Accountability

Catatonic

Nine Lives

There are only three rules of sound management: Pick good people, tell them not to cut corners, and back them to the limit.


Three very important rules to remember and apply but hardly the ONLY ones.
Maybe as a part-time supe ... friend/T Management is not a task-based job that can be summed up in three rules.
I do understand that these would be ones that are immediately apparent and important to non-management workers.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
There has been a lot of focus placed on accountablility over the last few years, much more so than in years past.

So are there limits to the accountability at UPS? Are there people that are exempt from being accountable? How far do we take accountability? To the point of termination?

I would really be interested in thoughts, especially those in supervision or upper management.

d
dannyboy,

Red tape often limits accountability at big corporations.

I have experienced some that act as if they are untouchable, the truth is that no one is.

Any employee of any company that refuses to follow written policy, procedure or job methods should ultimately be terminated.

In most instances, termination should only happen after much love, care, encouragement and direction is given to the wayward employee.

This should be done in hopes of helping to bring him or her back to correct conduct.

Sincerely,
I
 
dannyboy,

Red tape often limits accountability at big corporations.

I have experienced some that act as if they are untouchable, the truth is that no one is.

Any employee of any company that refuses to follow written policy, procedure or job methods should ultimately be terminated.

In most instances, termination should only happen after much love, care, encouragement and direction is given to the wayward employee.

This should be done in hopes of helping to bring him or her back to correct conduct.

Sincerely,
I
Integrity are you on a paid vacation this week?
 

Dragon

Package Center Manager
You don't think I know this?? Read the original post by Dannyboy. Then reread my post I'm not trying to rattle the world with some earth shaking revelation. I'm just stating the obvious. Where did you get from my post that you answer to me. I work as directed for you. When I'm in my representational capacity I'm your equal. Don't forget this because I don't forget who I am and my honesty is the only thing I've got.

407 sorry, It looks like I replyed to the wrong post...

I am not questioning your honesty either......
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
I see many of the managers are pulling their punches or not posting at all on this one.

Example, if a manager orders an employee to do something that has a high percentage of chance that the employee will be seriously hurt or killed, should they be held accountable if said employee ends up hurt or dead?

We already know what happens when a driver makes that type of decision with his package car, he either gets a long suspension or termination that might or might not be reduced to a suspension.

But if you are going to fire a driver for not wearing their seat belt, then why should the above situation be treated any different just because the person making the decision is a manager?

d
 

Signature Only

Blue in Brown
If God can cover all of human existence throughout time with 10, how many does friend/T Management require.
Three very important rules to remember and apply but hardly the ONLY ones.
Maybe as a part-time supe ... friend/T Management is not a task-based job that can be summed up in three rules.
I do understand that these would be ones that are immediately apparent and important to non-management workers.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
My job as a driver is to manage the day-to-day business of my route by delivering and picking up my customers packages in the safest and most efficient manner possible.

If I managed my route as effectively as my superiors manage the day-to-day operation of the center, I would have been fired a long time ago.

On an ongoing basis I see operational decisions being made that cost the company many tens of thousands of dollars in lost productivity, wasted time, duplication of effort and service failures. These issues will in all likelihood never be corrected. But should I ever fail to live up to the standards that are expected of me as a driver, even by the smallest amount, there will be no end to the documentation, the discipline, the threats to my job and the condescending lectures about the importance of "being competitive" and providing "service" to the customer.

I make good money and I have no problem with being held accountable to very high standards of performance. But I do have a problem being held to that standard by people who couldn't even come close to living up to it themselves.
 

ups1990

Well-Known Member
First, let me say this is a very intriguing topic. Many fine post have been written by members who in my opinion are very knowledgable in UPS matters.

I had to sit down and meditate on this word of accountability. What is it? and who does accountability belong to?

We can begin at home, we our accountable to our spouses and children. They are entrusting in us to provide for them and looking at us to be good husbands and fathers. When we falter and many of us do because no one person is always good hearted 100% of the time, then we see the look in their eyes and know we are being held accountable.

UPS, does have the right to hold every one of their workers accountable union and non-union alike. This company has been around for over 100 years, there are only a handful of companies who can say the same. Without accountability from workers, UPS wouldn't have survived.

I'm very fortunate to work in a group of hard working individuals who display a high degree of integrity and a deep concern for this company. I feel that, I'am accountable to them. These guys bring it every day, no matter what's going in their lives they come to work with energy and charisma to go along. If they are capable of working at a high degree of efficiency then so should I.

As much it pains me to make mistakes, it's equally painful to tell on myself when I screw up. Accountability hurts when you're on the accountable side. Myself and many of you have invested our youth at UPS and subsequently missed many functions, school assemblies and graduations. The companies welfare is definitely in our best interest. With this said, workers who have a problem working at a high level and keep making the same costly mistakes, should be held accountable, because it affects the aforementioned, welfare of UPS. Over the last few years our center has gingerly gone after them to the point of termination. Even the union went as far as going along with the terminations.

This is union workers point of view of accountability, as far as management goes, I'm not privy as to what goes behind closed doors but they too have to look at themselves in the mirror every morning.
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member
Not to throw any rocks, but at UPS as well as thousands of other companies out there..

Management personel do not report to the employees....

You are 100% correct Dragon but you can't criticize me when your performance is poor and expect me to respect you. I'm put behind the 8-ball day after day becuase of mistakes that I didn't make, yet I am expected to have zero later air and zero missed and a SPORH that you mandate.

What can I do if you don't do your job as managers? Misloads everyday, packages not sequenced, airs loaded in the wrong area, leave the building at 920 for at 835 start 2-3 days/week, late grounds loads for the preload, ADD/CUTS that don't get added or cut, 3 drivers on the same neighborhood because of dispatch. Should I go I on? If I performed as poorly as this on a daily basis I would be in the office everyday. Enough said..
 

PASinterference

Yes, I know I'm working late.
You are 100% correct Dragon but you can't criticize me when your performance is poor and expect me to respect you. I'm put behind the 8-ball day after day becuase of mistakes that I didn't make, yet I am expected to have zero later air and zero missed and a SPORH that you mandate.

What can I do if you don't do your job as managers? Misloads everyday, packages not sequenced, airs loaded in the wrong area, leave the building at 920 for at 835 start 2-3 days/week, late grounds loads for the preload, ADD/CUTS that don't get added or cut, 3 drivers on the same neighborhood because of dispatch. Should I go I on? If I performed as poorly as this on a daily basis I would be in the office everyday. Enough said..
 

PASinterference

Yes, I know I'm working late.
I think that sums it up.In my opinion,mgmt is accountable for meeting numbers and thats it.Hourly must meet the numbers AND do it honestly.In the real world on the other end of the delivery there is a customer that I have to keep happy and they dont care about any useless corporate metric goal set by some bean counter. Yes, they can raise PPH on the preload and it looks good on paper,but misloads go up and load quality goes down.I think that middle mgmt should speak up when these goals are clearly unattainable and focus on things that would actually save money instead of cost double to meet some useless metric.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
The only accountability that I have any control over is personal accountability. It is our job to take what is loaded on our cars and deliver it in the most efficient manner possible using the prescribed methods while keeping customer service in mind.
 

CharleyHustle

Well-Known Member
I'm very fortunate to work in a group of hard working individuals who display a high degree of integrity and a deep concern for this company. I feel that, I'am accountable to them. These guys bring it every day, no matter what's going in their lives they come to work with energy and charisma to go along. If they are capable of working at a high degree of efficiency then so should I.

Fortunate indeed. browniehound has it about right. If an employee is under pressure to perform when they aren't given the proper tools and enviorment to succeed, who is accountable when that employee fails?
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
I see many of the managers are pulling their punches or not posting at all on this one.

Example, if a manager orders an employee to do something that has a high percentage of chance that the employee will be seriously hurt or killed, should they be held accountable if said employee ends up hurt or dead?

We already know what happens when a driver makes that type of decision with his package car, he either gets a long suspension or termination that might or might not be reduced to a suspension.

But if you are going to fire a driver for not wearing their seat belt, then why should the above situation be treated any different just because the person making the decision is a manager?

d

First, I think that there is a difference between accountability and discipline, and there are different discipline rules for management and hourly. Hourly employees have prescribed progressive discipline rules and management do not. There is also a difference between behavior and outcome.

In the situation you bring up, the behavior of directing the employee is the problem. This behavior is wrong whether or not the employee got hurt. That behavior needs to be corrected. Is the proper correction termination or a discussion? I guess it depends on the situation.

I have never seen a driver fired for a first infraction of not wearing a seat belt. (Actually, I have never seen a driver fired for for not wearing a seat belt period. Maybe it has happened).

Accountability means that you are responsible for your actions. Whether you receive discipline for it or not is another story. Many people hold themselves accountable. Many correct their own behavior. The purpose of discipline is to correct behavior.

I think one would be hard pressed to think management is NOT accountable. Management is held accountable for their actions as well as the actions of their employees. If you want to argue that the discipline that goes along with the accountability is imbalanced, then that's another discussion.

In order to hold someone accountable, you have to give them the authority to make decisions. If I tell you how to do something and you do what I say, its not your fault if I don't like the outcome.

So, a discussion on accountabilty brings with it a discussion on authority, responsibility, outcome, behavior, and types of discipline.

Personally, I think too many UPS managers mix up these issues. They manage by outcome, not behavior. Good behavior and a bad outcome requires an analysis of the process. Bad behavior and a good outcome is not sustainable (and its dangerous).

Rather than focus on the outcome, the discussion needs to be on the behavior (or decision) that led to that bad outcome. That is all someone can change.
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
p man-
I want to extend a compliment to you.
You are a class act!
NOT ONCE have I ever heard you resort to name calling, implication or undercurrent in your response to anothers post!
Your posts have an educated and fluid tone that make them a pleasure to read.
 
Last edited:

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
p man-
I want to extend a compliment to you.
You are a class act!
NOT ONCE have I ever heard you resort to name calling, implication or undercurrent in your response to anothers post!
Your posts have an educated and fluid tone that make them a pleasure to read.
That's an easy +1
 
Top