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All US Presidents since Hoover have been Socialists
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 1223413" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>I would go longer than 80 years but your point is still valid. Americans have yet to grasp IMO that there is both right and left wing socialism but at the same time in the 19th century there were people who called themselves socialists who both called for a vast reduction if not an end to the state as well as advocate for the idea of a free market and yet at the same time were anti-capitalist in the sense that capitalism is today. Benjamin Tucker would be one example. </p><p></p><p>Socialist comes from the french Socialiste and in reference to the teachings of Comte de Saint-Simon. Comte de Saint-Simon believed in an aristocratic, technocratic ruling class to rule society and never some "all for one and one for all" egalitarian ideal. The socialism was about protecting their own moneyed, industrial and power interests under the guise of social well being. They felt the masses had and needed to be controlled. This form of socialism grew to influence the likes of Marx as well as the british Fabians to what became State socialism as opposed to the ideas of Mikhail Bakunin and Joseph Pierre Proudhon who advocated a non-state or anti-state form of socialism. Marx even had Bakunin expelled from the First International as Bakunin opposed the idea of using the state to bring socialism to the masses. From these roots (Bakunin/Proudhon) anarchism, mutualism, libertarianism (created a right wing strain with opposition to FDR's New Deal and the cold war) and the more recent voluntaryism all sprang forth. </p><p></p><p>Comte seem to anticipate both Marx (class theory) and the Fabians (rules by hierarchy and aristocracy) and you could say the rest is history. Seems now to some degree that Marx and the Fabians won the day. </p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.uiowa.edu/~boosf/questions/saintsimonfour.htm" target="_blank"><span style="color: #ff0000">Interesting read</span></a> on Comte and Charles Fourier.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 1223413, member: 2189"] I would go longer than 80 years but your point is still valid. Americans have yet to grasp IMO that there is both right and left wing socialism but at the same time in the 19th century there were people who called themselves socialists who both called for a vast reduction if not an end to the state as well as advocate for the idea of a free market and yet at the same time were anti-capitalist in the sense that capitalism is today. Benjamin Tucker would be one example. Socialist comes from the french Socialiste and in reference to the teachings of Comte de Saint-Simon. Comte de Saint-Simon believed in an aristocratic, technocratic ruling class to rule society and never some "all for one and one for all" egalitarian ideal. The socialism was about protecting their own moneyed, industrial and power interests under the guise of social well being. They felt the masses had and needed to be controlled. This form of socialism grew to influence the likes of Marx as well as the british Fabians to what became State socialism as opposed to the ideas of Mikhail Bakunin and Joseph Pierre Proudhon who advocated a non-state or anti-state form of socialism. Marx even had Bakunin expelled from the First International as Bakunin opposed the idea of using the state to bring socialism to the masses. From these roots (Bakunin/Proudhon) anarchism, mutualism, libertarianism (created a right wing strain with opposition to FDR's New Deal and the cold war) and the more recent voluntaryism all sprang forth. Comte seem to anticipate both Marx (class theory) and the Fabians (rules by hierarchy and aristocracy) and you could say the rest is history. Seems now to some degree that Marx and the Fabians won the day. [URL="http://www.uiowa.edu/~boosf/questions/saintsimonfour.htm"][COLOR=#ff0000]Interesting read[/COLOR][/URL] on Comte and Charles Fourier. [/QUOTE]
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