A supervisor stands up to the IE manager...and pays the price

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
I contend that most time is lost in the back of the package car "massaging" the load.

I know of no one who takes pleasure "massaging" the load. One has to do this because the load is never right. Never. No matter how much you ask. It is insulting to insinuate that the drivers are to blame for not asking for help. I pleaded for it, as I am sure many do.

It is also unethical to blame drivers for the condition of their loads and then hold them accountable when they have to "massage" them. As has been stated on these forums before, I.E. knows that package selection is a problem, and they know who is to blame. And it certainly isn't the drivers.

When I was in package I would deliver all my airs and any bulk that prevented me from proper selection. Then, if the package car was sufficiently clear, I would sort the entire car. Sometimes it took 20 minutes to do this. But guess what, I never had to sort again for the rest of the day.

Do the right thing, add 15 to 30 minutes sort time to each driver. Numbers problems will be solved. And it will not increase the paid day because drivers are doing this anyways. But now they are getting beat over the head for it.

Or fix the pre-load. But we all know that will never happen. Millions of dollars spent on PAS/EDD prove it.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Do the right thing, add 15 to 30 minutes sort time to each driver. Numbers problems will be solved. And it will not increase the paid day because drivers are doing this anyways. But now they are getting beat over the head for it.

Or fix the pre-load. But we all know that will never happen. Millions of dollars spent on PAS/EDD prove it.

The goal for IE has always been to pressure the driver into sorting his load off of the clock. The easiest way for them to accomplish this has been to simply not "allow" any time for this necessary aspect of the job, and count on a combination of pressure, harassment, and human nature to do the rest. They know the load has to be sorted; they dont want to pay you to do it; so they simply pretend that it isnt necessary and refuse to allow any time for it to be done.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
so those are the only 2 options available huh, brainless android or forget the system all together. No other options, no possible middle ground?

Tell you what, how about we reduce your hourly pay rate to $10.00. It is just a number, it doesn't mean anything.

The job of a delivery driver is already hard enough without having to jump through a bunch of hoops so that some guy behind a desk can look at a number. I have more important things to worry about than generating statistics.

I'm going to do the job as efficiently as I can. You have me on Telematics; you can sit there and look at my trace on your monitor; if you have a problem with the decisions that I am making out there you have every right to question me about them.

What you arent going to do...is to make me obsess over some arbitrary 85% number. Either I do it my way....or I do it your way. You are the boss, and its your choice whether you want to trust me or not. If you want to micromanage me down to the gnat's ass, go right ahead. Or you can leave me the hell alone and let me get the job done. I get paid the same either way.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I can assure you that neither the company nor the union wants you to skip your lunch, It does nothing but put them all in a bad position.

UPS's entire business plan has always been based upon coercing a given percentage of drivers into working through their lunch and breaks in order to meet a "standard" that has been rigged like a cheap carnival game.

9 drivers who skip their lunch will accomplish the same amount of work as 10 drivers who take their lunch....which means one less employee on the payroll, one less benefit/retirement package to fund, one less vehicle using fuel and time to go to/from the building, etc etc.

UPS has saved millions of dollars a year for many decades by screwing its people out of their lunches and breaks. Its all part of the plan.
 

Omega man

Well-Known Member
Everything written in that book is not a "method", some it is just rules you are supposed to follow. Taking your negotiated lunch and breaks is one of those rules. There is not a UPS "method" for eating lunch. Following EDD is not a "method" either, and even if it was nowhere in that book does it say you must be 100% in trace.
Methods are things like package selection, safe work methods, etc.
But yes, you should take your lunch and breaks. Even if it's not a method, it will help you out in the long run.
Remember also that the point I was initially addressing was this:
This is a much more difficult job when you follow all methods, take an hour lunch and all breaks, and etc.
I still don't see your reasoning as to how doing those things will make the job more difficult.


Following all the methods means you are doing the full and complete job. It will always take longer to do the complete job instead of taking short cuts all day long. The job becomes more difficult because of the extra effort and time needed to do all those "methods". I could run all day long with my bulkhead door open, throw packages at the bottom of driveways, speed, sign for packages, call pickups and save all kind of time. I choose to follow UPS' methods, which take me a lot longer to do my job.
 

Omega man

Well-Known Member
Oh contrare monfrare, if you are locked in to a certain SPOHR you can and will be held acountable to that SPORH.

I will agree that the numbers will have to be similar but if you go out and certify at 19.5 Sporh with a sup on car and then start running 17 SPORH without sup, you will pay the price.



Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!...Lock in rides? Are you kidding? We are not “locked in” to anything. SPORH is variable. It not only changes within the week, but also as we progress through the year. Try shoveling your nonsense elsewhere.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Following all the methods means you are doing the full and complete job. It will always take longer to do the complete job instead of taking short cuts all day long. The job becomes more difficult because of the extra effort and time needed to do all those "methods". I could run all day long with my bulkhead door open, throw packages at the bottom of driveways, speed, sign for packages, call pickups and save all kind of time. I choose to follow UPS' methods, which take me a lot longer to do my job.
I can agree that it might take longer than running and gunning, but if you really believe that job becomes more difficult if you use the proper methods, you either haven't been driving very long or you're just not very skilled at using the methods.
 

Omega man

Well-Known Member
I can agree that it might take longer than running and gunning, but if you really believe that job becomes more difficult if you use the proper methods, you either haven't been driving very long or you're just not very skilled at using the methods.



Sorry, been driving 27 years. I'm sure I know the methods very, very well. Do you need a copy? I have to use them all the time in the office against ignorant management on behalf of those I represent.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Sorry, been driving 27 years. I'm sure I know the methods very, very well. Do you need a copy? I have to use them all the time in the office against ignorant management on behalf of those I represent.
If that's the case then I guess we just disagree. I was a gunner for my first 6 or 7 years, in part because I thought making a lot of bonus was the mark of a "good" driver and was more important than taking my breaks and doing the job right. I "knew" the methods, but I didn't really use them and consequently wasn't very good at them and thought they were just a hassle. I wised up eventually, like most drivers do, and I can honestly say that it makes my day a lot easier. It's been a long time since I made any bonus (though the truth is that time studies took care of most of that), but I'm a lot less stressed out and I feel a lot better physically at the end of the day. Most of the guys I talk to in my center feel the same way. The only drivers I hear talking about how difficult the job becomes when they use the methods are the gunners who have this weird idea that doing the job correctly is a way to punish the company whenever they get mad about being given a split. Some guy who normally runs an hour under comes in two hours over (because he got a 10 stop split), and when the boss asks him what happened he says "took his lunch and followed the methods". If you really believe that explanation I've got a bridge to sell you :wink2:
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Jones, I just saw the stuffed version of your avatar hanging from the trailer hitch of a car today. What is it?
I didn't know my boss was driving around upstate NY :happy-very:.


It's a Domo-Kun(Japanese plush toy), but for some reason it reminds me of an angry UPS driver.
Here's a couple of them doing the lord's work:
God-kills-kitten.jpg
 
The job of a delivery driver is already hard enough without having to jump through a bunch of hoops so that some guy behind a desk can look at a number. I have more important things to worry about than generating statistics.

I'm going to do the job as efficiently as I can. You have me on Telematics; you can sit there and look at my trace on your monitor; if you have a problem with the decisions that I am making out there you have every right to question me about them.

What you arent going to do...is to make me obsess over some arbitrary 85% number. Either I do it my way....or I do it your way. You are the boss, and its your choice whether you want to trust me or not. If you want to micromanage me down to the gnat's ass, go right ahead. Or you can leave me the hell alone and let me get the job done. I get paid the same either way.

Sober,
You are already a statistic...you have an employee number!
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I know of no one who takes pleasure "massaging" the load. Not so sure I would agree with that. There are drivers who feel a whole lot better after they set their car up. However, I do not believe a driver should have to set the car up. That is what the preload is for. Massage was in quotes for a reason... it was meant to be satirical... I should have realized that some would not see it that way. I apologize for not making it more obvious. It wasn't meant to rile anyone up.

One has to do this because the load is never right. Never. No matter how much you ask. Stop asking and demand it! You have a shop steward, get that person involved if your management team is that bad.

It is insulting to insinuate that the drivers are to blame for not asking for help. I pleaded for it, as I am sure many do. It is also unethical to blame drivers for the condition of their loads and then hold them accountable when they have to "massage" them. You always have options... the squeaky wheel gets the oil ESPECIALLY if someone is trying to hold you accountable.

As has been stated on these forums before, I.E. knows that package selection is a problem, and they know who is to blame. And it certainly isn't the drivers. You need to clarify this. Package selection is the driver and the driver needs to let the supervisor know that the car is not being loaded in proper sequence.

When I was in package I would deliver all my airs and any bulk that prevented me from proper selection. Then, if the package car was sufficiently clear, I would sort the entire car. Sometimes it took 20 minutes to do this. But guess what, I never had to sort again for the rest of the day.

Do the right thing, add 15 to 30 minutes sort time to each driver. Numbers problems will be solved. And it will not increase the paid day because drivers are doing this anyways. But now they are getting beat over the head for it. UPS is not going to pay you to do the same job the preload is suppose to do. If you had your own business would you pay two employees to do the same job and OH let's pay the second one double or triple the wage of the first employee?? I don't think so! LOL

Or fix the pre-load. Now you are talking ... this is the right thing to do! FIX the preload.

But we all know that will never happen. Millions of dollars spent on PAS/EDD prove it.
Sounds like you have already decided to raise the white flag.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!...Lock in rides? Are you kidding? We are not “locked in” to anything. SPORH is variable. It not only changes within the week, but also as we progress through the year. Try shoveling your nonsense elsewhere.

You can laugh all you want but if your management team decides to lock in on you and they certify you on the 340 methods and you don't follow the methods you will be on the street at some point. Don't be smug about this. You may put your job in jeopardy if you take this approach. Is it worth losing your job?

Remember - It isn't SPORH - It is methods. SPORH is a measure that helps to determine your use of the methods. If you are using the methods, you will average a certain SPORH while the supervisor is on car with you over 3 days. That average will help measure your ability to use the methods. If you deviate off of the norm and your SPORH continues to decline for no apparent reason... you will have another OJS and it will become a more intense work with.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
UPS's entire business plan has always been based upon coercing a given percentage of drivers into working through their lunch and breaks in order to meet a "standard" that has been rigged like a cheap carnival game.

9 drivers who skip their lunch will accomplish the same amount of work as 10 drivers who take their lunch....which means one less employee on the payroll, one less benefit/retirement package to fund, one less vehicle using fuel and time to go to/from the building, etc etc.

UPS has saved millions of dollars a year for many decades by screwing its people out of their lunches and breaks. Its all part of the plan.

Here is where I have to disagree with you. You can never back up your remarks above... You may have seen this in your world up in Oregon but it is not part of the UPS culture to rig standards or coerce drivers and others into not taking a lunch or break.

We have no one to blame but ourselves if we allowed UPS to get into our heads that way.

Has UPS tightened the allowances up. Absolutely. Especially with all the technology enhancements over the last several years.

Back in the mid 1900's, the wages and benefits were a lot cheaper and more affordable for the company to absorb. We were growing by leaps and bounds. If a recession hit, the company absorbed it. Now, each route added or every tenth of a stop in performance decrease, costs the company millions and millions of dollars. The company has determined the best operating ratio and is applying that formula during this economic depression. (Granted - you may not like it but you have a job! Don't forget, it is affecting mgmt also!!!)

But screwing people out of their lunches is not part of the plan!!! I know you know this is not true on a district - region or corporate level.

You have only to look at your southern border (CA) to see it is not true. Before I retired we actually had a manager who pulled the lunch report for every driver in the district. There were managers disciplining drivers for not taking their lunch and breaks.

The lunch and break thing was more of a culture that was born from bonus. Drivers wanted to make that bonus and did what they had to. These drivers became supervisors who proliferated the same process. You didn't see this sort of thing in areas of the country that were not on bonus.
 
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pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!...Lock in rides? Are you kidding? We are not “locked in” to anything. SPORH is variable. It not only changes within the week, but also as we progress through the year. Try shoveling your nonsense elsewhere.

So, SPORH is irrelevant to guage and "lock in" performance.
Over / Under is not accurate, so we cannot use that.

There is no way to determine driver performance then? Of course, I assume that that was going to be your argument anyway.

I guess there is no way to determine how many hours to expect a route to take? If that's the case, how can you blame management for over dispatching you?

P-Man
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
UPS's entire business plan has always been based upon coercing a given percentage of drivers into working through their lunch and breaks in order to meet a "standard" that has been rigged like a cheap carnival game.

9 drivers who skip their lunch will accomplish the same amount of work as 10 drivers who take their lunch....which means one less employee on the payroll, one less benefit/retirement package to fund, one less vehicle using fuel and time to go to/from the building, etc etc.

UPS has saved millions of dollars a year for many decades by screwing its people out of their lunches and breaks. Its all part of the plan.

You started this thread and others with self proclaimed satire. This post is also comedy.

All comedy has a thread of truth. Dilbert exists because all organizations have plenty to laugh at themselves about.

P-Man
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
Funny, yet sad story. First day on road by myself.

Today I had 99 stops (mostly business, maybe 30 house call), 265 pc, 23 pickups, 165 pc

This is a 6 to 6.5 hour planned day according to the company and I.E.

Supervisor who followed me around all day in personal vehicle told me to not walk up stairs to residences, but throw the packages to the door. Supervisor instructed me to walk through peoples yards and even at one point a lovely flower garden to get to front door, rather than driveway and walkway.

I did not get a full meal period. I took a 10 minute break to basically sort the truck, a 15 minute "lunch" around 3:15pm, and another 10 minutes (useless) at 5:50pm because I was waiting for a letter box.

Does anyone believe the company has any interest in the employees safety, their well-being, the customers packages, a full lunch period between the 4th and 5th hour, 2 10 minute paid breaks plus 1 full unpaid hour?
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
I can agree that it might take longer than running and gunning, but if you really believe that job becomes more difficult if you use the proper methods, you either haven't been driving very long or you're just not very skilled at using the methods.
I caught the taking longer part from omega, but not the more difficult.

Funny, yet sad story. First day on road by myself.

Today I had 99 stops (mostly business, maybe 30 house call), 265 pc, 23 pickups, 165 pc

This is a 6 to 6.5 hour planned day according to the company and I.E.

Supervisor who followed me around all day in personal vehicle told me to not walk up stairs to residences, but throw the packages to the door. Supervisor instructed me to walk through peoples yards and even at one point a lovely flower garden to get to front door, rather than driveway and walkway.

I did not get a full meal period. I took a 10 minute break to basically sort the truck, a 15 minute "lunch" around 3:15pm, and another 10 minutes (useless) at 5:50pm because I was waiting for a letter box.

Does anyone believe the company has any interest in the employees safety, their well-being, the customers packages, a full lunch period between the 4th and 5th hour, 2 10 minute paid breaks plus 1 full unpaid hour?
You know the rules, Sleeve. You let them walk all over you instead of doing the route by the methods. Sorting does not require break time. Sorting is working and if you twist your wrist or something, you were working, and don't even get me started about lunch!
 
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