a question to ft management

[RolloTony Brown Town]

Hey all,

I'm fairly new to the brown cafe. I mostly read to see how others feel about the company.
To give a little background, i've been with the company for 7 years. 2 1/2 years loading at a hub, and the rest as management. I put in my ft letter 2 years ago, passed my panel in april of '11. I was sent on road this past summer. My question is to the guys who went into ft management and had the opportunity to go back into the union. Do you regret it?

I don't personally think i would regret it, because i like the room for growth that being a management person brings. I've enjoyed assisting my employees and showing them i'm not your stereotypical hypocritical management person. The reason i ask is that several of the drivers in the center i drive out of assure me that i will absolutely regret the move. I guess i'm a little concerned. Should i be? I'll end up doing it because i like the challenge but i look forward to the comments lol

 

[Dragon]

Hey all,

I'm fairly new to the brown cafe. I mostly read to see how others feel about the company.
To give a little background, i've been with the company for 7 years. 2 1/2 years loading at a hub, and the rest as management. I put in my ft letter 2 years ago, passed my panel in april of '11. I was sent on road this past summer. My question is to the guys who went into ft management and had the opportunity to go back into the union. Do you regret it?

I don't personally think i would regret it, because i like the room for growth that being a management person brings. I've enjoyed assisting my employees and showing them i'm not your stereotypical hypocritical management person. The reason i ask is that several of the drivers in the center i drive out of assure me that i will absolutely regret the move. I guess i'm a little concerned. Should i be? I'll end up doing it because i like the challenge but i look forward to the comments lol

What reasons did they give for you regretting going into management friend/T?

 

[RolloTony Brown Town]

Mostly the long hours and the inevitable ***** rolling downhill that causes their stress level to be really high.

 

[brown bomber]

Does management still eat their own ???

I've been away from UPS for a few years, that was the common practice back then. I can't imagine things have improved in that time span.

 

[beentheredonethat]

I started at UPS while in college, and when I graduated was able to go out on road for 9 months with the intention of coming in as FT mgmt. (That was 20+ years ago). Granted there are a lot of differences now, then when I started. There are some good things about staying a FT driver. The pay is good, the benefits are better then mgmt, they also have more of a safety net with the union protecting them. However, there isn't a lot of reward for doing a really good job and knowing that in 30+ years you will still be making the same as another person who may not quite try or work as hard as you. At the same time, when it is quitting time, you can go home and not worry about what is left to do. With management it is what you make of it. The growth years are gone, the chances for promotion aren't what it used to be. However, even if you decide that UPS mgmt isn't for you, having UPS mgmt on your resume is still impressive to other companies and it will help to open doors for you. I know of many companies that actively recruit current UPS management folks. Many have left for jobs with less stress and similar or more pay. In any event, do the following, (it doesn't matter if you stay at UPS or leave do this).. Do what you say you are going to do, do your job to the best of your ability, admit when you make a mistake, never stop trying to improve yourself, take care of the people who work for you and they will take care of you, be honest.

 

[TxRoadDawg]

Ill quote a friend of mine. "I can make 80 grand a year and all I have to worry about is me myself and I, why do I want to make less and have to worry about what 15 other people are doing.". Course ya can't argue it does look sweet on a resume.

 

[Dragon]

Ill quote a friend of mine. "I can make 80 grand a year and all I have to worry about is me myself and I, why do I want to make less and have to worry about what 15 other people are doing.". Course ya can't argue it does look sweet on a resume.

You can make $80K...but you actually have to come to work and drive the truck every day to get paid.
If I am correct most of the new drivers (and there are a lot of them) cannot retire until 62 with a pension (not all locals)...so you can be on the pkg car/feeder for 30+ years wearing your body out or you can be in management and deal with the stress or move on.

I do not regret going into management and will leave it at that.

 

[Anonymous 10]

Does management still eat their own ???

I've been away from UPS for a few years, that was the common practice back then. I can't imagine things have improved in that time span.

We've had two managers fired in the last week and a half so you do the math.

 

[brownmonster]

You can make $80K...but you actually have to come to work and drive the truck every day to get paid.
If I am correct most of the new drivers (and there are a lot of them) cannot retire until 62 with a pension (not all locals)...so you can be on the pkg car/feeder for 30+ years wearing your body out or you can be in management and deal with the stress or move on.

I do not regret going into management and will leave it at that.

Could not drive the truck and not get paid for 20+ days and still make 80K.

 

[soberups]

Does management still eat their own ???

I've been away from UPS for a few years, that was the common practice back then. I can't imagine things have improved in that time span.

They shoot their wounded, eat their young, and pick their teeth with the bones of the ones who failed to make their numbers.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Assisting employees....good one. ;P I say that , knowing the OP and some history.

 

[BLACKBALLED]

I am not sure going Full time is a wise idea, I am not sure who Dragon is or what he will admit to, but you have to do some very unethical things to your employees to be Management, I can bet that there is no-one who has been in Full-time management that can honestly say they were truthful, Honest and without fault in their management career, it is up to you but you have to be heartless and gutless to be a Full time Manager, I say that because they have to do so much wrong to its PT Sups and Drivers and hourlies. I knew division managers who were faith going ministers on the weekends and heartless gutless souls during the week, it is really sad to see but it is true and I have witnessed a lot. Dont do it!

 

[packageguy]

I have a friend of mine, we started about the same time drove for 8 years, woke up one day and said I going into management, 3 years later he resigned, they ( ups ) wanted him to change. He was to friendly with the hourly, but that was his nature, hell of a nice guy. He would do anything for his drivers and we did for him. It was like one of our own, on the inside. We still talk to this day, so there is life after UPS. Some to think about. Good luck

 

[Dragon]

I am not sure how you guys get a such a distorted view of management but you do not have to lie, cheat and steal be a successful manager.

I am sure you can tell me how many management people you have seen come and go, just like I can tell you how many employees I have seen come and go including the ones I used to work with.

I am qualified to judge which job I would prefer since I was a driver for 10+ years and now I am in management. UPS asks a lot of you as an hourly and asks a lot of me in management so both have challenges, since I have experienced both, I prefer the management job.

Dragon

 

[RolloTony Brown Town]

I appreciate all of the feedback. Its good to get a little back and forth going, and get to see both sides. Driving has been a great experience. I definitely want to be in management. Personally, i would like to get some time driving beyond summer coverage and peak. I think it would be easier to be an on road supervisor with more experience as a driver.

As far as my management style is concerned, i have always taken care of my employees. Many times going to bat for them, taking chances on guys who promised, being as fair as possible to everyone trying to promote the team mentality. There's so much more to it but i'm not going to continue boring anyone with that.

Thanks again everyone. I hope i never have to be unethical as a ft mgmt person.

 

[air_upser]

I appreciate all of the feedback. Its good to get a little back and forth going, and get to see both sides. Driving has been a great experience. I definitely want to be in management. Personally, i would like to get some time driving beyond summer coverage and peak. I think it would be easier to be an on road supervisor with more experience as a driver.

As far as my management style is concerned, i have always taken care of my employees. Many times going to bat for them, taking chances on guys who promised, being as fair as possible to everyone trying to promote the team mentality. There's so much more to it but i'm not going to continue boring anyone with that.

Thanks again everyone. I hope i never have to be unethical as a ft mgmt person.

granted I am not in ops, but "going to bat" for your employees will surely not get you promoted. It's an unfortunate and miserable truth. In fact, it is more so for managers towards their sups. If you're not a yes-man, you have no career in management. You need to be a spineless, gutless, ruthless, brainless kiss-ass to succeed these days. Does that sound bitter?

 

[tarbar66]

granted I am not in ops, but "going to bat" for your employees will surely not get you promoted. It's an unfortunate and miserable truth. In fact, it is more so for managers towards their sups. If you're not a yes-man, you have no career in management. You need to be a spineless, gutless, ruthless, brainless kiss-ass to succeed these days. Does that sound bitter?

I had a few managers that were spineless, gutless, ruthless, brainless kiss-ass to succeed types. Fortunately the 80-20 rule applied and there were more fair and honest managers and supervisors than the 20 percent as above.

Along those lines the higher ups of the 20% butt heads knew how to be fair and honest. I saw where they could be put in their place or transferred somewhere they would do less damage.

 

[SignificantOwner]

...and bid drivers call in sick the day after federal holidays to purposely stick their teamster brothers or sisters with cars jammed full of their holiday send-agains. Management and drivers aren't all that different.

 

[SignificantOwner]

I am not sure going Full time is a wise idea, I am not sure who Dragon is or what he will admit to, but you have to do some very unethical things to your employees to be Management, I can bet that there is no-one who has been in Full-time management that can honestly say they were truthful, Honest and without fault in their management career, it is up to you but you have to be heartless and gutless to be a Full time Manager, I say that because they have to do so much wrong to its PT Sups and Drivers and hourlies. I knew division managers who were faith going ministers on the weekends and heartless gutless souls during the week, it is really sad to see but it is true and I have witnessed a lot. Dont do it!

I guess the supposition here is that the OP must stay in the ranks of the honest and upright drivers. How many drivers have gone through their careers without burying a missed package, sheeting an air stop before they got there, mis-recording mileage, sheeting a pickup stop they didn't make, calling in sick when they weren't sick, and so on? Most drivers have done some of these things in their career but I wouldn't call drivers a group of liars and cheaters. The premise that you can't keep your integrity in management is just wrong. Sure, management is a group of self absorbed individuals that only care about themselves...but every other work group is the same way.

 

[soberups]

I guess the supposition here is that the OP must stay in the ranks of the honest and upright drivers. How many drivers have gone through their careers without burying a missed package, sheeting an air stop before they got there, mis-recording mileage, sheeting a pickup stop they didn't make, calling in sick when they weren't sick, and so on? Most drivers have done some of these things in their career but I wouldn't call drivers a group of liars and cheaters. The premise that you can't keep your integrity in management is just wrong. Sure, management is a group of self absorbed individuals that only care about themselves...but every other work group is the same way.

The overwhelming majority of management people I have worked for over the last 25 years have been people of integrity.

Unfortunately for them...they are also people who have no real chance of getting promoted beyond the level of Center Manager. My observations over the last 25 years tell me that in order to rise above that level, one must check one's ethics at the door to a certain extent in order to make one's numbers look good enough to be considered for promotion.

I also tend to make a distinction between a dishonest act done for personal gain versus a dishonest act done for the sake of survival. UPS management is a brutal, predatory, cutthroat line of work, with no real job security, and to an extent I can forgive someone who cuts a few corners simply to avoid getting fired. We all have families to feed and I cant say I wouldnt do the same thing if I were in their shoes. Its tougher for me to have any empathy for the "corporate climbers" who are so hell-bent on advancement that they will stop at nothing to make their numbers look better. It has been my experience that these are the worst and most dishonest people to have to work for. They are also the ones who inevitably get promoted.