All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E C

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Wow, your management is planning on late air Monday morning? We actually get to start Monday at our regular start time of 8:45, since the air has all weekend to get here. 9:00 the rest of the week. I heard Peak Day will be Thursday, which is different from years past. Of course they will probably cut routes out on Friday so we will be forced to stay out delivering late on Christmas Eve. Gotta save a few bucks you know.
No, not Monday. Should have clarified that.
Does your center manager realize that commit times are relaxed starting today?
LOL Not real sure what my center manager is thinking. He is so far removed from our center as to be in outer space. My 'on-car' runs our center and has no control over what is DICTATED to him for start times. He is willing to take the heat for sending us out before start time and shuttling air to us later.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

We got the PCM from our center manager the next day. He said that he did not have the stripes or seniority to question the call. He said he had no doubt we could have finished safely and got our building clean to start the next day. We had 2 hours+ of delivery time remaining with no safety concerns. Over 500 pieces and 300 + stops were brought back and sheeted with dishonesty as EC. There has been a push in our area to reduce the payed day. This accomplished that as the next day many stops had more than 1 package and area density was tighter.


The 500 packages sheeted with no regard to integrity or customer service would have been enough falsification of records to get 500 drivers fired if each one did this on their own. There were no answers given other than reduce the payed day. The drivers in our center were very confused and angered at this blatant double standard for integrity. I used to think that drivers who were fired for sheeting off area or flagging stops deserved to get disciplinary action but now I am disgusted and can not take UPS preaching of integrity as nothing other than a punch line.

I will write Atlanta and see if I can find out why there are 2 sets of integrity ideals.
browned out,

I admire your desire to stand up for what you believe to be right.

If what you say is true, and can be proven, this is a good case of a management person or team clearly violating UPS Policy.

The real question is what level of management is driving this decision to be dishonest?

The UPS policy book, page 16 addresses this type of falsification of reporting.

I also recommend reviewing the UPS Code Of Business Conduct before writing your letter.

Found online at:
www.ups.com/content/corp/code_conduct.html#Statement+of+Policy

Sincerely,
I
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

We got the PCM from our center manager the next day. He said that he did not have the stripes or seniority to question the call. He said he had no doubt we could have finished safely and got our building clean to start the next day. We had 2 hours+ of delivery time remaining with no safety concerns. Over 500 pieces and 300 + stops were brought back and sheeted with dishonesty as EC. There has been a push in our area to reduce the payed day. This accomplished that as the next day many stops had more than 1 package and area density was tighter.


The 500 packages sheeted with no regard to integrity or customer service would have been enough falsification of records to get 500 drivers fired if each one did this on their own. There were no answers given other than reduce the payed day. The drivers in our center were very confused and angered at this blatant double standard for integrity.
I used to think that drivers who were fired for sheeting off area or flagging stops deserved to get disciplinary action but now I am disgusted and can not take UPS preaching of integrity as nothing other than a punch line.

I will write Atlanta and see if I can find out why there are 2 sets of integrity ideals.

This strikes me as silly to say it is a question of integrity.

Rules are put in place by the chain of command for the drivers to follow. If the people who put those rules in place make the decision to use EC in this instance and direct you to do so, then do it.
The government has laws that you cannot carry a gun (in many states) but then carry guns themselves ... there are always two sets of rules if you look at things superficially but if one thinks about then there is usually a logical and good reason for it.

I'm sure, if you have kids, there are many rules for them to follow but you do those things they aren't suppose to do. For instance, your kids may not be allowed to adjust the thermostat on the HVAC but you do it all the time. You pay the bills, you understand the consequences. Whoever made this decision that you refer to either had the authority to do so or they got permission from someone who did.
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

This strikes me as silly to say it is a question of integrity.

Rules are put in place by the chain of command for the drivers to follow. If the people who put those rules in place make the decision to use EC in this instance and direct you to do so, then do it.
The government has laws that you cannot carry a gun (in many states) but then carry guns themselves ... there are always two sets of rules if you look at things superficially but if one thinks about then there is usually a logical and good reason for it.

I'm sure, if you have kids, there are many rules for them to follow but you do those things they aren't suppose to do. For instance, your kids may not be allowed to adjust the thermostat on the HVAC but you do it all the time. You pay the bills, you understand the consequences. Whoever made this decision that you refer to either had the authority to do so or they got permission from someone who did.

Then why not record them as "management decision to deliver them tomorrow or whenever we get around to it" instead of Emergency Conditions?

If someone tracks their package they get misled into believing the driver decided because of the weather not to make the delivery.
 

UPSBluRdg03

Well-Known Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Started snowing here thursday morning about 6. Left the building about 930 after putting chains on and helping some others get theirs on too. Stopped snowing about 2 and ended up with about 5 inches. Got the same message at 430 "All Drivers in and off by 645 with all remaining stops sheeted EC." I run a rural route 25 miles from the hub. While slow going i wasnt having any problems getting stops off. I wouldnt have finished but could have gotten off alot more had we been able to stay out longer. Ended up bringing 45 stops back. Yesterday the preload couldnt even get everything on the trucks and we were told to leave the building leaving prob 1 or 2 thousand pieces behind. Had to be off the clock at 11 hours last night. Everything left in the building was missed along with anything not attempted. Brought 4 stops back as EC. Cant wait to see what theyre gonna do Monday.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I have to agree with Re-Raise on this one. It is far to easy for mgt to make decisions and then, when called on it, turn it on the driver as being our fault. I use EC judiciously, when it is NECESSARY. I stand behind my decision to use it. Mgt does not do the same thing.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

As I've said before, I hope this is a case of not communicating. It sounds like the management team is being dishonest to our customers when they have packages sheeted as EC when there are no emergency conditions (that we know of).

I have not heard of this happening here. In Package, the management team always wanted the packages to be sheeted honestly. When I've had misloads, I've often got messaged to sheet my misloads as missed by 1700.

I hope you guys will approach your management teams and ask why they appear to be cheating, or at least misleading, our customers.

I honestly hope what we're hearing is not true.

Scary times we're living in, if it is true...
 

Re-Raise

Well-Known Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

As I've said before, I hope this is a case of not communicating. It sounds like the management team is being dishonest to our customers when they have packages sheeted as EC when there are no emergency conditions (that we know of).

I have not heard of this happening here. In Package, the management team always wanted the packages to be sheeted honestly. When I've had misloads, I've often got messaged to sheet my misloads as missed by 1700.

I hope you guys will approach your management teams and ask why they appear to be cheating, or at least misleading, our customers.

I honestly hope what we're hearing is not true.

Scary times we're living in, if it is true...

I always wondered when we have misloads for another truck and record them as missed it sort of looks like I missed a delivery.

Why isn't there a way to record it in my DIAD as a walked in wrong car missed because it is off area? I don't want it to look like I missed delivering 50 pkgs last year because the pre loader kept putting the wrong packages on my car.

A little off topic .. but I am just sayin.
 

tieguy

Banned
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Can you please enlighten me your holiness? By own devices do you mean attention to customer service

I'm not sure why my post required you promote me to pope but I thought the point was pretty simple. there are times the company or region decides they need to dictate policy to ensure we dont have package drivers driving around in the dark while kids are trick or treating.

You're beginning to sound like UPSSOCKS. Are you feeling O.K.? Getting too much heat from downtown? You usually have well-reasoned, balanced posts.

Interesting the same post got me demoted from pope to socks.

Do not get sucked in by the myth that management EVER cares about your safety. They do not care about you or me or your co-worker or mine. They ONLY care about their backside.
Period.

management does care about your safety though they may not always care about you. Accidents and injuries are expensive.

+1 is that you upssocks?????????????

kiss ass

browned out,

I admire your desire to stand up for what you believe to be right.

If what you say is true, and can be proven, this is a good case of a management person or team clearly violating UPS Policy.

The real question is what level of management is driving this decision to be dishonest?

The UPS policy book, page 16 addresses this type of falsification of reporting.

I also recommend reviewing the UPS Code Of Business Conduct before writing your letter.

Found online at:
www.ups.com/content/corp/code_conduct.html#Statement+of+Policy

Sincerely,
I

Did someone request a self serving speech?
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I always wondered when we have misloads for another truck and record them as missed it sort of looks like I missed a delivery.

Why isn't there a way to record it in my DIAD as a walked in wrong car missed because it is off area? I don't want it to look like I missed delivering 50 pkgs last year because the pre loader kept putting the wrong packages on my car.

A little off topic .. but I am just sayin.

When you send in the misload through the misload communication screen, not only does that package come off of that driver's EDD but it also ends up on a report. This will cover you when you sheet it as missed.
 

cosmo1

Perhaps.
Staff member
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Management does care about your safety though they may not always care about you. Accidents and injuries are expensive.





Management confirmation that we are nothing more than cogs in the machine.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Then why not record them as "management decision to deliver them tomorrow or whenever we get around to it" instead of Emergency Conditions?

If someone tracks their package they get misled into believing the driver decided because of the weather not to make the delivery.

Code doesn't exist and the person tracking the package can think whom ever they want - bottom line is UPS indicated that EC was selected. You assume that the EC was put in place just for the driver - it can have multiple purposes and for multiple decision makers ... there are other decision makers at UPS than the drivers.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

I have to agree with Re-Raise on this one. It is far to easy for mgt to make decisions and then, when called on it, turn it on the driver as being our fault. I use EC judiciously, when it is NECESSARY. I stand behind my decision to use it. Mgt does not do the same thing.

It is always good judgment to have a record when management asks you to do something you don't feel comfortable with ... I do that even at my level.
However, one's management does have that right and authority.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Management confirmation that we are nothing more than cogs in the machine.

I think your implications with the "we" is misleading.
I think all management (who are people just like all of us) cares about some of their people and some people may care about all of the people that report to them.
I think it is more reasonable to assume that management people care more about some of their people than they do for other people who report to them ... that's just being human.
It's probably safe to assume that many management people don't care about a few of their people at all. Certainly was true with me when I was in operations.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

It is always good judgment to have a record when management asks you to do something you don't feel comfortable with ... I do that even at my level.
However, one's management does have that right and authority.
Having the authority doesn't make it right.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Agree with that but "right" is usually a subjective evaluation.
Yes, I agree. The problem is that when 'authority' is thrown in to the mix those without the 'authority' are the ones that don't have a say as to what is right or wrong.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

Yes, I agree. The problem is that when 'authority' is thrown in to the mix those without the 'authority' are the ones that don't have a say as to what is right or wrong.


True but that's the rules of the game. I quit worrying about that a long time ago and my life has been much better. I look for those moments of Zen.
I just make sure I cover myself, although I honestly have not had problems with that in the last 10 years or so.
 

Integrity

Binge Poster
Re: All Drivers return to bldg and off the clock by 6:45 Sheet remaining stops as E

It is always good judgment to have a record when management asks you to do something you don't feel comfortable with ... I do that even at my level.
However, one's management does have that right and authority.

Hoaxster,

Anyone who works for UPS, even for a short time, will know how hard it is to get low level management to reduce anything to writing.

If an honest person is uncomfortable with something local management is doing it probably would be a good idea to get needed guidance.

No one at UPS at any level has the right or authority to behave in an unethical way.

It is every employee's responsibility to report suspected or known ethical violations.

Sincerely,
I
 
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