overtime, especially when the wage is $50/hour.

Go file your grievance and get your $75/hour for every hour worked OT outside of the 3 days because you earned it. You really did because the contract says you did.

How do you feel as a man though? Real men don't take money unless they worked for it.

Also, real men don't grieve excess hours. The whole point of the union is to create hours of work for its members. Good luck to you...

The entire idea behind The Excessive Overtime Grievance is that (in theory) the company will become tired of paying employees 90 bucks an hour for excesive OT and hire some people. I have file every week I am overdispatched(worked 57 hours last week) and I most certainly earned the excessive overtime penalty pay. and by the way , i smile EXTRA big when i cash the Penalty Pay checks

UPS taught me years ago to NEVER leave money on the table

 

[toonertoo]

I often feel guilty for making what I make and complaining, You have a point. But there also comes a time when a man, cannot keep up the pace, based on the mans body at this point. Love earning the money, hate the pain. I have gotten used to the no life, thats why I come here for fellowship. And it doesnt matter if I am earning 50 or 100, I am earning every penny. Yes I may be in pain earning 14 an hour, but I will bet my butt, Im not hustling the same way. Working hard, you bet, Hustling, Not.

 

[Big J]

If they want you to follow ORION then follow it! That's what I do and am running more miles than before and it's taking longer but with that said getting paid more to do the same work their way. I'm also on the 9.5 list so oh well ok boss you know better than I do.

 

[By The Book]

Sober, the problem is the employer thinks ORION is in its best interest. In theory it is, because less miles should mean less fuel and less hours worked by the driver. The problem is the ORION system isn't perfected yet or even respectable when it comes to accuracy.

At first I thought it was only my route that was screwed up but I had a chance to cover 2 or 3 other routes on ORION in the last 6 months. So, I look at the delivery order for these other routes and my mind is saying "WTF" or "this can't be right".

Let's face it, the system needs work. I only wish management would acknowledge this publicly in a PCM. They know its not right because I've been approached by a manager to tell me to "get together with the ORION guy to change the 'solution' because you're under the miles but under 85%".

BUT, doesn't this defeat the entire purpose of ORION and all the money spent on all the technology if I can just walk into the office and say "Ok, I run it this way and that way" and it changes the entire program?

To me it sounds like they are saying "tell us how you run the route and we'll make ORION work for it".
What good is that? Why not just let me run the route the way I do and not spend hundreds of millions of dollars to let me run my route the way I do?

I swear, UPS makes money in spite of itself. I bet I could let my cousin with an IQ of 82 run a center for a month and it wouldn't miss a beat and would make the same #'s. I bet he could!

Like you said, they want you to run it their way. This means in your under 85% and under the miles example you presented, they want you to run more resi in trace to up your percentage and still be under miles.

 

[Biofallout]

First off who cares about these systems? The more you support them the more you allow it to take over. And soon they will use these systems for the automated robot systems that will drive the car and use small drones to deliver the packages as it get in the area and anything that cant be done with the little drone the car will deploy a human look-a-like to delver anything up to 1000lbs. If you don't believe me then go look it up. Start with http://www.darpa.mil/default.aspx or http://www.bostondynamics.com/.

 

[andrsnbkj]

Some people on this forum simply cant let the old days go. We arent paid to make decisions,manage the route,use our area knowledge etc. those days are long gone and they aint coming back.
We have encountered the same situation in our local and the solution is EASY: be as close to 100% in compliance as possible and let the managers mange the route. They get paid to think,we get paid to work.

We get paid to follow trace that puts us behind all day. This orion is the money maker file over 9 5 every week for that free doe

 

[The Blackadder]

I hate the stupidity of Orion, the extra money is not worth it, I would rather be home at some point with my wife and sometimes with my kids, where the hell are they any way?