A liberal finally admits: abortion is murder!

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by JimJimmyJames, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. JimJimmyJames

    JimJimmyJames Big Time Feeder Driver

    http://www.uexpress.com/printable/print.html?uc_full_date=20090602&uc_comic=ru

    Whatever your take on abortion is, I wish we would be honest to exactly what it is. I learned long ago in college biology that when you abort a fetus you are ending a human life, period. That is where the debate should then be centered; is it permissable to end human life under certain circumstances?

    I am personally against abortion. But would I be in all circumstances? Probably not.

    One thing I know is that abortion is not a right granted by the constitution. If it were allowed to be voted on in each state, I feel a lot of the acrimony involved in the abortion debate would subside if people had the right to decide if their communities want to allow abortion or not.
     
  2. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    If men could get pregnant, abortions would be legal and available on demand, no appointment required, anywhere that tires or car parts were sold. Getting an abortion would be as quick and easy as getting an oil change.

    Abortions are bad. Forcing a woman to bear an unwanted pregnancy is worse. It is truly a lesser-of-two evils situation.

    No woman should ever have to go before some unaccountable authority and "beg" for permission to abort an unwanted pregnancy, or be forced to justify her decision on the basis of rape or life-threatening medical complications. It should be between the woman, her doctor and God.

    I have always been fascinated by the fact that most of the anti-choice crowd are also the same people who oppose sex education in the schools, or easy access to contraception. Their entire "strategy" seems to be to lecture teenagers on the merits of abstinence in the hopes that they will not have sex until they are married. An admirable goal, but one that is not attainable in the real world.
     
  3. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I don't know that the anti-choice crowd has ever been opposed to educaton on abstinence. When you speak against unwanted pregnancies you should at the same time bless yourself and thank god that you yourself were not determined to be an unwanted pregnancy.

     
  4. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I consider myself to be pro-choice but do not think that abortion should be considered as simply another birth control choice.
     
  5. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    The anti-choice crowd typically opposes contraception and sexual education being available in schools. They believe that the only thing that a teenager needs to be taught is to wait to have sex until marriage.

    I'm not going to argue the point that abstinence until marriage is the best choice. Unfortunately, that is not the choice that most teenagers are going to make. This is the real world, not some right-wing fantasy land.

    I believe that using abortion as simply another birth-control method is morally wrong. However, I am not the one who is going to carry the child to term and give birth to it....so my personal opinion should have no bearing.

    There are no "good" answers here. The best of the bad choices available to us is to make sure that abortions are safe, legal and rare.
     
  6. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I noticed they referred to Tillers death as murder but not his actions in performing late term abortions. I find myself wondering what he was doing in church when he recieved his abortion. Did he think attending church would absolve him of his sins. Did he silently pray for forgiveness for performing this butchery? Will his heat setting in his new place be put on maximum or do they break him in with a lesser heat for the first zillion years or so.
     
  7. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    I believe he was a Christian and therefore it was his acceptance of Christ as his savior that would absolve him of his sins. ... just like you or I, assuming you are a Christian.
     
  8. stevetheupsguy

    stevetheupsguy sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ

    This is definitely a "HOT TOPIC". I'm just adding my 2¢ so that I can have it listed in my subscriptions. Like any car accident, you just can't seem not to look.:wink2:
     
  9. browndevil

    browndevil Active Member

    I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with Sober's post. That being said, let me ask the qestion this way. If the tables were turned and it was us guys who could get pregnant would we want a choice?
     
  10. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    If us guys could get pregnant there would be abortion clinics in sports bars and we could get one while drinking a beer and watching a game. Or, we could pull our car in to the shop to get a lube oil and filter and get an abortion at the same time.

    Abortion laws have always been about maintaining control over women.
     
  11. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    What does it matter if the man gets pregnant or not....? abortion is abortion, it is murdering a baby. You have other options than murder. You want to get rid of the baby because you are inconvenienced? That the baby MAY have a rough life? Take away it's suffering by killing it?.... Nah, I'll stick to anti abortion side
     
  12. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    So do you believe that a woman who was raped should be forced to carry the child to term and give birth to it?

    Do you believe that a woman whose life or health is endangered by carrying the pregnancy to term should be forced to do so anyway?

    What about the 13 yr old girl who is molested and impregnated by a relative?

    If you believe that exceptions should be made for such situations then you are, by your own standards, condoning murder....in situations where your morality deems it to be acceptable.

    Such exceptions would, by definition, require the woman to get "permission" from some higher authority. The woman would have to somehow prove she was raped, or pay several doctors to testify that her health would be at risk.

    To whom do we as a society grant this authority to? And what rights should we grant the woman to appeal if her "request" is denied?

    A woman (or child) who has come to the difficult decision that an abortion is her best choice is already dealing with enough problems. We dont need to make the situation worse by requiring her to beg for permission and justify her reasons for wanting to end her pregnancy to some unaccountable bureacratic committee.

    One last thing to remember; outlawing abortions will not stop them from occuring. Those with enough money will simply drive or fly up to Canada to have them done. Those who lack the money will have to resort to coat hangers or unlicensed, unsafe back alley abortionists. The wealthy will skirt the law while the poor will be victimized by it.
     
  13. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    You mean like David Letterman?
    And I think Willow is 14.
     
  14. browndevil

    browndevil Active Member

    I think you and I have been down this road a while back. I respect your opinion and believe you will do what is right for your family. The reason why I said "us guys" is to mean what if the shoe was on the other foot and we were in situations that Sober has layed out what options would "we" want available to "us"?

    Keep it safe and hopefully rare and keep the conversation open and honest with our kids
     
  15. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    You bring up tough scenarios to try and make your point. I dont condone abortion in any situation. It is still MURDER. Yes it puts the woman in a difficult situation; understood. (The only situation to look at may be if the mother's life is TRULY in danger. That I do struggle with). All I can say in response to that without getting into an essay is that the baby is still a human and didnt ask for it to happen either. Murdering it is still done for the inconvience of the woman.

    Where is the authority given? The same authority for laws against any murder. Just because you cant physically see the baby doesnt mean it isnt as human as any of us. Asking "permission" to murder? Nah, not buying that.

    As far as a woman getting an abortion anyway. Well then that is something she will have to decide on her own. If she is hellbent on killing the baby, then that is Canada's burden to bear. Murders still happen everyday. It is against the law to kill someone, but the law is still there.

    I dont like government interference any more than you do, but they do have a term for a lawless society, and that is not good either.
     
  16. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    To a woman who has been raped and is facing the prospect of spending the next 19 years of her life bearing, birthing and caring for the offspring of her rapist....its a bit more than an "inconvenience".

    I dont fault you one bit for having your opinion. Its just one of those situations where your opinion should necessarily take a back seat to the rights of the woman who is actually dealing with it.
     
  17. UPSNewbie

    UPSNewbie New Member

    Sober brought up abstinence vs. sex education. Just two years out of high school, I can tell you abstinence did jack s*** for the majority of people in my school. I love to learn, so yes, I did look up the the details of sexuality and how to have and have had sex, safely. Many others have not.

    Example: I was a junior when a freshmen girl got in an argument with me about how condoms increase the chance of pregnancy. Admittedly, she was as stupid as they come, but what if she learned information about safe sex from a teacher? Most likely, she would keep that information--the correct information.

    A study shows that 46% of teenagers (15-19) have had sex at least once. If half of the teenage populace are having sex, wouldn't it be ridiculously smart to at least teach them how to have safe sex, therefor lowering the amount of abortions, therefor making everyone happy?

    Keep neglecting the teachings of important stuff.

    *Protip=teens don't listen to "sex is bad, mmk"*
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
  18. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    One, there are other options to spending 19 years of her life dealing with this unwanted child. What you mention may be a very very rough inconvenience for the woman, but aborting is still just an excuse for killing that innocent child.

    What about the rights of the baby? Do THEY have any rights? I guess not if it puts a woman in a stressful and unwanted situation. On the other side of the coin, what if your parent develops alzheimers? Should you be able to kill them early on because you will be inconvenienced with the possibility of a long stressful road ultimately ending in death anyway? Of course not.

    I know that this is a sensitive issue, but hey it was put up for debate here on the BC. I guess we just look at it from different angles. You look at it from the viewpoint of the woman, I look at it from the angle of the baby.
     
  19. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Speaking just for myself, I do not consider a blastocyst to be a baby, much less the equivalent of a human being with all the same rights and protections. A blastocyst is a potential human being however, and once again speaking just for myself, I would never make the decision to have an abortion simply for the sake of convenience. But if you've ever worked in an abortion clinic, or know someone who has, you realize that the vast majority of women who make that decision truly agonize over it. It's rarely, if ever, an easy choice to make and I agree with Sober that it should be entirely the decision of the woman involved. One dick = no vote.
     
  20. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Most couples say or think, "Let's make a baby".......not "Let's make a blastocyst"

    I still believe life begins at conception and abortion is the killing of a human. JMO