Any ideas?

Discussion in 'The Archives' started by dannyboy, Feb 28, 2003.

  1. dannyboy

    dannyboy Guest

    On Thursday I had the "pleasure" of representing a 12 year employee. It seems that he came in on Wednesday, saw his load, turned to the part time preload sup, said "i'm not taking this s*** out" and left the building. And Im not talking left packages in the building, Im talking walked off the job.

    Of course UPS has now fired him, using the unauthorised strike section of the contract. The way I understand it, after the first meeting on this matter, he now is no longer represented by the Teamsters. So my obligation to him as a shop steward is over, correct?

  2. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    <font color="0000ff">Unauthorized strike? That is ridiculous. He definitely deserves some form of punishment but that is extreme. I'd say a long suspension would be in order unless this wasn't the first time he walked out on them. As far as you representing him goes...good question. I mean NORMALLY you are bound by law to represent him whether he is a Teamster member or not but in this case it might be different with the unauthorized strike rule. If this guy is clean up to this point I see no reason to fire him just yet but he sure as hell needs to sit at home and not get paid for at least a week in my opinion. Also, in my opinion, saying that his walkout is an "unauthorized strike" is simply ludicrous.</font>
  3. deliver_man

    deliver_man Guest

    My understanding is that he is represented by the teamsters for as long as he is contesting his termination, or until he loses at panel. Has he had a local level hearing yet with the B.A.? My sense of it is, unless he has a history of this type of behavior, he will likely get his job back as long as he is properly contrite and can produce a plausible reason (like stress from a bad family situation or something like that) for his actions.
  4. upsdude

    upsdude Guest

    I had a very similar situation as a shop steward a few years ago. The Teamster BA called the employee and told him to be at the center the next morning for a meeting with the center manager and union. The employee said he wasnt sucking up to get his job back and would only return on his terms. The BA told him the union would only work to get his job back if he cooperated and displayed remorse. The employee had been terminated for Failing to follow instructions and failing to work as instructed. The employee arrived at the center with his attitude in full swing and remained terminated when the meeting ended. The union refused to take the matter to panel and discontinued representation. Oh, the guy hasnt been seen since!

    When will folks get it through their head that you just do the best you can, and call the center around 2:00 PM and let them know how many stops youre going to miss. Remember folks, they are only boxes.
  5. We have an employee that has done the same thing. But I have never heard of the strike clause. But he's only been given his usual warning, then suspension. But never past that. He more got the "failure to follow instructions". He has never been terminated, and about to retire now. But he keeps it clean long enough to have occurances drop off his record so to speak (though they never truly do). It would be interesting to see what happens to this guy. But I myself was a shop steward at one time (will NEVER do it again). I've never had someone who had did this get fired like that. But you do have to represent him if he accepts your advice and wants union representation. If he doesn't listen to you, then he's S O L.
  6. dannyboy

    dannyboy Guest

    Atlantic sup. Article 39, section 3 par.2

    It is agreed that in all cases of unauthorized strike, slow down, walkout or any unauthorized cessation of work in violation of this agreement, the Union shall not be liable for damages resulting from any unauthorized action of its members. While...(my wording the union will make every effort to get them back to work), it is understood that the employer shall have the sole and complete right of dicipline, including the soleand complete right to discharge any employee participating in any unauthorized strike, slowdown, walkout or any other cessation of work AND SUCH EMPLOYEE SHALL NOT BE ENTITLED TO HAVE ANY RECOURSE TO ANY OTHER PROVISIONS OF THIS AGGREEMENT.

    I added the bold print. Now correct me If I read that the wrong way. He was entitled to union representation in the meeting on Thursday when they fired him. Since they charged him with the unauthorized strike/walkout according to the contract, he is no longer covered or had the rights to any provisions under the contract, including to be represented.

    A bit more background, without giving away any particulars:

    He has been fired, as he most proudly claims, 8 times and has allways gotten his job back. One time was for urinating into the back of one of the package cars he was loading. He has also, as I was shown Thursday before the meeting, written out what they have determined was a physically threatening letter to management, and even signed it for them. And at the meeting he wanted management to appologise for them discriminating against him amd making him take work off other drivers.

    So far this month he has worked 8 days of which 6 he worked much less than 8 hours but got paid for 8, and the other 2 worked 9.5+. Funny thing is they have it on file, he can run 95 stops and be back in the building in 6.5-7 hours, but give him 100-105 on the same route and it takes him 9.5 or more to get them off.

    Also he pulled a stunt very simular to this 4 weeks ago, when he went to his package car at start time, looked at it, went to the del sup, and said that he was sick, he wouldnt be working today, turned around and went home. They let that one pass without any action. Like I said this time was different because he had punched in, and then just walked off the job.

    HE had 42 unsheduled days off last year, most of them mondays and fridays, giving him many long weekends, but yet he claims they are working him too hard and long.

    And since he has a real penchant for violence(was arrested on felony spousal abuse last year, and just finished the anger management classes),starting at lunch yesterday there were armed guards with dogs at each entrance to the property, and they took out a restaining order against him.

    So while part of me wants to help him try and keep his job, reality says its gone, thanks to his stupidity and attitude. When I talked to him today, he still stated that he did nothing wrong to be fired over, and thinks they need to appologize to him. I feel like the cop that tried to get the guy to put the gun down and away from his head, but he pulled the trigger anyway. Not much left, and nothing to work with.

    OR am I missing something?

  7. deliver_man

    deliver_man Guest

    Danny, sounds like we are better off without this clown, but I still think you should represent him and here is why:
    The company is accusing him of going on an "unauthorised strike". That doesn't mean that that's what he actually did. As long he claims that he wasn't launching his own strike, the union should represent him, distasteful as that duty may be. The union cannot allow the company to set a precedent where the company alone determines what constitutes an unauthorised strike. If that becoms the case, you will see a lot more people getting fired for that charge when the actual charge should be "failure to work as instructed", as a tactic to deprive those workers of union representation.
    Just my opinion. Shop Steward is a tough, often thankless job, and as long you have been around, I am sure you will make the right decision.

    (Message edited by deliver_man on February 28, 2003)
  8. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    <font color="0000ff">Well now that we have more background on the guy it's clear to me that he is worthless and deserves to be fired for good. He could be considered a "Dead Weight Teamster". People like him not only make the union look bad but the whole company as a whole. I totally agree that managment shouldn't be allowed to make their own determination of whether a walkout is an "unauthorized strike". Even in this guy's case. His background alone is enough to let him take the fall and burn on this one though. Keep him out of UPS and let someone else that is worth something have the job.</font>
  9. Thanks Danny for clearing that up. Actually, we don't have that provision that I know of in our Western Teamsters agreement. Though I don't study it that hard anymore since I am no longer a shop steward. I keep it clean, so I don't study the agreement.

    Yeah, I know guys JUST like him. It's sickening. Personally, I would say represent him. Though he's a bad apple, your job is to try and help him (though you and I both know you'd really like to tell him to F-O). I'd first advise him of what you plan to do (go for warning letter or whatever action is plasable at this point besides termination) and see if he agrees. If he doesn't, then just be in the room with him and let him bury himself. I'm SOOOOOO tired of guys like this. We had a guy JUST like you described doing the EXACT same thing. BUT, he totalled dissed our BA and the other union reps, and ended up getting fired and shot down at ALL panels. No longer working at UPS and now trying to sue UPS and Teamsters for wrongful termination. Funny thing, UPS tried to give him his job back, but he never showed up for work saying "I was too stressed thinking I'd be harassed" and went the gambit of no call no shows until final termination. He's the biggest guy you'd ever seen and harrassed everyone (I don't mean joshing, but full fledged abusive). I say go with your heart in long run, but don't get yourself labeled as a steward who plays favorites. Been there/done that and main reason I stopped been a shop steward. I got enough guilty guys off that sickened me. I was never meant to be a lawyer, and you pretty much are one, just not getting paid their fees. No offense to you Danny at all, I admire you can do it. I just got fed up. Did it for 3 years and that was too long for me.
  10. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    However distastefull I still think you have to represent the guy. The end result if you don't you could end up with a lawsuit for failing to represent. It sounds like you could give the guy good advice and he would not take it. If so and you present his defense the way he dictates then he will lose for sure.
  11. proups

    proups Guest

    Dannyboy: I would get your Business Agent involved before you do anything.

    From your posts, this guy sounds like somebody that no employee - either management or hourly - would want to keep. I agree with your interpretation of the contract language, and maybe management is thinking along the same lines - that this guy has just fired himself with no recourse.

    I have little tolerance for a guy who abuses their spouse, so on moral grounds, I would stay away from him.

    He urinated in his package car? Please!!! He is a sick puppy. He needs more than anger management classes.

    Good luck to you - and be careful.
  12. dannyboy

    dannyboy Guest

    THey fired him under the strike clause, but they called it what it was, a walkout. And under the contract that is what it was. Notice also that it includes a work slowdown. So i dont know if it really makes a difference what they call it, I think have him.

    But I will ask for consideration, have it reduced to a 2 week suspension and see what they come back with. But they really want him gone now, they have given him sooooo many chances!

  13. oakland

    oakland Guest

    <font color="000000"><font face="arial,helvetica"></font>Out here in Cali the contract language for work slowdowns and unauthorised strikes only pertain to stewerds. As far as the guy not being fired yet for all the other stuff, the company must not be documenting all the occurances in a timely manner or picking the correct charges. I as a union member I don't mind seeing people get what's coming to them if it's deserved, but I hate it when the company gets a boner and loads up charges against someone when they are unfounded. If this guy is a bad seed then he will get his due eventually, the company needs to put a good and correct case together. [​IMG]</font>
  14. feederdude

    feederdude Guest

    As stated in previous posts, inform the B/A of the situation in full. This takes you out of the game and any responsibility in a lawsuit.
    I'm glad the sentiment is so strong not to support this bag of poo.