97 Flashback

[satellitedriver]

Originally Posted by satellitedriver
Good teamster video.
Thanks for reaffirming why I quit the teamsters in 97'.
What a crock.


I assume you are still making the 1997 wage or are you only against the Teamsters when it suits you.

UPS pays my wage, not the teamsters.

 

[ogrelord]

UPS pays my wage, not the teamsters.

That might be true, but who got you that wage?

 

[tieguy]

That might be true, but who got you that wage?

Every contract I hear your side say the company got everything they wanted and the union rolled over so I guess the answer is the company did.

when you compare the union and non-union compensation packages you could realistically make the argument that the non-union package is better. We don't have to wait as long to accrue beni's and paid time off and we have the 401k match. Mip for management etc. No union got ours for us.

 

[ogrelord]

Every contract I hear your side say the company got everything they wanted and the union rolled over so I guess the answer is the company did.

when you compare the union and non-union compensation packages you could realistically make the argument that the non-union package is better. We don't have to wait as long to accrue beni's and paid time off and we have the 401k match. Mip for management etc. No union got ours for us.

Tie guy don't you have some PTer's work to go do? People forget how much the union's have done for the working people. there would be no 5 day work week, no over time, no heath care, broken down trucks on the road. Tie do you think UPS would pay over time if it didn't have too? or let people take there lunch? belive it or not are union has set the ground work for the jobs we have today. Tie go ahead a spew the UPS company line of crap all you want. But the truth is Sups lie, so i can't belive anything you say or ever will say.

 

[satellitedriver]

That might be true, but who got you that wage?

Who got me this wage?
UPS forced me to accept the wages when I applied for employment and I accepted.
PAX

 

[ogrelord]

Who got me this wage?
UPS forced me to accept the wages when I applied for employment and I accepted.
PAX

Do you think UPS would have offered you more if there was no union contract? would they offer you health care if it wasn't for the union. I work part time on the Reload. I know my job would be bottom rung at best, if it wasn't for teamsters. It's are job to look out for the people who are not teamsters yet. I live in a right to work state, I don't have to be part of the union if i don't want to, But i am. Why you ask? Cause the more people that are apart of the teamsters they better the teamster will be. The Stronger the union, the better my job becomes. If people stop chanting ME,ME,ME And started chanting US,US,US We could get anything we wanted. It's the ME's that have weaken the union. While we fight over wording of a contract, my grandfather Who was a pipe fitter in chicago had to fight over just having a contract. Lets not forget what these people have done for us, And lets not forget what we have to do for the people who are going to join are ranks.

Heres a simple statement might mean nothing to some people but it's the way i feel about the union.
For the greater good of man, go I.

 

[tieguy]

Do you think UPS would have offered you more if there was no union contract? would they offer you health care if it wasn't for the union.


yes to all. In fact I think non union benifits are better then union.

 

[satellitedriver]

Do you think UPS would have offered you more if there was no union contract? would they offer you health care if it wasn't for the union. I work part time on the Reload. I know my job would be bottom rung at best, if it wasn't for teamsters. It's are job to look out for the people who are not teamsters yet. I live in a right to work state, I don't have to be part of the union if i don't want to, But i am. Why you ask? Cause the more people that are apart of the teamsters they better the teamster will be. The Stronger the union, the better my job becomes. If people stop chanting ME,ME,ME And started chanting US,US,US We could get anything we wanted. It's the ME's that have weaken the union. While we fight over wording of a contract, my grandfather Who was a pipe fitter in chicago had to fight over just having a contract. Lets not forget what these people have done for us, And lets not forget what we have to do for the people who are going to join are ranks.

Heres a simple statement might mean nothing to some people but it's the way i feel about the union.
For the greater good of man, go I.

I could swap stories with you about unionism and family history.
I believe in organized labor, but not in the teamsters.
You are young and have the zeal of a new convert. Please do not try and push the rote rhetoric, that you are so easily swayed by, to me.
Improve yourself first, before you try improve the lot of mankind.
PAX

 

[ogrelord]

Do you think UPS would have offered you more if there was no union contract? would they offer you health care if it wasn't for the union.


yes to all. In fact I think non union benifits are better then union.

yea? how much you pay every 2 weeks for your health care? i bet it's double what i pay.

 

[ogrelord]

I could swap stories with you about unionism and family history.
I believe in organized labor, but not in the teamsters.
You are young and have the zeal of a new convert. Please do not try and push the rote rhetoric, that you are so easily swayed by, to me.
Improve yourself first, before you try improve the lot of mankind.
PAX

ya, i'm newer then most die hard union members, i got 5 years in. I'll admitt that i'm not happy with my local or how this contract went down, but i am a teamster. it's my voice and your voice that makes things happen. Change has to start some where, why shouldn't i be a drum beater? why should i have some one else doing what i feel is right?

 

[satellitedriver]

ya, i'm newer then most die hard union members, i got 5 years in. I'll admitt that i'm not happy with my local or how this contract went down, but i am a teamster. it's my voice and your voice that makes things happen. Change has to start some where, why shouldn't i be a drum beater? why should i have some one else doing what i feel is right?

I am not saying you should not.
I only hope you have more in you, than just identifying yourself as a teamster.
Your life,your choice.

 

[tieguy]

yea? how much you pay every 2 weeks for your health care? i bet it's double what i pay.

I don't get paid every two weeks and my 401K match easily covers it. thats the problem with the union mindset too many union goons out there trying to convince you and each other that they are worthless without the union. The unions strength is in collective bargaining. Collective bargaining was once a way for unions to force a decent wage out of the company. Their need is not there anymore. You have the means to now progress through the company and make those wages. If you had no union now your package would probably be structured differently but not necessarily worse. You would probably have more profit sharing options and you would probably have the 401 K match. Collective bargaining is also believe it or not a benifit to the company. In theory the company gets the unions input on what the members are looking for. They then realocate the employees compensation accordingly and then hopefully end up with a happy productive work force. kind of like getting a tune up on employee morale every 4 to 5 years. This little rebellion you're attempting to have here could throw a wrench in future negotiations. If successfull then the company would find theirselves listening to your leadership with one ear while trying to figure out what you folks really want with the other. This could certainly complicate the companys ability to negotiate a handshake and get an offer out to the ranks. Its potentially an interesting twist to future negotiations. But in order to sell yourself on the thank the union concept you first have to believe that you have no value to society with out their help. Do you have the skils to find a good paying job without the unions help or are you skill less and only able to get a good paying job because the union helped you get better then your skills would have earned you?

 

[Captain America]

I don't get paid every two weeks and my 401K match easily covers it. thats the problem with the union mindset too many union goons out there trying to convince you and each other that they are worthless without the union. The unions strength is in collective bargaining. Collective bargaining was once a way for unions to force a decent wage out of the company. Their need is not there anymore. You have the means to now progress through the company and make those wages. If you had no union now your package would probably be structured differently but not necessarily worse. You would probably have more profit sharing options and you would probably have the 401 K match. Collective bargaining is also believe it or not a benifit to the company. In theory the company gets the unions input on what the members are looking for. They then realocate the employees compensation accordingly and then hopefully end up with a happy productive work force. kind of like getting a tune up on employee morale every 4 to 5 years. This little rebellion you're attempting to have here could throw a wrench in future negotiations. If successfull then the company would find theirselves listening to your leadership with one ear while trying to figure out what you folks really want with the other. This could certainly complicate the companys ability to negotiate a handshake and get an offer out to the ranks. Its potentially an interesting twist to future negotiations. But in order to sell yourself on the thank the union concept you first have to believe that you have no value to society with out their help. Do you have the skils to find a good paying job without the unions help or are you skill less and only able to get a good paying job because the union helped you get better then your skills would have earned you?

I disagree. I feel the union has a low opinion of the intelligence of its members and is trying to slide by an offer that mostly helps its own bureaucracy by keeping their feeding trough full. If we follow your logic to the end what would happen is that there would be a large near slave labor force on the bottom(including you) and a comfortable elite on top. I feel we are already well on our way to making this a reality in this country and its got to stop. I don't feel I have an overabundace of money for doing what I do and I feel sorry for people who have less or need to have two people working for not a whole lot more. Something needs to fix this before its to late, I wish I had a better anwer to what your saying but what can you do when evrybody is out for themselves?

 

[sawdusttv]

Right on target Capt.
The thinking that some people have bought into is that we don't deserve what we get and we are way more fortunate than most, so don't complain, is all part of this movement. The people with that frame of mind have had that drilled into them over a period of time, brain washed if you will, in order to keep them suppressed. What ever happened to free enterprise, (capitalism)?
Folks, let me tell you something!
When you work for a mega financial giant such as UPS, you deserve every penny that you make and as much money and benifits as you can wrestle from them.
Yes we are paid well, but when you work for a cash cow such as UPS we should be paid EXTREMELY WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ogrelord]

Do you think UPS would have offered you more if there was no union contract? would they offer you health care if it wasn't for the union.


yes to all. In fact I think non union benifits are better then union.

Well , ya never answered the question. i know it's hard to get an answer from a Sup. so i'll ask again. How much do you pay every 2 week for health care? i say every 2 weeks cause that how you all get paid. you going to answer the question or you going to go off on a tangent again?

 

[satellitedriver]

I feel the union has a low opinion of the intelligence of its members and is trying to slide by an offer that mostly helps its own bureaucracy by keeping their feeding trough full.

Capt.,
That is the exact reason why I left the teamsters in 97'.
But, now the table has been turned.
The members seem to have a low opinion of the intelligence of the teamster bureaucracy.
Go figure that one?
PAX

 

[tieguy]

I disagree. I feel the union has a low opinion of the intelligence of its members and is trying to slide by an offer that mostly helps its own bureaucracy by keeping their feeding trough full. If we follow your logic to the end what would happen is that there would be a large near slave labor force on the bottom(including you) and a comfortable elite on top. I feel we are already well on our way to making this a reality in this country and its got to stop. I don't feel I have an overabundace of money for doing what I do and I feel sorry for people who have less or need to have two people working for not a whole lot more. Something needs to fix this before its to late, I wish I had a better anwer to what your saying but what can you do when evrybody is out for themselves?

Captain,
I think your answer is actually a good one and I don't necessarily disagree with all of it. Collective bargaining did serve a valuable purpose at one time and did bring up the overall working mans financial means from the slave labor type era. Unions have in some ways also put theirselves out of business. They fought for the many laws that you have on the books that protect labor from whatever. With that said times are now different. Many agencies and many laws that provide the protections that unions provided in the past. Overall scale is up. But its up as long as the company paying the bills is competitive. Too many people here that think UPS pockets are bottomless. They are not. When you consider a contract offer you also have to consider the flexibilities ups feels they need to compete. Fdx has no union restrictions. If they want their part time people working a split shift of two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon they can do so tommorrow with no union intervention. So with all respect I think you folks have to make sure your union is not so restrictive that it strangles the golden goose.

 

[tieguy]

Well , ya never answered the question. i know it's hard to get an answer from a Sup. so i'll ask again. How much do you pay every 2 week for health care? i say every 2 weeks cause that how you all get paid. you going to answer the question or you going to go off on a tangent again?

I'll answer your question again. i don't get paid every two weeks. Why would I possibly want to answer anymore when you can't even retain that part of my answer from my previous response. Would you like to know how much MIP I will collect. Would you like to know how much I will collect on my extra paycheck in december. Would you like to know how much I collect each year on my 401 K match. Perhaps you would like to know how much I make each month? Perhaps you would like to know about my pension plan which is 100 percent funded and has had absolutely no crisis issues at any time? Or did you just want to focus in one small part of my compensation plan to try to prove that your union negotiates a better deal?

Any way you shake UPS compensates their non-union people much better then their union people. So the argument you make that UPS would not pay you well if they did not have to is not necessarily true. "Turn off the I would be nothing without the union" concept and see if you can learn to think for yourself.

 

[ExupserNaples]

Again all I remember is "LAST, BEST and FINAL OFFER" Hello Tie????

 

[satellitedriver]

Right on target Capt.
The thinking that some people have bought into is that we don't deserve what we get and we are way more fortunate than most, so don't complain, is all part of this movement. The people with that frame of mind have had that drilled into them over a period of time, brain washed if you will, in order to keep them suppressed. What ever happened to free enterprise, (capitalism)?
Folks, let me tell you something!
When you work for a mega financial giant such as UPS, you deserve every penny that you make and as much money and benifits as you can wrestle from them.
Yes we are paid well, but when you work for a cash cow such as UPS we should be paid EXTREMELY WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!

What people have brought into the discussion that we do not deserve what we get?
Your analogy of a "cash cow", is interesting.
Elsie can not produce the milk, without a lot of support.
Someone has to grow, cut and store the hay to feed her.
Vaccinate her, keep her cool in the summer and sheltered in the winter.
She will wither and pass away, if she is milked dry and not feed properly.
I hope you find my analogy, supporting your idea that one get what one deserves, applies to your post.
As to your question,
What ever happened to free enterprise, (capitalism)?
The answer is socialism.
PAX