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<blockquote data-quote="pretzel_man" data-source="post: 805314" data-attributes="member: 927"><p>First, I think that there is a difference between accountability and discipline, and there are different discipline rules for management and hourly. Hourly employees have prescribed progressive discipline rules and management do not. There is also a difference between behavior and outcome. </p><p> </p><p>In the situation you bring up, the behavior of directing the employee is the problem. This behavior is wrong whether or not the employee got hurt. That behavior needs to be corrected. Is the proper correction termination or a discussion? I guess it depends on the situation.</p><p> </p><p>I have never seen a driver fired for a first infraction of not wearing a seat belt. (Actually, I have never seen a driver fired for for not wearing a seat belt period. Maybe it has happened).</p><p> </p><p>Accountability means that you are responsible for your actions. Whether you receive discipline for it or not is another story. Many people hold themselves accountable. Many correct their own behavior. The purpose of discipline is to correct behavior.</p><p> </p><p>I think one would be hard pressed to think management is NOT accountable. Management is held accountable for their actions as well as the actions of their employees. If you want to argue that the discipline that goes along with the accountability is imbalanced, then that's another discussion. </p><p> </p><p>In order to hold someone accountable, you have to give them the authority to make decisions. If I tell you how to do something and you do what I say, its not your fault if I don't like the outcome. </p><p> </p><p>So, a discussion on accountabilty brings with it a discussion on authority, responsibility, outcome, behavior, and types of discipline. </p><p> </p><p>Personally, I think too many UPS managers mix up these issues. They manage by outcome, not behavior. Good behavior and a bad outcome requires an analysis of the process. Bad behavior and a good outcome is not sustainable (and its dangerous). </p><p> </p><p>Rather than focus on the outcome, the discussion needs to be on the behavior (or decision) that led to that bad outcome. That is all someone can change.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pretzel_man, post: 805314, member: 927"] First, I think that there is a difference between accountability and discipline, and there are different discipline rules for management and hourly. Hourly employees have prescribed progressive discipline rules and management do not. There is also a difference between behavior and outcome. In the situation you bring up, the behavior of directing the employee is the problem. This behavior is wrong whether or not the employee got hurt. That behavior needs to be corrected. Is the proper correction termination or a discussion? I guess it depends on the situation. I have never seen a driver fired for a first infraction of not wearing a seat belt. (Actually, I have never seen a driver fired for for not wearing a seat belt period. Maybe it has happened). Accountability means that you are responsible for your actions. Whether you receive discipline for it or not is another story. Many people hold themselves accountable. Many correct their own behavior. The purpose of discipline is to correct behavior. I think one would be hard pressed to think management is NOT accountable. Management is held accountable for their actions as well as the actions of their employees. If you want to argue that the discipline that goes along with the accountability is imbalanced, then that's another discussion. In order to hold someone accountable, you have to give them the authority to make decisions. If I tell you how to do something and you do what I say, its not your fault if I don't like the outcome. So, a discussion on accountabilty brings with it a discussion on authority, responsibility, outcome, behavior, and types of discipline. Personally, I think too many UPS managers mix up these issues. They manage by outcome, not behavior. Good behavior and a bad outcome requires an analysis of the process. Bad behavior and a good outcome is not sustainable (and its dangerous). Rather than focus on the outcome, the discussion needs to be on the behavior (or decision) that led to that bad outcome. That is all someone can change. [/QUOTE]
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