A supervisor stands up to the IE manager...and pays the price

[brownIEman]

So with lighter loads in some cars, and you make the assumption every driver with lighter loads in the center went "ahhh nice, car is not jammed up, ill work slower?"

Having never driven before?

You know what they say about assuming..

You are correct, it does sound like I am stating an assumed fact. I withdraw it. So consider it not something I feel I know is true, consider it one proposed theory.

If you have another for a group of drivers having fewer average stops and fewer piece counts yet coming in on average in the same amount of time I would like to hear it. Weather and road conditions were the same, so it was not that. Stop distribution was also almost identical, just spread among over more routes.

As an added piece of data, misload numbers where nearly identical. In fact, as I recall, there were fewer misloads on the day routes were added.

BTW, re-reading it also looks like I am saying drivers with lesser work loads are making a conscious decision to work slower. While I believe my theory to be valid, I do not think the lesser performance with less work is a conscious thing. I believe it to be more subconscious. And While I have not been a driver, I have been on many, many rides over multiple days, and seen the change in a driver from a day when the car is light and when it is bricked out. Most drivers I have ridden with tend to be stressed and push themselves harder and faster with heavier loads in an effor to get through it all. That has been my experience...

 

[UnconTROLLed]

You are correct, it does sound like I am stating an assumed fact. I withdraw it. So consider it not something I feel I know is true, consider it one proposed theory.

If you have another for a group of drivers having fewer average stops and fewer piece counts yet coming in on average in the same amount of time I would like to hear it. Weather and road conditions were the same, so it was not that. Stop distribution was also almost identical, just spread among over more routes.

As an added piece of data, misload numbers where nearly identical. In fact, as I recall, there were fewer misloads on the day routes were added.

BTW, re-reading it also looks like I am saying drivers with lesser work loads are making a conscious decision to work slower. While I believe my theory to be valid, I do not think the lesser performance with less work is a conscious thing. I believe it to be more subconscious. And While I have not been a driver, I have been on many, many rides over multiple days, and seen the change in a driver from a day when the car is light and when it is bricked out. Most drivers I have ridden with tend to be stressed and push themselves harder and faster with heavier loads in an effor to get through it all. That has been my experience...

Fair enough. And you are probably correct in some cases. Not sure about all, or even 50%. I know quite a few drivers that would slug along in a blown out load and whip through an 8 hour dispatch.

 

[Dustyroads]

I think, in the case of more mature drivers, one has to work slower with the heavier dispatches, just to pace oneself to make it through a 10 or 11 hour dispatch. If I have 8 hours of work, I can work faster and harder, as I'm only having to work/drive for 8 hours. If I know that I will have to complete 11 hours of work, I must work slower all day, to have the strength and energy to complete my day safely.

 

[brownIEman]

I think, in the case of more mature drivers, one has to work slower with the heavier dispatches, just to pace oneself to make it through a 10 or 11 hour dispatch. If I have 8 hours of work, I can work faster and harder, as I'm only having to work/drive for 8 hours. If I know that I will have to complete 11 hours of work, I must work slower all day, to have the strength and energy to complete my day safely.

As really it should be. Also, you would help your on-road/and or dispatch supervisor make the argument that the center is more productive with slightly fewer stops per car.

Unfortunately, most of the time it is the case that a center is more productive the more stops per car that are pushed into the routes. Which is why Darth is such a fan of stuffing the cars to the gills.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

And While I have not been a driver, I have been on many, many rides over multiple days, and seen the change in a driver from a day when the car is light and when it is bricked out. Most drivers I have ridden with tend to be stressed and push themselves harder and faster with heavier loads in an effor to get through it all. That has been my experience...

That is likely due to the fact it was a ride-along to begin with. Although I wasnt there to be the judge of that, when a sup rides along with me, I'm going to hit it pretty hard and make sure not to cut any corners at the same time. This is a much more difficult job when you follow all methods, take an hour lunch and all breaks, and etc. I think, at least in many cases, you would have seen a different driver outside of the ride-along on those days.

 

[Jones]

That is likely due to the fact it was a ride-along to begin with. Although I wasnt there to be the judge of that, when a sup rides along with me, I'm going to hit it pretty hard and make sure not to cut any corners at the same time. This is a much more difficult job when you follow all methods, take an hour lunch and all breaks, and etc. I think, at least in many cases, you would have seen a different driver outside of the ride-along on those days.

I disagree pretty strongly with that statement. It might seem more difficult at first to a driver who has been doing everything the "wrong" way and has developed bad habits, but once you get used to doing things by the book, you'll realize that it's much easier on you physically, and you stand a far greater chance of making through to retirement with all your joints in working order. You'll also find that ride alongs cease to be a source of stress as you desperately try to do things differently according to your vague memories of what the methods are. Instead you just do things the same you always do, plus you get a free lunch

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I disagree pretty strongly with that statement. It might seem more difficult at first to a driver who has been doing everything the "wrong" way and has developed bad habits, but once you get used to doing things by the book, you'll realize that it's much easier on you physically, and you stand a far greater chance of making through to retirement with all your joints in working order. You'll also find that ride alongs cease to be a source of stress as you desperately try to do things differently according to your vague memories of what the methods are. Instead you just do things the same you always do, plus you get a free lunch

I agree with that somewhat, depends on which methods we are cutting out.

But, if you consider these two things just for starters : lunches/breaks and following edd stop for stop, following methods, you will never ever get into bldg earlier and home earlier by following methods.

 

[dilligaf]

You are correct, it does sound like I am stating an assumed fact. I withdraw it. So consider it not something I feel I know is true, consider it one proposed theory.

If you have another for a group of drivers having fewer average stops and fewer piece counts yet coming in on average in the same amount of time I would like to hear it. Weather and road conditions were the same, so it was not that. Stop distribution was also almost identical, just spread among over more routes.

As an added piece of data, misload numbers where nearly identical. In fact, as I recall, there were fewer misloads on the day routes were added.

BTW, re-reading it also looks like I am saying drivers with lesser work loads are making a conscious decision to work slower. While I believe my theory to be valid, I do not think the lesser performance with less work is a conscious thing. I believe it to be more subconscious. And While I have not been a driver, I have been on many, many rides over multiple days, and seen the change in a driver from a day when the car is light and when it is bricked out. Most drivers I have ridden with tend to be stressed and push themselves harder and faster with heavier loads in an effor to get through it all. That has been my experience...

I have to address this as well bronwIE.

1 Your theory - I agree with you in that it may be a subconcious thing. I say this from experience. This was brought to my attention via a 3 day ride along and someone that is no longer in the system to help me see this. I was not aware of what I was doing and have since corrected the issue.

2 Stressed out - Again I agree. It is difficult, to say the least, to come in see your truck brick loaded and not be stressed out. To not push harder to 'get through' it as you say. This is also true - 'The faster I go the farther behind I get'. Mistakes happen when a driver is stressed that far. Things get forgotten. Extra miles are added on because of these. Extra time is added on. There are drawbacks, real and definable drawbacks to brickloading. The drivers know it, why can't the company see it? Not to mention the safety aspect of trying to deliver a brickload. Drivers get hurt this way.

 

[brownIEman]

I agree with that somewhat, depends on which methods we are cutting out.

But, if you consider these two things just for starters : lunches/breaks and following edd stop for stop, following methods, you will never ever get into bldg earlier and home earlier by following methods.

I see this complaint about following edd stop for stop a ton on this board. And not once have I seen it accompanied by the actual corporate rule: follow edd stop for stop to at least 85%. If your center team is telling you they want you 100% on trace, they are either miss informed or lying. The corporate goal is 85% so you have the flexibility to adjust for things like road closures and light volume that allows you a chance to hit a resi neighborhood while running bus. so you do not have to come back to a certain part of town. Things the PAS plan does not take into account.
Generally, if you cannot follow trace to at least 85% and be more efficient then the trace needs to be looked at, not the drivers methods.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I see this complaint about following edd stop for stop a ton on this board. And not once have I seen it accompanied by the actual corporate rule: follow edd stop for stop to at least 85%. If your center team is telling you they want you 100% on trace, they are either miss informed or lying. The corporate goal is 85% so you have the flexibility to adjust for things like road closures and light volume that allows you a chance to hit a resi neighborhood while running bus. so you do not have to come back to a certain part of town. Things the PAS plan does not take into account.
Generally, if you cannot follow trace to at least 85% and be more efficient then the trace needs to be looked at, not the drivers methods.

I have never heard of that 85% corporate rule, being new and not told much about policies, but it is good to know that.

 

[Jones]

I agree with that somewhat, depends on which methods we are cutting out.

But, if you consider these two things just for starters : lunches/breaks and following edd stop for stop, following methods, you will never ever get into bldg earlier and home earlier by following methods.

Neither of those two things is a method. And while skipping your lunch might get you in earlier initially, as soon as that behavior gets noticed you will be getting assigned more work.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Neither of those two things is a method. And while skipping your lunch might get you in earlier initially, as soon as that behavior gets noticed you will be getting assigned more work.

100% wrong. Both of those are most certainly in the 340 methods, section 4 and 10

 

[Jones]

100% wrong. Both of those are most certainly in the 340 methods, section 4 and 10

Everything written in that book is not a "method", some it is just rules you are supposed to follow. Taking your negotiated lunch and breaks is one of those rules. There is not a UPS "method" for eating lunch. Following EDD is not a "method" either, and even if it was nowhere in that book does it say you must be 100% in trace.
Methods are things like package selection, safe work methods, etc.
But yes, you should take your lunch and breaks. Even if it's not a method, it will help you out in the long run.
Remember also that the point I was initially addressing was this:
This is a much more difficult job when you follow all methods, take an hour lunch and all breaks, and etc.
I still don't see your reasoning as to how doing those things will make the job more difficult.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Everything written in that book is not a "method", some it is just rules you are supposed to follow. Taking your negotiated lunch and breaks is one of those rules. There is not a UPS "method" for eating lunch. Following EDD is not a "method" either, and even if it was nowhere in that book does it say you must be 100% in trace.
Methods are things like package selection, safe work methods, etc.
But yes, you should take your lunch and breaks. Even if it's not a method, it will help you out in the long run.

You are so wrong.

Want me to quote the 340 methods section 10?

I. Personal time
A. Enter the time that you start and finish your lunch/meal into the DIAD time card screen as you take it. You are required to take yoru full personal time.
B. Secure the DIAD in the cargo area during lunch and break or take the DIAD with you.


So as you can see, you are wrong, it certainly is a method, by UPS definition.

 

[Jones]

You are so wrong.

Want me to quote the 340 methods section 10?

I. Personal time
A. Enter the time that you start and finish your lunch/meal into the DIAD time card screen as you take it. You are required to take your full personal time.
B. Secure the DIAD in the cargo area during lunch and break or take the DIAD with you.


So as you can see, you are wrong, it certainly is a method, by UPS definition.

Thank you for quoting me the rule
The only parts of that section that could possibly be construed as a "method" is the bit about entering your lunch in the DIAD and securing the DIAD in the cargo area. Actually taking your hour lunch is a rule.
I'm still not seeing how all this makes your day more difficult?

 

[ol'browneye]

Instead you just do things the same you always do, plus you get a free lunch

Where the hell do you work? I haven't gotten a free lunch from a supe in years! In fact the last time a supe rode with me I bought him lunch because he was going to pay for a hot dog with a credit card and I refused to let him do that to the clerk!

 

[dilligaf]

I see this complaint about following edd stop for stop a ton on this board. And not once have I seen it accompanied by the actual corporate rule: follow edd stop for stop to at least 85%. If your center team is telling you they want you 100% on trace, they are either miss informed or lying. The corporate goal is 85% so you have the flexibility to adjust for things like road closures and light volume that allows you a chance to hit a resi neighborhood while running bus. so you do not have to come back to a certain part of town. Things the PAS plan does not take into account.
Generally, if you cannot follow trace to at least 85% and be more efficient then the trace needs to be looked at, not the drivers methods.

BrownIE, can you explain in some detail how 85% of trace is determined? I have never heard any explanation of how this is figured out.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

When I was in package, the minute I figured I was screwed, especially if I thought I was going to go over 9.5, I would start backing off my pace. But if there was a chance I would be done in 8 and skate, I would push real hard to get done. You see, The Simpsons re-runs would start at 6:30 and I would work my ass off to see the 1 1/2 hour long block of them .

 

[brownIEman]

BrownIE, can you explain in some detail how 85% of trace is determined? I have never heard any explanation of how this is figured out.

Your percent trace is calculated by taking your total number of stops, and dividing into the number of stops that by trace should have been delivered prior to your previous delivery.

So, as an example, lets say I have 100 stops. I am working along on trace, when I realize that my business and p/u's are light today, and that if I break off and grab 20 residencial stops in the morning, I will still be able to get my business done and will not have to come back to this subdivision later thus saving miles. So I turn, and make the first resi stop. Now, by trace, the first resi stop I make should not occur for say 45 more stops, but it is LATER in the order than the last stop I made, so I have not broken trace yet. I make all 20 resi stops in order. I still have not broken trace. When I come back to my next scheduled bus. stop, that stop is by trace way before the last resi I just did, so that is my first trace break. Assuming I do no other trace breaks the rest of the day, I have 1 break divided by 100 stops for 99% effective.

So with 100 stops, you can deliver 15 stops in reverse trace order and still be in compliance with the 85% goal.

hope this helps...

 

[dilligaf]

Your percent trace is calculated by taking your total number of stops, and dividing into the number of stops that by trace should have been delivered prior to your previous delivery.

So, as an example, lets say I have 100 stops. I am working along on trace, when I realize that my business and p/u's are light today, and that if I break off and grab 20 residencial stops in the morning, I will still be able to get my business done and will not have to come back to this subdivision later thus saving miles. So I turn, and make the first resi stop. Now, by trace, the first resi stop I make should not occur for say 45 more stops, but it is LATER in the order than the last stop I made, so I have not broken trace yet. I make all 20 resi stops in order. I still have not broken trace. When I come back to my next scheduled bus. stop, that stop is by trace way before the last resi I just did, so that is my first trace break. Assuming I do no other trace breaks the rest of the day, I have 1 break divided by 100 stops for 99% effective.

So with 100 stops, you can deliver 15 stops in reverse trace order and still be in compliance with the 85% goal.

hope this helps...

Yes actually it does. Basically what you are saying is, everytime I go backwards in EDD it counts as a break. Thank you, this is something that has never been explained.