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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 84116" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>no spin,</p><p>Who has more warts? Well obvious IBT does because they've been around whereas APWA is a baby barely yet born. I like the APWA idea but it's not without it's perils. And one thing before going forward, it is Skillman not Silkman. For some reason I've got Van Silkman locked into my brain instead of Van Skillman. My apologies to Van who I consider not only a nice man but in many respects a good UPSer and in light of his current idea, a good union thinker as well contary to what others in the union movement might think. His sidekick Danny Eason gets a tip of the hat as well for having the guts to speak out with Van.</p><p> </p><p>Now as for APWA, I'm 1000% behind a UPS employee union. With IBT representing in effect some of the UPS competition, I do believe there are times the IBT has to operate in an interest more suited to the larger industry that to us as UPSers specifically. Having a UPS only union would place us under an agent acting on behalf of us and what's best for us and the company we work for. In some respects, the approach in areas could act more as a partnership than an antagonistic relationship. In other words we'd be in a better position to create contracts that provide for us and at the same time green light UPS to stretch into markets and areas that frankly the IBT would seem to protect in order to protect jobs and security for other IBT members. </p><p> </p><p>Problem is folks like Wiley who have moved on beyond UPS having paid the dues so to speak but also folks like myself still going having put in 25 years are asked to give that up knowing good and well if we do that with what our money via UPS contributions does for the various funds, if removed, these funds would fold and die. We almost face a damn if you, damn if you don't situation. As bad as it is we know with CS we have something although be it limited if it does fold but the APWA for now is at best a potential promising unknown. As I told Van, if you want to swell your numbers beyond belief then figure out a plan that would take care of the current UPS retirees, give credit to current employee for service years worked and I believe you'll have people beating down the APWA doors. Until then the risk is lesser staying the status quo although it's a large risk indeed. </p><p> </p><p>IMO, the ultimate solution I'd like that I'm not sure everyone would welcome would be a lump sum payout from the pension system to our 401k and then move on from there. If you did that the IBT knows they'd lose members at lightspeed and UPS wouldn't be happy because they'd lose the chance to control that vast amount of money to reinvest in the company as they see fit. And for those who believe that's a great thing I'll give you 3 letters to ponder to prove UPS ain't the sharpest knife in the draw. OPL!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 84116, member: 2189"] no spin, Who has more warts? Well obvious IBT does because they've been around whereas APWA is a baby barely yet born. I like the APWA idea but it's not without it's perils. And one thing before going forward, it is Skillman not Silkman. For some reason I've got Van Silkman locked into my brain instead of Van Skillman. My apologies to Van who I consider not only a nice man but in many respects a good UPSer and in light of his current idea, a good union thinker as well contary to what others in the union movement might think. His sidekick Danny Eason gets a tip of the hat as well for having the guts to speak out with Van. Now as for APWA, I'm 1000% behind a UPS employee union. With IBT representing in effect some of the UPS competition, I do believe there are times the IBT has to operate in an interest more suited to the larger industry that to us as UPSers specifically. Having a UPS only union would place us under an agent acting on behalf of us and what's best for us and the company we work for. In some respects, the approach in areas could act more as a partnership than an antagonistic relationship. In other words we'd be in a better position to create contracts that provide for us and at the same time green light UPS to stretch into markets and areas that frankly the IBT would seem to protect in order to protect jobs and security for other IBT members. Problem is folks like Wiley who have moved on beyond UPS having paid the dues so to speak but also folks like myself still going having put in 25 years are asked to give that up knowing good and well if we do that with what our money via UPS contributions does for the various funds, if removed, these funds would fold and die. We almost face a damn if you, damn if you don't situation. As bad as it is we know with CS we have something although be it limited if it does fold but the APWA for now is at best a potential promising unknown. As I told Van, if you want to swell your numbers beyond belief then figure out a plan that would take care of the current UPS retirees, give credit to current employee for service years worked and I believe you'll have people beating down the APWA doors. Until then the risk is lesser staying the status quo although it's a large risk indeed. IMO, the ultimate solution I'd like that I'm not sure everyone would welcome would be a lump sum payout from the pension system to our 401k and then move on from there. If you did that the IBT knows they'd lose members at lightspeed and UPS wouldn't be happy because they'd lose the chance to control that vast amount of money to reinvest in the company as they see fit. And for those who believe that's a great thing I'll give you 3 letters to ponder to prove UPS ain't the sharpest knife in the draw. OPL! [/QUOTE]
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