Indecisi0n
Well-Known Member
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
DR bag in back of truck.
DR bag in back of truck.
Aggressively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing either
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Buck Fifty
Well-Known Member
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
Love your criminal mind. Good Call
Love your criminal mind. Good Call
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
No. This simply puts a BandAid over the underlying problem. Do not "code" any time out unless specifically instructed to do so by management. The time spent sorting is on road time, it is a necessary function of the delivery job, and if they dont like the fact that you have to sort through the mess/ look for misloads etc then they can take whatever steps are needed to solve that problem.
You need to file a grievance on the issue of being instructed to operate the vehicle off of the clock. Lunch starts when the vehicle is parked and secured at a suitable location i.e. one with a public restroom as close as is reasonably possible to your delivery trace. It does NOT start at the moment you hit stop complete. Your center manager just got himself a new Telematics toy and he wants to play with it. He is just trying to screw you and your fellow drivers out of a few minutes of pay. Do the math, if he can screw 20 drivers out of 3 minutes each, that is an hour of OT per day that no longer shows up on his report. That runs out to 5 hrs per week, or 20-25 hours per month. The net result is the same as laying a driver off for 3 or 4 days per month, which is money in his pocket. Dont play his game. This crap happens at every location when Telematics is first implemented, the sooner you nip it in the bud and get your management team straightened out the better off everybody will be.
No. This simply puts a BandAid over the underlying problem. Do not "code" any time out unless specifically instructed to do so by management. The time spent sorting is on road time, it is a necessary function of the delivery job, and if they dont like the fact that you have to sort through the mess/ look for misloads etc then they can take whatever steps are needed to solve that problem.
You need to file a grievance on the issue of being instructed to operate the vehicle off of the clock. Lunch starts when the vehicle is parked and secured at a suitable location i.e. one with a public restroom as close as is reasonably possible to your delivery trace. It does NOT start at the moment you hit stop complete. Your center manager just got himself a new Telematics toy and he wants to play with it. He is just trying to screw you and your fellow drivers out of a few minutes of pay. Do the math, if he can screw 20 drivers out of 3 minutes each, that is an hour of OT per day that no longer shows up on his report. That runs out to 5 hrs per week, or 20-25 hours per month. The net result is the same as laying a driver off for 3 or 4 days per month, which is money in his pocket. Dont play his game. This crap happens at every location when Telematics is first implemented, the sooner you nip it in the bud and get your management team straightened out the better off everybody will be.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
If management wants time coded out, they can either do it themselves via timecard edit or specifically instruct you how to do it.
Your only concern should be that your start time, finish time and lunch time are accurately entered. How it all looks on a report is someone elses problem, and the moment you start worrying about that report they own your ass.
If management wants time coded out, they can either do it themselves via timecard edit or specifically instruct you how to do it.
Your only concern should be that your start time, finish time and lunch time are accurately entered. How it all looks on a report is someone elses problem, and the moment you start worrying about that report they own your ass.
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soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
Its just a numbers game.
If "just" 20 simpleminded drivers in a center can be bullied by Telematics into working off of the clock for "just" 3 minutes per day, that equals one hour of OT per day, which equals 5 hours of OT per week, which equals 20-25 hours of OT per month, which equals 240-300 hours of OT per year, net savings $13,500 per year in wages alone not including SS, pension and medical benefit contributions.
That $13.5K per year pays for the Telematics hardware real quick, after that its pure profit.
You need to quit thinking like a rational caring human being, and start thinking like the tight-assed IE chiseler whose job it is to sit in a cubicle all day running spreadsheets on a computer and inventing ever more creative methods for screwing us hardworking drivers out of a buck.
Its just a numbers game.
If "just" 20 simpleminded drivers in a center can be bullied by Telematics into working off of the clock for "just" 3 minutes per day, that equals one hour of OT per day, which equals 5 hours of OT per week, which equals 20-25 hours of OT per month, which equals 240-300 hours of OT per year, net savings $13,500 per year in wages alone not including SS, pension and medical benefit contributions.
That $13.5K per year pays for the Telematics hardware real quick, after that its pure profit.
You need to quit thinking like a rational caring human being, and start thinking like the tight-assed IE chiseler whose job it is to sit in a cubicle all day running spreadsheets on a computer and inventing ever more creative methods for screwing us hardworking drivers out of a buck.
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
If they've already talked to you about it, it's no longer a first offense.
QKRSTKR
Well-Known Member
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
So you don't work over 9.5, and have the best preloader in the company as well? Dam.! Some people just aren't as lucky as you.
Our methods are you need to at least touch every package in the car before 3pm looking for misloads. If you find a business misload at 5 your screwed. It's all your fault and you should have found it earlier.
I eat lunch same place everyday as well. I almost always have 2 stops super close to where I eat lunch. I do say 124 main st. , eat lunch, then deliver 130 main st. Not to complicated. I'm still right there. I never sort the car right after lunch because of what the others stated. Of course it looks like your taking extra lunch time.
So you don't work over 9.5, and have the best preloader in the company as well? Dam.! Some people just aren't as lucky as you.
Our methods are you need to at least touch every package in the car before 3pm looking for misloads. If you find a business misload at 5 your screwed. It's all your fault and you should have found it earlier.
I eat lunch same place everyday as well. I almost always have 2 stops super close to where I eat lunch. I do say 124 main st. , eat lunch, then deliver 130 main st. Not to complicated. I'm still right there. I never sort the car right after lunch because of what the others stated. Of course it looks like your taking extra lunch time.
djkre8r
Well-Known Member
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
I was told by my steward that after lunch I need to punch back in, stop complete next stop in EDD, than sort my truck. The gap will show after you "returned" to work. The gap after lunch just looks as if you took some extra lunch time.
I was told by my steward that after lunch I need to punch back in, stop complete next stop in EDD, than sort my truck. The gap will show after you "returned" to work. The gap after lunch just looks as if you took some extra lunch time.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
I always sort my car after lunch.
If they are spying on me, they will see me come out of the restraunt where I ate and go into the back of the car and start sorting when my recorded lunch is over.
If all they are doing is just sitting in an office looking at a Telematics report....I dont give a sh%t whether it "looks" like I am taking extra lunch or not. They are more than free to ask me what I was doing during that time, and I will politely and truthfully respond. Whether they like the answer or not is not my problem.
95% of the time I take my lunch at a restraunt right next to a major highway. Been doing it for 17 years. The package car is parked in plain sight, and there is a huge shopping center parking lot next door where management usually hides when they do come out to spy on me. I'm not hiding a damn thing.
I always sort my car after lunch.
If they are spying on me, they will see me come out of the restraunt where I ate and go into the back of the car and start sorting when my recorded lunch is over.
If all they are doing is just sitting in an office looking at a Telematics report....I dont give a sh%t whether it "looks" like I am taking extra lunch or not. They are more than free to ask me what I was doing during that time, and I will politely and truthfully respond. Whether they like the answer or not is not my problem.
95% of the time I take my lunch at a restraunt right next to a major highway. Been doing it for 17 years. The package car is parked in plain sight, and there is a huge shopping center parking lot next door where management usually hides when they do come out to spy on me. I'm not hiding a damn thing.
Covemastah
Hoopah drives the boat Chief !!
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
I spent so much time after lunch sorting, I must have stolen years from this company not minutes,,they will move on to somerthing else next week,don't let it bother you !!
I spent so much time after lunch sorting, I must have stolen years from this company not minutes,,they will move on to somerthing else next week,don't let it bother you !!
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
Your steward is weak.
It doesnt matter what the gap "looks" like.
If you take the time to sort, it is creating a "gap" of time. Whether the "gap" happens between the end of your lunch and your next stop, or between two subsequent stops, is irrelevant. It is still there and they can still see it and if they ask you about it you just tell them the truth, which is that you were sorting. If they instruct you not to sort, then simply deliver the packages in whatever order you happen to find them and allow the route to fail. They will very quickly instruct you to start sorting once again.
Your steward is weak.
It doesnt matter what the gap "looks" like.
If you take the time to sort, it is creating a "gap" of time. Whether the "gap" happens between the end of your lunch and your next stop, or between two subsequent stops, is irrelevant. It is still there and they can still see it and if they ask you about it you just tell them the truth, which is that you were sorting. If they instruct you not to sort, then simply deliver the packages in whatever order you happen to find them and allow the route to fail. They will very quickly instruct you to start sorting once again.
brownman15
Well-Known Member
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
it is illegal to operate the vehicle while on break. dot hours of service says all drive time has to be reported and our diad is our logbook let ups know this and that u will call dot and report them. you can call dot while in the office with management and see was dot has to say about it.
You know. This bothered me a bit. We've had telematics in our center for about 4 months now. I've been running my route clean, 99% by the book and run .30-.40 over, stress free with no problems. I have a routine, a tight schedule, I'm on time everywhere I go. Run my route, at 13:45 every day I stop at the same place and eat lunch, sort my truck at the same place every day, all is well.
I walk in Monday, punch in and go to the PCM, I'm refreshed from the weekend, I'm truely in a good mood and ready to work, ready to do a good job for them and make my customers happy, yada yada. After PCM I'm called into the office with a steward.
I was accused of stealing time, this and that and it wont be tolerated. I will be terminated for stealing the next time this happens.
Apparently, they've been studying telematics data but just this week started "using" it.
On road: "Your last stop was 13:43, than we showed you traveled .2 miles and stopped for lunch but punched out at 13:45"
Me: "And ?"
On road: "You stole that 2 minutes, you are to punch out as soon as you stop complete your last stop, and you dont punch back in till youre at your next stop scanning packages"
A more condescending tone than usual. He tells me not to act like I never knew this, than talked to me like I'm a 5 year old.
On road: "Than you punched back in from lunch at 14:45 and you didnt complete your next delivery till 14:58, thats 13 minutes!"
me: "I come out of lunch and go through the car and resort it checking for misloads and biz in my resis, like I'm told to do before 15:00 every day, this is also how we do the route when you ride with me"
On Road: "Thats not how we do it around here, sort as you go, no need to stop and go through the car, you're taking extra lunch time, dont you understand we can see where you are and what you're doing now ? You're stealing time and now we see it"
So today I finish my last stop at 13:44, punch out to lunch at 13:45, finish lunch at 14:45, and punch back in at my next stop at 14:49. By the way, this is driving and a traffic light I would've had to drive through whether I stopped there for lunch or not. Anyways, I work my way delivering across town, get to the furthest point from where lunch was at and at 16:21 I found a misloaded saver in the 7000 section. However I'm now doing all my heavy pickups across town, I get through the pickups and get back across town and deliver it at 16:50, at least it made service. Funny thing is, it was right next door to where I eat lunch and I could've walked the damn thing over while sorting out the car like I've done every day for years without a single problem.
So I get in tonight and I'm accused of again stealing time and miles by driving across town to deliver saver, than talked to like I'm a 5 year old, and he wants to know why I didnt stop before 15:00 to go through the car like I was instructed to doThan I missed an OCA commit time (still picked up) going back out to where I was to continue (late) scheduled pickups. Was told I'm receiving a warning letter for the stolen time and late saver. They're being this unreasonable with many others, it's not just me.
Soooo... I went from .40-.50 over doing it the way I've been doing it for almost a decade, to .80-.90 over by not going back through the truck and sorting as I go all day long.
I will continue to smile and let them pad my paycheck with their absolute incompetance.
it is illegal to operate the vehicle while on break. dot hours of service says all drive time has to be reported and our diad is our logbook let ups know this and that u will call dot and report them. you can call dot while in the office with management and see was dot has to say about it.
brownman15
Well-Known Member
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/driver/hos/fmcsa-guide-to-hos.pdf
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/driver/hos/fmcsa-guide-to-hos.pdf
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
I do the same thing every day. It's sometimes 2 miles between my morning work in the city and my PM country work. I stop for lunch in between. When I park the truck, lunch starts. Only difference being I run scratch. Another double standard.
I do the same thing every day. It's sometimes 2 miles between my morning work in the city and my PM country work. I stop for lunch in between. When I park the truck, lunch starts. Only difference being I run scratch. Another double standard.
728ups
All Trash No Trailer
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
Our Steward and BA have instructed us to do the same thing,and I dont view it as 'weak',rather than to keep any charges of 'Excessive Lunch' being directed at employees. In our local Excessive Lunch is the Flavour of the Week,and IMO why get on the radar for it? Management has taken a very aggresive stand,and I pick and choose my battles and IMO this isnt worth the fight ,effort or trouble as very little if anything is said for sorting time, as long as it dosent seem to give the perception of extending the lunch. Yeah it's nickle and dime BS, but that seems to be SOP these days
Our Steward and BA have instructed us to do the same thing,and I dont view it as 'weak',rather than to keep any charges of 'Excessive Lunch' being directed at employees. In our local Excessive Lunch is the Flavour of the Week,and IMO why get on the radar for it? Management has taken a very aggresive stand,and I pick and choose my battles and IMO this isnt worth the fight ,effort or trouble as very little if anything is said for sorting time, as long as it dosent seem to give the perception of extending the lunch. Yeah it's nickle and dime BS, but that seems to be SOP these days
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
A good driver will come in early and have it all sorted off the clock.
A good driver will come in early and have it all sorted off the clock.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
The best way to deal with "Flavor of the Week" crap is to cram that Flavor so far down the company's throat that you make them puke on it.
The best way to "stay off the radar" is not to try and hide from it; it is to stand up for yourself and reflect that radar beam back at them so powerfully that you fry it.
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from a BA is...."if they turn up the heat, you turn it up even HOTTER." That is assuming, of course, that you are in the right. Which in this case, you would be by standing up for yourself against Telematics harassment.
If your main concern when coming to work is to simply to "stay off the radar"....then dont be surprised when the company keeps incrementally "adjusting" that radar to the point where you are forced to skip your lunch and break entirely. Once you can justify donating a couple of minutes of your labor to the company for free, you are on a slippery slope that doesnt end until you have no rights at all.
Full Disclosure; I work in Oregon, which is a pro-union state so its probably a lot easier for members here to stand up for themselves than it is for you in a "right-to-work-for-less" state like Georgia.
The best way to deal with "Flavor of the Week" crap is to cram that Flavor so far down the company's throat that you make them puke on it.
The best way to "stay off the radar" is not to try and hide from it; it is to stand up for yourself and reflect that radar beam back at them so powerfully that you fry it.
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got from a BA is...."if they turn up the heat, you turn it up even HOTTER." That is assuming, of course, that you are in the right. Which in this case, you would be by standing up for yourself against Telematics harassment.
If your main concern when coming to work is to simply to "stay off the radar"....then dont be surprised when the company keeps incrementally "adjusting" that radar to the point where you are forced to skip your lunch and break entirely. Once you can justify donating a couple of minutes of your labor to the company for free, you are on a slippery slope that doesnt end until you have no rights at all.
Full Disclosure; I work in Oregon, which is a pro-union state so its probably a lot easier for members here to stand up for themselves than it is for you in a "right-to-work-for-less" state like Georgia.
Scottyhawk
What is it? A brown box. Duh
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
I had an on-car come up to me one time and not in a mean way asked me if I had taken a nap between 1130 and 1210, and I said sure boss, why are you asking. He said well you stop completed at 1130 and your next delivery was at 1210. I said well that is strange because I arrived at the post office at 1129 and scanned my first of 205 pieces of smile** oh sorry sure post at 1130 and did not finish until 1210,he goes ok, but what about at 215 to 315 and I go really, how about lunch and meet another driver to give him the fifty stops you threw on my truck to give to him and spoke with you about because he was 15 minutes late to the meet. Oh ok carry on.
So I would not count on telematics as a sure thing. So as long as you do your job and CYA yourself you should have no worries, it will blow over when the next big thing comes to your center. BTW you are allowed within reason to find a place for lunch as long as it is within reasonable distance of your last stop before lunch and your next stop after lunch and you have secured the truck and diad before punching out.
I had an on-car come up to me one time and not in a mean way asked me if I had taken a nap between 1130 and 1210, and I said sure boss, why are you asking. He said well you stop completed at 1130 and your next delivery was at 1210. I said well that is strange because I arrived at the post office at 1129 and scanned my first of 205 pieces of smile** oh sorry sure post at 1130 and did not finish until 1210,he goes ok, but what about at 215 to 315 and I go really, how about lunch and meet another driver to give him the fifty stops you threw on my truck to give to him and spoke with you about because he was 15 minutes late to the meet. Oh ok carry on.
So I would not count on telematics as a sure thing. So as long as you do your job and CYA yourself you should have no worries, it will blow over when the next big thing comes to your center. BTW you are allowed within reason to find a place for lunch as long as it is within reasonable distance of your last stop before lunch and your next stop after lunch and you have secured the truck and diad before punching out.
Re: Aggresively accused of stealing time, UPS hasnt figured out the morale thing eith
I wouldn't say that my "main concern" is to stay off the radar, but I come in, do my work, and go home. I prefer to stay off my management teams off of my butt. In no way do I ever feel the need to skip my lunch due to "pressure". The only thing I MAY do on occasion is skip my 10 minute break, especially in the heat of the summer. I would skip my lunch if I could work under 8 and still get my 8 hr guarantee, but that never seems to happen anymore.
I wouldn't say that my "main concern" is to stay off the radar, but I come in, do my work, and go home. I prefer to stay off my management teams off of my butt. In no way do I ever feel the need to skip my lunch due to "pressure". The only thing I MAY do on occasion is skip my 10 minute break, especially in the heat of the summer. I would skip my lunch if I could work under 8 and still get my 8 hr guarantee, but that never seems to happen anymore.
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