accident in gated sub

[tieguy]

Tieguy your like talking to a yapping dog. Its a waste of my time. Im not here to play your childish games Im here to help others, recieve help, share info and meet new people. Sorry your so hurt by my teeth comment(LOL). By the way it was a figurative comment not a literal comment. Did I make the ignore list yet? I dont care either way. A person that conducts themselves as you do makes me lose respect for them.

swordfish looks like another dodge.

 

[Re-Raise]

Again its their job to investigate the accident after you have one.

Your response indicates that there is some higher version of quantum physics involved in driving a package car the prevents management from being allowed to investigate the stupidity that resulted in your wrecking our package car.

Perhaps we can comprimise and have a pity party first before we tell you to get your head out of your ass?

It really is too bad that no one , and I really mean NO ONE, will leave the driver ranks to go into management anymore. It takes too long to make it from part-time to full-time anymore and no one believes management is a step up from there.

So unfortunately we end up with people like Tieguy who drive for a few of weeks at peak. The last management candidate who drove at peak for us had three accidents in less than two months. Then they sent him to the Chicago area to be driver sup.

I have just shy of 20 yrs safe driving , I do use safe driving methods and can sometimes overcome another driver's mistakes. I would never be arrogant enough to call another driver stupid because someone backed into him and he couldn't avoid it.

It is too bad we end up with part-timers who are too far out to make it to driver or outside hires in all of the management positions.

 

[browned out]

The driver was only 17. In Michigan all new drivers (15 to 18) have to be on probation for three years. Any accidents extend their probationary period and necessitate additional safety training. So we took a safe UPS driver off the road and let an unsafe driver who should have been ticketed stay on the road. I hope the next time she doesn't back over a kid. Unreal

I will try to post state law requiring all accidents to be reported over $1000 and the teen probation info. I gave copies to every driver and Center Manager and full time sups. We run over a landscape light and have to report it. UPS breaks the law by not reporting an accident in the $1000s. Funny how things don't apply equally in more and more ways everyday.


Here is one of the State of Michigan laws UPS violated

[/URL]Probation Explained New drivers, including teen drivers under Graduated Driver Licensing, are placed on probation for a minimum of three years. The probationary period is a way for the Secretary of State to monitor the driving performance of new drivers. Although probation is a separate program from GDL, the objective of both programs is to help young drivers reduce their crash risk and drive safely.

Each traffic violation entered on your driver record during probation will result in a contact by the Secretary of State. Because probationary drivers who receive tickets are at a high risk of being involved in a crash, these contacts will become progressively more severe in response to continued unsafe driving. These contacts range from warning letters to a driver assessment reexamination. At a driver assessment reexamination, a combination of restrictions and suspension may be imposed on your license. The purpose of these contacts is to encourage safer driving and reduce the risk of a traffic crash. Probationary licensing controls will also extend the time a young driver holds a GDL Level 1 or 2 license.

Probationary drivers must complete the last ten months of probation with no unsafe driving events, such as traffic convictions, at-fault crashes, or suspensions. If an unsafe driving event occurs in the last ten months of probation, the probationary period is extended until the driver completes ten consecutive months without an incident.

The first two years after probation are called post probation. You are subject to a driver assessment reexamination during this time if you have nine or more points and an alcohol-related ticket or crash, or other at-fault crash.

Points placed on your driver record during probation or post probation are not automatically erased when probation and post probation end. Points remain on your driving record for two years from the conviction date.

 

[browned out]

Here is another State of Michigan law violation. I am sure there are more but I have neither the time or the inclination to look more up after 11.5 on road.
2007 Michigan Traffic Crash Facts - Statewide
MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE
Public Act 300 of 1949
The driver of a motor vehicle involved in an accident that
injures or kills any person, or that damages property to an apparent extent totaling $1,000.00
or more, shall immediately report that accident at the nearest or most convenient police
station, or to the nearest or most convenient police officer. The officer receiving the report, or
his or her commanding officer, shall immediately forward each report to the director of the
Department of State Police on forms prescribed by the director of the Department of State
Police (State of Michigan Traffic Crash Report, also known as the UD-10). The forms shall be
completed in full by the investigating officer. The director of the Department of State Police
shall analyze each report relative to the cause of the reported accident and shall prepare
information compiled from reports filed under this section for public use. A copy of the report
under this section . . . shall be retained for at least three years at the local police department,
sheriff's department, or local state police post making the report. (As the repository of the UD-
10's submitted by all Michigan law enforcement agencies, the Department of State Police
processes all UD-10's received at the Criminal Justice Information Center (CJIC). The CJIC
retains an electronic copy of UD-10's for ten years plus the current processing year.
Electronic databases containing information from UD-10's prior to this time period are purged.)
MCL 257.624, Amended 1980 - (1) A report required by this chapter shall not be available for
use in a court action, but a report shall be for the purpose of furnishing statistical information
regarding the number and cause of accidents.
(2) The Office of Highway Safety Planning (OHSP) may authorize scientific studies and
research for the reduction of death, injury, and property losses. All information, records of
interviews, written reports, statements, notes, memoranda, or other data collected pursuant to
the scientific studies and research conducted by the state, or by other persons, agencies, or
organizations authorized by OHSP shall be used solely for the purpose of medical or scientific
research and shall not disclose the name or identity of a person unless the person authorizes,
in writing, the use of his or her name or identity. If a subject of the research study is
deceased, the executor or heir of the deceased person may authorize, in writing, the
disclosure of the deceased's name or identity. The furnishing of information to OHSP or to a
representative of an authorized study or research project shall not subject a person, hospital,
sanitarium, rest home, nursing home, or other person or agency furnishing the information to
any action for damages or other relief. The information, records, reports, statements, notes,
memoranda, or other data shall not be admissible as evidence in a court or before any other
tribunal, board, agency, or person. A person participating in an authorized study or research
project shall not disclose, directly or indirectly, the information so obtained except in strict
conformity with the research project.

Our driver was taken off the road while an unsafe driver who is required by state law to receive more training is allowed to stay on the road. Driver pulled off because damage appeared to be over 4400 dollars. Michigan State Law requires all accidents to be reported to the Police Dept. if over $1000. How can it be explained that UPS instucted our driver not to call the police; and to add insult to injury; charge our driver with an avoidable accident.

 

[SWORDFISH]

I hope something is being done about this situation?

 

[tieguy]

I hope something is being done about this situation?

you want the driver to get fined for violating the law?

 

[browned out]

you want the driver to get fined for violating the law?

Driver was instructed by management not to report accident to the police department. Contract states to do as instructed unless it endangers your safety.

This is not a winnable argument. If you are saying driver could be charged with avoidable accident; I say maybe.

If you are trying to condone management's blatant disrespect and disregard for Michigan laws; Not a snowball's chance in hell.

 

[SWORDFISH]

Driver was instructed by management not to report accident to the police department. Contract states to do as instructed unless it endangers your safety.

This is not a winnable argument. If you are saying driver could be charged with avoidable accident; I say maybe.

If you are trying to condone management's blatant disrespect and disregard for Michigan laws; Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Hes just being a pesky fly. Nothing important to say.

If I were the driver I would talk to the police seems how he is going through so much trouble.

 

[tieguy]

Here is another State of Michigan law violation. I am sure there are more but I have neither the time or the inclination to look more up after 11.5 on road.
2007 Michigan Traffic Crash Facts - Statewide
MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE
Public Act 300 of 1949
The driver of a motor vehicle involved in an accident that
injures or kills any person, or that damages property to an apparent extent totaling $1,000.00
or more, shall immediately report that accident at the nearest or most convenient police
station, or to the nearest or most convenient police officer.

Driver was instructed by management not to report accident to the police department. Contract states to do as instructed unless it endangers your safety.

This is not a winnable argument. If you are saying driver could be charged with avoidable accident; I say maybe.

If you are trying to condone management's blatant disrespect and disregard for Michigan laws; Not a snowball's chance in hell.

I'm not interested in winning some stupid argument about who to blame. I'm simply pointing out that the quote you provided clearly says the driver has the responsibility to immediately call. Someone told me to violate the law is not normally considered a very good defense in a court of law. I know you are hell bent on blaming the company for this gross violation of the law. Forgive me for being the voice of reason in pointing out that the driver could have some liability here.

 

[brownmonster]

Report all accidents and injuries so the bosses can work on a way to wiggle out of them.

 

[grgrcr88]

We were told by management "we had to take him out of service; it is not us it is DOT

Here is the exact verb age from contract article 17 central region (d) gross negligence resulting in a serious accident. a serious accident is described as one in which there is a fatality. ..... or $4400.00 or more in damages.

Driver of car told center manager and on car sup that it was 100 percent her fault. center manager and oncar reenacted this accident four times at exact location. Oncar stated he believed it to be unavoidable. Short driveways and around curve. Our driver was at the point where he could have stopped and taken the hit broadside or speed up and try to get out of way. He was on the horn the whole time. Car hit package car in very back on drivers side. Very minor damage to our truck. In service the next day with scratches no more than what the car washers or tree branches do.

Do you understand the difference between DOT(Department of transportation) and the National Master United Parcel Service Agreement? You keep saying its a DOT reg and the Quote language from the Union/Company agreed upon contract book. The contract book has absolutely nothing to do with the Department of Transportation, it is simply an agreement between two parties that has the backing of law.

 

[grgrcr88]

Again its their job to investigate the accident after you have one.

Your response indicates that there is some higher version of quantum physics involved in driving a package car the prevents management from being allowed to investigate the stupidity that resulted in your wrecking our package car.

Perhaps we can comprimise and have a pity party first before we tell you to get your head out of your ass?

I don't think anyone is arguing that the sups should investigate every accident, I see the problem as management must find blame for every crash by every driver. No matter what happens you guys will blame the UPS driver, if you cannot find any true fault you fall back on the Expect the Unexpected. This is not my first time around the block, I know the directives come from way up the line, and that is the problem, you must find something the driver did wrong and show your boss what your going to do to fix it or it's your ass on the line!!Every once in a while, something happens that even the best, most defensive driver in the world cannot avoid. I think everyone would just like to hear management acknowledge that fact!!

 

[grgrcr88]

It really is too bad that no one , and I really mean NO ONE, will leave the driver ranks to go into management anymore. It takes too long to make it from part-time to full-time anymore and no one believes management is a step up from there.

So unfortunately we end up with people like Tieguy who drive for a few of weeks at peak. The last management candidate who drove at peak for us had three accidents in less than two months. Then they sent him to the Chicago area to be driver sup.

I have just shy of 20 yrs safe driving , I do use safe driving methods and can sometimes overcome another driver's mistakes. I would never be arrogant enough to call another driver stupid because someone backed into him and he couldn't avoid it.

It is too bad we end up with part-timers who are too far out to make it to driver or outside hires in all of the management positions.

Hah, we have 3 driver sup's in our building that have never been a driver in their lives!!! I am not sure one of them is even old enough to have a drivers liscense!!

 

[grgrcr88]

Driver was instructed by management not to report accident to the police department. Contract states to do as instructed unless it endangers your safety.

This is not a winnable argument. If you are saying driver could be charged with avoidable accident; I say maybe.

If you are trying to condone management's blatant disrespect and disregard for Michigan laws; Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Actually you are allowed to diregard a supervisors instructions if it is Immoral,Illigal or unsafe. The driver should have called the police himself, in fact it should have been the first call he made, then the center team. However, calling the police would have made no difference in UPS's investigation as to wether this driver was at fault or not. UPS uses their own guidlines in determining fault, that have nothing to do with law. In our area, all drivers are taken out of service for all accidents pending investigation. If the company wants to they will alllow a driver to work a non driving job during the coarse of the investigation. Once they determine if it is a terminatable offense or not, they then either return the driver to full duty, or give them the termination letter.

 

[tieguy]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the sups should investigate every accident, I see the problem as management must find blame for every crash by every driver. No matter what happens you guys will blame the UPS driver, if you cannot find any true fault you fall back on the Expect the Unexpected. This is not my first time around the block, I know the directives come from way up the line, and that is the problem, you must find something the driver did wrong and show your boss what your going to do to fix it or it's your ass on the line!!Every once in a while, something happens that even the best, most defensive driver in the world cannot avoid. I think everyone would just like to hear management acknowledge that fact!!

Grg,

I dont necessarily disagree with your point. we do try to find avoidability in every accident. My response was to a poster who seemed to make the point that management should not investigate accidents because we dont drive for a living.

 

[grgrcr88]

A driver in our center was delivering in a gated sub today. An 18 year old kid backs out of her driveway as fast as she can without looking and hits UPS truck while driver is driving it. Anyway tier 3 intersection accident, driver taken out of service per dot reg due to possibility of over 4400 dollars damage. The kid tells our center manager that it was her fault; she was jamming her radio and just backed out without looking.

Come to find out that the police were never called. Does anyone know if the police have to be called in case of an accident in a gated community?

What is going on with this case, has he been terminated officially and set for local hearing?

 

[grgrcr88]

Grg,

I dont necessarily disagree with your point. we do try to find avoidability in every accident. My response was to a poster who seemed to make the point that management should not investigate accidents because we dont drive for a living.

I understood your argument, however I think you may have misunderstood his comments slightly. By the way, How's your health? Hope your doing well.

 

[Re-Raise]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the sups should investigate every accident, I see the problem as management must find blame for every crash by every driver. No matter what happens you guys will blame the UPS driver, if you cannot find any true fault you fall back on the Expect the Unexpected. This is not my first time around the block, I know the directives come from way up the line, and that is the problem, you must find something the driver did wrong and show your boss what your going to do to fix it or it's your ass on the line!!Every once in a while, something happens that even the best, most defensive driver in the world cannot avoid. I think everyone would just like to hear management acknowledge that fact!!

Couldn't agree more. This is not my first time at the rodeo either, it is just the way it is. It just makes the union that much more important to protect us from management. Couldn't you just imagine them terminating drivers for $3 mirrors or hit while parked.

They can keep their safety awards , just treat us with a little respect and lose the arrogance that comes from 20-20 hindsight.

 

[UPS Lifer]

A driver in our center was delivering in a gated sub today. An 18 year old kid backs out of her driveway as fast as she can without looking and hits UPS truck while driver is driving it. Anyway tier 3 intersection accident, driver taken out of service per dot reg due to possibility of over 4400 dollars damage. The kid tells our center manager that it was her fault; she was jamming her radio and just backed out without looking.

Come to find out that the police were never called. Does anyone know if the police have to be called in case of an accident in a gated community?

You have more than one thing going here. If unsure call the police and let them figure it out. I live in a gated community and the streets are private. So what is the test. Was there an injury? Is there a firm $ amount that meets the test of filing a report? This is the criteria. If you don't know call the police. They will probably come out and see if it meets the test. They should know if the street is public or private.

 

[brownmonster]

You have more than one thing going here. If unsure call the police and let them figure it out. I live in a gated community and the streets are private. So what is the test. Was there an injury? Is there a firm $ amount that meets the test of filing a report? This is the criteria. If you don't know call the police. They will probably come out and see if it meets the test. They should know if the street is public or private.

Does the same hold true if I get in a wreck in a Mall parking lot or someones driveway or a trailer court?