A question sent via PM

[dannyboy]

First, I asked the sender of the PM permission to post it here without anything to identify the sender. I do consider PM private, unless decency is violated.

Dannyboy, what would you do if you witnessed a steward ask a sup to change a time card so the steward could go home without waiting to finish a break?

Thats a tough call.

First, the steward asked, which would diminish my respect for that steward. It shows that the steward is not aboveboard in all his dealings. In other words he will lie and cheat to satisfy his/her needs, regardless of what and who they represent.

Secondly, it would bother me to think that the steward would even ask the manager, because that would indicate that he either has had management do it before, or he thinks they will be dishonest enough to do it.

Now, you asked what I would do.

I would document what was done, and when he went home. If in fact the card was changed, I would turn them in. But that is me. That action would bring heat down on you from both sides. Something a lot of drivers dont want. I would say that UPS would probably not fire the sup (or they might depending on the sup involved) and the union should drop the steward (which probably wont happen if there is cronyism), but I would bring it to the attention of the proper "higher ups" on both sides.

IF the driver wants or needs to get home earlier, then they can simply punch out. But in this case, the driver wanted every last cent, but did not want to wait to earn it.

It also puts UPS in a pickle should the driver get hurt or killed on the way home, but yet they are still on the clock.

But beyond that, the actions of both is dishonest.

d

 

[cachsux]

The steward couldn`t wait 10 min to punch out? Go to the bathroom or something for petes sake. That being said I would wonder what else he was making deals for.

 

[dannyboy]

There are times where a steward has to learn the art of the deal. There is no other way to get a job back, or to keep someone from being terminated.

But what is bad about this is that he is asking another UPS employee to not only violate the contract, but to do something that could get the employee fired. A management employee at that, one that does not have the possibility of a hearing.

And the favor that violated the contract and can get the other employee terminated was for a personal favor, something that benefited the steward personally.

I saw our business agent do things like that years back. The one we ran off. It was interesting, he did not want to go back to delivery, but he asked about management positions available. I figure with the dishonesty shown over the years, they didn't want him.

AS a steward, your integrity is all you have. Its a shame someone would sell out.

d

 

[trplnkl]

Is there really a violation of any rule here? Simply asking the sup to edit a time entry it no crime. The question I have is, did the sup comply with the steward's request? If he refused, no actual rule has been broken and the sup is vindicated. If the sup complied, then I agree that both sup and steward are guilty of sin and should parish in the depths of UPS hell fire.


BTW, If I had heard the conversation, I would let them both know that if this took place it would be done for me and every other driver wanting to go home early on the clock from now on.

 

[dilligaf]

Trp, IMPO you are missing the point here. It doesn't matter about the time, it doesn't really even matter whether the sup complied or not. What matters is there is a steward that knowingly and willingly violated the contract and policy but asking to have a time card falsified. The stewards are, above all, supposed to act above and beyond reproach. They are supposed to hold the integrity of the union on the highest level.

 

[dannyboy]

Tpl

asking the sup to edit a time entry it no crime.

It was not an "edit". The steward asked for the sup to change the punch out time to a later time. That very act is wrong. IT is time card falsification and can get both fired. Can you say stealing time? Because that is what it is.

I know, we can argue the finer points of the issue, but the bottom line is this. No one has the right to change a time card. Period.

d

 

[Livin the Dream?]

If I tried to take action on everything I thought I might have overheard at UPS, I'd never get anything done.

 

[NHDRVR]

A steward who would do that shouldn't be one...

 

[trplnkl]

Trp, IMPO you are missing the point here. It doesn't matter about the time, it doesn't really even matter whether the sup complied or not. What matters is there is a steward that knowingly and willingly violated the contract and policy but asking to have a time card falsified. The stewards are, above all, supposed to act above and beyond reproach. They are supposed to hold the integrity of the union on the highest level.

Well I do understand the question. Dannyboy, what would you do if you witnessed a steward ask a sup to change a time card so the steward could go home without waiting to finish a break?

Was the point not, " what would you do if........? That is what I was addressing. To ask this to be done is not violating any rules or laws unless it is fulfilled. Stupid yes,unethical yes, wrong again yes....but... not really a violation.

Tpl

It was not an "edit". The steward asked for the sup to change the punch out time to a later time. That very act is wrong. IT is time card falsification and can get both fired. Can you say stealing time? Because that is what it is.

I know, we can argue the finer points of the issue, but the bottom line is this. No one has the right to change a time card. Period.

d

Edit:: to alter, adapt, or refine especially to bring about conformity to a standard or to suit a particular purpose .
What is the difference in Edit and change, besides the spelling? If you reported to the powers that be that so' n' so asked what'shisname to edit, change, alter, falsify a time card the power that be would first ask if the action was taken. If the action, literally , happened then all hell would probably break loose. However if the supervisor did not do as asked, absolutely nothing would be done. I do not disagree that a time card should not be falsified in any way by anyone for any reason and any one that does so should be fired. However, we do not know if this happened, now do we? All we know is the steward( that does not deserve being a seward) asked ofr it to be done.

A steward who would do that shouldn't be one...

I agree with that, I know I would gladly vote for his removal.

 

[dannyboy]

Edit:: to alter, adapt, or refine especially to bring about conformity to a standard or to suit a particular purpose .

I stand corrected, thank you.

I was using edit in a more restrictive way. To where you have the sup edit the cards for mistakes.

So you were correct.

The problem is now that it was altered to reflect the drivers end of day time, instead of the actual time punched out.

I also understand that as long as it was verbal, and nothing was done, they did not violate the rules or contract. Stupid and dishonest on the part of the steward, but not by the sup.

But it seems they have done the deed.

What should be the next step?

d

 

[jimstud]

that is wrong on so many levels it is not even funny. that steward needs to be bounced like right now. if he has that kind of relationship with a management person what other kind of backroom deals is he making?

 

[Livin the Dream?]

Has everyone here forgotten one major fact?

1. It was something overheard.

2. At UPS, we unfortunately work with human beings.

Unless you can prove wrongdoing, this is a complete and total non-issue.

 

[dannyboy]

Has everyone here forgotten one major fact?

1. It was something overheard.

2. At UPS, we unfortunately work with human beings.

Unless you can prove wrongdoing, this is a complete and total non-issue. Today 02:59 PM

(chuckling here) Living, which one of those three were the one major fact?

It has gone past the overheard point. The time card was altered.

As far as a steward having a working relationship with the management team, you have to have one. But this is not a working relationship.

I cant say if the steward used his position to influence the sup. But because he is a steward, he needs to answer for what they now have done.

d

 

[jimstud]

As far as a steward having a working relationship with the management team, you have to have one. you are correct that as a steward you need to have a working relationship and not to constantly butt heads with management but when that relationship allows you to steal time then there is something wrong. if the management team is letting him steal time i wonder what he is giving back in return?

 

[dannyboy]

Makes you wonder.....d

 

[dilligaf]

Well I do understand the question. Dannyboy, what would you do if you witnessed a steward ask a sup to change a time card so the steward could go home without waiting to finish a break?

Was the point not, " what would you do if........? That is what I was addressing. To ask this to be done is not violating any rules or laws unless it is fulfilled. Stupid yes,unethical yes, wrong again yes....but... not really a violation.

True, the question was presented as what would you do. I apologize if I upset you.
Edit:: to alter, adapt, or refine especially to bring about conformity to a standard or to suit a particular purpose .
What is the difference in Edit and change, besides the spelling? If you reported to the powers that be that so' n' so asked what'shisname to edit, change, alter, falsify a time card the power that be would first ask if the action was taken. If the action, literally , happened then all hell would probably break loose. However if the supervisor did not do as asked, absolutely nothing would be done. I do not disagree that a time card should not be falsified in any way by anyone for any reason and any one that does so should be fired. However, we do not know if this happened, now do we? All we know is the steward( that does not deserve being a seward) asked ofr it to be done.


I agree with that, I know I would gladly vote for his removal.

 

[dilligaf]

I stand corrected, thank you.

I was using edit in a more restrictive way. To where you have the sup edit the cards for mistakes.

So you were correct.

The problem is now that it was altered to reflect the drivers end of day time, instead of the actual time punched out.

I also understand that as long as it was verbal, and nothing was done, they did not violate the rules or contract. Stupid and dishonest on the part of the steward, but not by the sup.

But it seems they have done the deed.

What should be the next step?

d

Has everyone here forgotten one major fact?

1. It was something overheard.

2. At UPS, we unfortunately work with human beings.

Unless you can prove wrongdoing, this is a complete and total non-issue.

 

[trplnkl]

I stand corrected, thank you.

I was using edit in a more restrictive way. To where you have the sup edit the cards for mistakes.

So you were correct.

Sorry if I came across as wanting to correct you. My intent was to show my use of the word edit.

The problem is now that it was altered to reflect the drivers end of day time, instead of the actual time punched out.

My posts centered around the data provided which did not state that the deed had been done.

I also understand that as long as it was verbal, and nothing was done, they did not violate the rules or contract. Stupid and dishonest on the part of the steward, but not by the sup.
Thank you.

What should be the next step?

If the wrong doing can be proven, IMO it should be reported to higher authorities( UPS hot line?). If it can not be proven then it's becomes a he/she said vs. he/she said and nothing will be accomplished but placing a target on the "reporters" back from the sup and no shielding from the steward.

d

BTW, I join Stug in the "Just my opinion" club.

 

[dannyboy]

tpl

Sorry if I came across as wanting to correct you. My intent was to show my use of the word edit.

There is a big difference between wanting to correct someone and wanting to correct something for clarification purposes. Unless I missed something, you were not trying to correct me, you were trying to correct the conversation to make sure we were all discussing things correctly. It just happened that I was the one that was incorrect. And I do thankyou for pointing out that I had limited the usage incorrectly. Believe it or not, I do make mistakes every now and then

As for the proof, if there is proof of the action, then it should be handled. As I understand the diad and reports, any changes to the diad information leaves a trail, one that can be documented. IF that is true, then proving or disproving should not be a problem.

The last thing this driver wants to do is shoot off at the mouth with a story that can not be proven. Even with proof, it becomes a no win for this driver from both sides, especially if the steward is liked and has connections, and the sup is normally a nice guy.

But sometimes you have to take a stand that is not popular, and let everything come out in the wash.

d

 

[Catatonic]

Believe it or not, I do make mistakes every now and then

Opinions can be mistakes?