U
UPS Freight worker
Guest
So, no-spin, you have just admitted that the purpose of the apwa is to bust the union at UPS! I have watched this web sight ever since UPS acquired ovnt, and it is always the same guys tooting the horn of the apwa. I will be sure to warn all my fellow employees at my service center about the false claims of your so-called union! I'd rather remain non-union than give my loyalty and money to a bunch of deceitful rogues like the apwa!
denverbrown
Member
It's scary to think that the people hoping to take over our pensions don't know what kind of pension plan we have. And appear to not know the difference between the two basic types of plans. We do indeed have a defined benefit pension. NOT a defined contribution. I'm not going to tell you what the difference is, although it's quite simple to explain and I have explained it many times on my website, Denverbrown.com. I want Nospin to do some homework and then tell us how he thinks we have a defined contribution plan.
HINT: Making a set contribution like UPS makes into Central States does not make the plan a defined contribution plan.
Yikes!!
HINT: Making a set contribution like UPS makes into Central States does not make the plan a defined contribution plan.
Yikes!!
brett636
Well-Known Member
I can see that being the case with local 391. Even though I am in Indiana and all the states surrounding us are part of Central states we are members of the local 710 pension fund which covers only Chicago and Indiana oddly enough.
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
I'll eat crow when its my turn, and I got this one wrong. I obviously shouldn't quit my day job. But seeing that I'm not an officer in the APWA but only one of several commentators on this webboard, I don't see how my misperception on this definition should drive fear into the hearts of men, women, and children across the land. Were you able to sleep last night, Denver?
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
Jon, All the guys Ive ever spoken with in local 391 say that their health and welfare and pension paperwork comes from Central States. When you review the publications on Local 391 website, they speak only of CS. If you know of any DOL/financial documentation saying that the Local handling its members money otherwise, that would very interesting to read.
I checked out the New Englands Website while I was there. They are pretty upfront with their members on how poorly the fund is. Take a look at the nice powerpoint they have which describes the funds performance, how it got to that condition, and what steps they've taken in response.
After reviewing that powerpoint, if Local 391 is in the NETTI Pension, they only jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.
J
JonFrum
Guest
So the New England Teamsters and Trucking Industry Pension Fund website says North Carolina Local 391 is a participant in the New England fund, but several posters are saying that certain members of Local 391 are in the Central States fund. OK. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this.
This is just speculation on my part, but is it possible that some bargaining units of Local 391 are in the New England fund and some are in the Central States Fund? Maybe some pipeline workers traveled up to Boston to work on the "Big Dig," or maybe some movie crew traveled to New England and fell under the New England plan. Who Knows? We'll just have to wait until someone from Local 391 with first hand knowledge posts further details. All I know is, that listing of North Carolina Local 391 on the New England fund's website sure looks official. . . .
Local Unions Representing NETTIPF
This is just speculation on my part, but is it possible that some bargaining units of Local 391 are in the New England fund and some are in the Central States Fund? Maybe some pipeline workers traveled up to Boston to work on the "Big Dig," or maybe some movie crew traveled to New England and fell under the New England plan. Who Knows? We'll just have to wait until someone from Local 391 with first hand knowledge posts further details. All I know is, that listing of North Carolina Local 391 on the New England fund's website sure looks official. . . .
Local Unions Representing NETTIPF
I state again, I know Danny and Van and I'm from the same location.
We are all in the Central States Fund.
We have never been in the New England Fund.
What do you call an organization that receives 1.3 billion dollars a year and returns only 40% of it to its members? This is the worst investment in history, but you have no problem with it!!! The Teamsters are doing exactly this. You must be the mental midget if you think this is a sound financial strategy.
I recently spoke to a UPS freight driver. He said that the management is abusing the workers at his terminal. He would love to have a union representing them, but he heard so much negative information on the Teamsters,that he would rather be non-union than have the Teamsters steal their money. When I informed him about the APWA, he was eager to hear the details, and will check out the website. I will let you know what he thinks by next week after I see him again. At least he was open minded about an option other than the Teamsters. Why don't all you close minded people out there do some research before jumping to conclusions or believe the propaganda that the Teamsters are spewing your way, in order to enhance their hold on you.
brett636
Well-Known Member
My financial strategy is sound, what the teamsters do is not right, but what the APWA propose is equally wasteful. Give my a 401k match equal to the pension contributions made by UPS and I will gladly give up any claims to the pension.
Brett636 is saying what the teamsters in doing to the pension is wrong but in another breath he doesn`t advocate any change in options while the fleecing continues ? Comon guys go talk to your BA to get this straighten out ? Thats his approach ! Try to fix the wheel that keeps falling off the wagon instead of replacing with a new wheel ?
1 In a state of confusion ?
brett636
Well-Known Member
Brett636 is saying what the teamsters in doing to the pension is wrong but in another breath he doesn`t advocate any change in options while the fleecing continues ? Comon guys go talk to your BA to get this straighten out ? Thats his approach ! Try to fix the wheel that keeps falling off the wagon instead of replacing with a new wheel ?
I will say this in simple terms for your simple mind. The pension is only one issue of many. I do not cut my nose off despite my face. The APWA only addresses one issue, it does not address them all. Maybe if I wrote as horribly as some of the other APWA supporters you would understand?
RockyRogue
Agent of Change
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
. Now that I've picked myself up off the floor...Brett636 is saying what the teamsters in doing to the pension is wrong but in another breath he doesn`t advocate any change in options while the fleecing continues ? Comon guys go talk to your BA to get this straighten out ? Thats his approach ! Try to fix the wheel that keeps falling off the wagon instead of replacing with a new wheel ?
::::Sighs::::. Goose, I took a break from homework to tell you once again you need to have other options for your retirement. I'm not saying you're wrong about the fleecing, etc but...I'll tell you this: you have demostrated your ignorance and naivete by not having other options besides Teamster pensions. You're a feeder driver if memory serves. How about putting a little into a 401K? You guys earn every penny UPS pays you but how about putting a little aside on your own? If you did that, I might feel a little bad for you whimpering about your retirement issues. Being a young guy, I've read the pension horror stories in the newspapers from the last 5 years or so and the problems that began to surface in the 70's or so from archives in public libraries. Interesting reads from a certain perspective. Now, me...like I said, being a young guy, I probably won't have a pension to collect. And by the way, all you morons, the defined benefit pension plan is dying. I know, I know, it was said in the 70's too, but now its true. If I get that pension check every month and its 40% or less of what it should be, I'll feel like I won the lottery. This is because I'll have made other investments/plans. I'm not going to count on a pension managed by someone else!!!!!! Also, does the saying, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" ring a bell? -Rocky
RockyRogue
Agent of Change
Okay, maybe I didn't type what I should have. Pensions have been known to be scrapped. I think an avalanche of those are coming. Or...the mismanagement of the Teamster funds will make them fail. Its one or the other, Mittam. It might be just seeing which happens first. -Rocky
3brownstars
Well-Known Member
I agree with you on the fact of putting all your eggs in one basket is not a sound investment decision, I don't belive any resonable thinking person would disagree. It boils down to the fact that my employer gave money to my union on my behalf for a previously agreed upon retirement, and now the union is not living up to their end of the agreement.
When the IBT sits down at the table with UPS, the company looks across and sees a group of people desperate for their money. Why would UPS agree to pay one red cent more? What if they tell the IBT NO!! ? How many UPSers do you think will strike if the union doesn't get more money from UPS? Why would we? If the union gets more money for health and wellfair, Who says they won't turn around and shaft us again in a few years? Or on the other hand UPS says, "SURE, WE'LL GIVE YOU MONEY TO FIX YOUR LITTLE PENSION PROBLEM, BUT HERE IS THE LIST OF THINGS WE WANT IN RETURN" (I'll let your imagination create that list).
People have asked me "What bargaining power will the APWA have?". The answer is they are only as strong as the members allow them to be. Isn't that the case for any union?
