A new cold war?

[bbsam]

bbsam

?? Oh that's right we own all the Oil fields in the Middle East --there is no OPEC --and the price of gas is 25 cents a Gallon--is that your reality ??

Do you understand the nature of global markets? We don't "own the oil fields" in the middle east any more than we "own" the oil fields in North Dakota. There seems to be some FANTASY held by many that oil companies will start a mad drilling craze as soon as the Obama administration gets out of the way and gas prices will plummet. Absolutely not. Oil will be sold on the world market where companies get the best price. And if that price is not where oil companies want it, production will be slowed. "Supply and Demand" is not an absolute.

Besides, "owning the middle east oil fields" would create all kinds of logistical nightmares. Hasn't a decade + worth of war taught you anything? And that was two relatively small countries. Imagine trying to "own" Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran...yeah...good luck with that.

 

[island1fox]

bbsam,

We are obviously not on the same thread.

Not to be insulting --either you do not read and follow the thread or you do not comprehend the content.

There are people on here that have voiced their opinion that we are no better than any "Empire" invading and conquering lands to rape and pillage.
I have claimed there is a difference.

As Photo guy would say -stop beating a dead horse --so this will be my last attempt.

Russia ---invades conquers --keeps the land and the assets. Like the warm water seaport.
Ancient Rome --the same.
Spanish Empire --the same
Greek Empire --the same
Hitler Empire --the same

The United States for a whole host of reasons --some good --some bad have been involved with many wars.-We lose lives spend Trillions of Dollars --but do not TAKE the assets --LIKE THE Kuwait OR IRAQ Oil fields.If our GOVERNMENT took the OIL to sell to the Companies --to sell to the world Market ---we would be in much better Economic shape.

People will say we still gain in other ways --such as Defense spending -the private contractors--I can see that but --we the people do not gain --we are over 17 trillion in DEBT !!

Linear thinking --un linear thinking--What ever ---

Goes back to the Hope and Change ---End the special Interests groups -Obama promised to.

I would bet there is some middle ground with wkmac --and you


.

 

[island1fox]

Have I learned anything about --What did you say "Nation Building"

Yes --it fails --costs too much if Life and Treasure.

Owning and brutal control is another story and other countries.

See we have just went around in a circle.

U.S. --Stupidly Nation Builds
Russia --Brutal total Control

 

[wkmac]

I'm sure there are some 3rd and even 2nd world nations who would have a hard time differing between "stupidly nation builds" and "brutal total control." Some historians and geo-political scholars might also agree.

War is politics by other means and on the ground it looks the same regardless of whose flag it operates under.

Why war you ask? Because more often than not, war is the first step taken before nation building or total control. As to the Ukraine and the Crimea, how does it serve as pipeline gateway to the Caspian and other central Asia energy resources?

 

[roadrunner2012]

bbsam,

We are obviously not on the same thread.

Not to be insulting --either you do not read and follow the thread or you do not comprehend the content.

There are people on here that have voiced their opinion that we are no better than any "Empire" invading and conquering lands to rape and pillage.
I have claimed there is a difference.

As Photo guy would say -stop beating a dead horse --so this will be my last attempt.

Russia ---invades conquers --keeps the land and the assets. Like the warm water seaport.
Ancient Rome --the same.
Spanish Empire --the same
Greek Empire --the same
Hitler Empire --the same

The United States for a whole host of reasons --some good --some bad have been involved with many wars.-We lose lives spend Trillions of Dollars --but do not TAKE the assets --LIKE THE Kuwait OR IRAQ Oil fields.If our GOVERNMENT took the OIL to sell to the Companies --to sell to the world Market ---we would be in much better Economic shape.

People will say we still gain in other ways --such as Defense spending -the private contractors--I can see that but --we the people do not gain --we are over 17 trillion in DEBT !!

Linear thinking --un linear thinking--What ever ---

Goes back to the Hope and Change ---End the special Interests groups -Obama promised to.

I would bet there is some middle ground with wkmac --and you


.

Are you quoting James Joyce? Or suggesting that we should become more dictatorial as a nation?

You right wingers are so confusing.

 

[wkmac]

Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show

 

[ajblakejr]

I'm hearing rumors of a new cold war one week after Secretary of State Chuck Hagel announced deep cuts in military spending. Coincidence? Suddenly a backdrop where every dime is needed, every weapons system critical...sequestration be damned! We aren't really going to fall for this, are we?

When did Hagel become Secretary of State? Did John Kerry resign? Who replaced Hagel as Secretary of Defense? I am lost.

 

[bbsam]

When did Hagel become Secretary of State? Did John Kerry resign? Who replaced Hagel as Secretary of Defense? I am lost.

My bad. Secretary of Defense.

 

[island1fox]

Most "Historians" Record events in History as they perceive them--not how you or me may see the same event- Scholars -of all stripes ---experts ??? Most of them hang out with 18-19-20-21-18 -19 -20 21-Year olds --Can completely bamboozle them ---Me --Historians or scholars ---My guide is MY Tabla Rasa --what I have experienced--what I have seen, heard, been taught--have lived ---My values --whether the same or different than you or others --Is certainly what matters most to me.

Just an example of how we perceive things and REALITY :

I recently attended a Political Social Event (I was invited by a close Liberal friend) --that was celebrating the election of a very Liberal Mayor .
People attending this "invitation only" event would never imagine a Conservative would be among them--I was truly amazed to be among the very "High Society" Liberals --that among friends -let out their true beliefs ---as the Champagne flowed -the tongues loosened up:

"They have Lower I.Q.'s than us--either we take care of their basics--or they will take them" A definite theme and belief that people would not associate to Big Hearted Liberals. They also referred to Abortion as population control --particularly in the poor and Minority areas !! Go figure --People would have think that only the KKK or a GOP gathering would speak in such terms.

Amazing what the Upper "Limousine Liberals" will say behind closed doors---as long it is not in the press !!

Things are not always as we PERCEIVE them to be. But most people will tell you -that is MY Perception --therefore it is Reality--not so !!

A new cold war --Reality or Perception ??

 

[wkmac]

Most "Historians" Record events in History as they perceive them--not how you or me may see the same event- Scholars -of all stripes ---experts ??? Most of them hang out with 18-19-20-21-18 -19 -20 21-Year olds --Can completely bamboozle them ---Me --Historians or scholars ---My guide is MY Tabla Rasa --what I have experienced--what I have seen, heard, been taught--have lived ---My values --whether the same or different than you or others --Is certainly what matters most to me.

Just an example of how we perceive things and REALITY :

I recently attended a Political Social Event (I was invited by a close Liberal friend) --that was celebrating the election of a very Liberal Mayor .
People attending this "invitation only" event would never imagine a Conservative would be among them--I was truly amazed to be among the very "High Society" Liberals --that among friends -let out their true beliefs ---as the Champagne flowed -the tongues loosened up:

"They have Lower I.Q.'s than us--either we take care of their basics--or they will take them" A definite theme and belief that people would not associate to Big Hearted Liberals. They also referred to Abortion as population control --particularly in the poor and Minority areas !! Go figure --People would have think that only the KKK or a GOP gathering would speak in such terms.

Amazing what the Upper "Limousine Liberals" will say behind closed doors---as long it is not in the press !!

Things are not always as we PERCEIVE them to be. But most people will tell you -that is MY Perception --therefore it is Reality--not so !!

A new cold war --Reality or Perception ??

Aren't you being a hypocrite? You reserve the right of your "tabla rasa" to be your guide to determine your reality and yet when the tabla rasa of others guide them elsewhere, you hurl insults and ad homs.

 

[ajblakejr]

My bad. Secretary of Defense.

Mistakes are made and acknowledged. I am more distressed at the lack of no one picking up on it.

 

[island1fox]

Are you quoting James Joyce? Or suggesting that we should become more dictatorial as a nation?

You right wingers are so confusing.

rr,

Should not even waste my time responding.

People have claimed the U.S. is no Different than any Empire in History.

I stated we have been in many wars -some good reasons --some bad. We have not kept the countries land, seaports oil etc etc.

I claim there is a difference --our wars have increased the Debt --other Empires went to war to grow their Treasuries !!

Broken down to be simply understood --can care less on agreement --or not.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Mistakes are made and acknowledged. I am more distressed at the lack of no one picking up on it.

Perhaps the insignificance of the error was not worth mentioning.


Sent using BrownCafe App

 

[island1fox]

Aren't you being a hypocrite? You reserve the right of your "tabla rasa" to be your guide to determine your reality and yet when the tabla rasa of others guide them elsewhere, you hurl insults and ad homs.

wkmac,

Sorry if you cannot deal with REALITY.

Your Tabla Rasa and beliefs are yours --I am fine with that ----I was pointing out to you --that I will not listen to a "scholar" or "Historian" and immediately change my beliefs.

Where did I say that I do not respect your beliefs ??? Hypocrite ???

One fact we both cannot change --how ever we came to them OUR beliefs --YOURS and Mine -- are our REALITY --ever changing --but OURS--yours and mine !!!!!

Chill out !!

 

[wkmac]

Island,

Your response itself speaks to the point I was making.

As to chilling out, you should join me. It would serve you well.

 

[wkmac]

Perhaps the insignificance of the error was not worth mentioning.


Sent using BrownCafe App

Good point. The small error of mixing up persons and titles didn't change the greater point bbsam was making. If naming the wrong person changes that, then yes, making light of it would be important.

 

[island1fox]

Maybe we are on the same page --different book.

I would hope that your beliefs are as important to you as mine are to me. I believe they are !!

Because I refused to accept your references to support some of your beliefs --made me a Hypocrite ????

Go back and read my response about Historians and scholars -- I still stand by it --Still very clear I did nor "dis" your beliefs.

Seems very clear to me --your "upset" was caused by me not accepting that because some Historians and some Scholars support a certain position --must make it the right one !! Life just does not work that way.

Go on the Global warming thread --has been going on for weeks ---"Expert Scientists believe in man made Global Warming" "Expert Scientists believe man does not impact Global Warming"

Both of those BC posters can have their own opinions and beliefs --along with what they believe "PROVE" them right. So what ?? It will never be solved or answered on BC.
Some people seem to feel that everyone must accept their positions ---there can be no other --I must win mentality !!

As Photog would say --time for me to move on --this horse has been beaten to death.

 

[wkmac]

No Island, your accepting my view is irrelevant to me. I know that is not nor likely to ever happen. My point is you've labeled people, in effect calling them names when their tabla rasa draws them to a different conclusion than what you've reached. Seems to me that calling them names, putting them down contradict your ideal as to how you and each of us arrive at truth per your explanation.

My reference earlier to "some historians and scholars" is just that some people have come to these conclusions and not to assert this assertion as true nor that you should or should not accept it. It's just there are other who see things different and like Aristotle sez, "the mark of an educated mind is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it" was the point.

But Hoax is right, this should just be put to bed. Time to move on.

 

[roadrunner2012]

But Hoax is right, this should just be put to bed. Time to move on.

Where would we post cartoons in 78 page threads then?

Not that this is a 78 page thread, but you get my drift, maybe.

 

[island1fox]

wkmac,

Would like nothing more than put this to bed.

Just one thing --what people did I label ?? In effect called them names ??

If you mean my very accurate statements involving bias of some Historians or Scholars --forget it --just another sign of an educated mind --to recognize reality .