Are you comparing a steward to a lawyer?
Are You Working Feb 14th?
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
FedEx courier
Well-Known Member
Not in a completely literal sense, but I certainly wouldn't want to sit in such a meeting alone with 5 people on the other side against me. It's good to know you're always lurking in the shadows. Do you have a GFT process at Ground or any input on how a grievance process is different from the GFT process?
We have what is known as "Contractor Relations". Although they are company people, I've always thought they were relatively fair. I have had contract issues ruled both in my favor and against but always had things thoroughly hashed out.
FedEx courier
Well-Known Member
That's pretty interesting.
They'd rather be fair in house than have a lawsuit with real lawyers and everything. Things get so messy then.
I know this is about 4-5 pages after the question, but swing drivers cannot be drafted/forced. One of the benefits of being a swing. If they are being forced in your location, someone doesn't know what they are doing and should check with HR or read the Draft/Rotation list procedures.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Really? You'd rather stay in-house and go up against the FedEx army of lawyers on your own?
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
It's in the other thread that we've hijacked.
I didn't say that the manager decides the verdict. Doesn't the shop steward work for the company? And I really don't know so that's not a rhetorical question. I'm not making any assumptions. I'm going by what UpstateNYUPSer said.
So just to be clear, you would rather someone state your case for you than state it yourself?
The shop steward works for the company. He/she isn't in management's pocket like your local HR Rep, who is nothing but a company stooge. Who are you trying to fool?
no they would.
Why should I believe that HR is in management's pocket but the shop steward, who also works for the company, isn't?
What I've found very interesting is that as it has been relatively quite in the FedEx threads here recently, I took the time to read some of the UPS threads. Wouldn't you know it, they complain about exactly the same things. Also eye-opening was how bad they are treated and don't get the representation that you claim is so much better. There are plenty of examples of where the shop steward does nothing for them.
I highly recommend that anyone that thinks a union would be good for them takes the time to read through several of the UPS posts.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
A discussion of the pros and cons of a Union would be a great topic for our Labor forum but, for the purpose of your question, reading through several of the UPS posts would give you only one side of the discussion, that of the disgruntled employee. UPS and the Teamsters have provided me with an excellent wage and benefit package, one which has helped ensure the health and education of my children, and provided me with the job security that I need to do my job as best I can and will afford me financial piece of mind during my retirement.
On the down side, these benefits come at a price and it is this price point that has placed the company at a competitive disadvantage with FedEx and USPS. It has become much more difficult to secure new volume and more challenging to keep the volume that we have.
I have a few friends on the Express side and when they describe their workday to me I cringe. They come in and load their own package cars, deliver their loads, and then have to go the airport to load the planes. One of them drives a feeder across the lake after having delivered a full day. Yes, the volume is not comparable, but the hours worked far surpass what I work and I am a FT driver. Of course those hours do not include the extended unpaid "lunch" they are required to take.
IMO a Union at FedEx would have an effect opposite from the desired one and you would see a shift toward a contractor model for a combined FedEx with a lot of quality couriers being given their walking papers.
Before anyone jumps on Upstate about the eventual fall of the contractor model, I would like to report that all management staff here in western Illinois are being trained in the handling of the ISP model currently used in some states out east. Why would that be? My own guess is that barring any massive implosion of that model and seeing that it will not be challenged in the same way as the contractor model, Fedex may be looking at it as a final solution. Note: ISP is Independent Service Provider.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
bbsam, if you had read my last paragraph more carefully, you would see that you and I are in agreement and the ISP/Contractor model will be expanded and will handle all FedEx services.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
I love your "logic". It's been quiet here lately, so therefore we must be happy? I haven't been posting because I'm doing other things to try and create a career away from FedEx. So what if UPS complains about the same things. The difference is that they are paid very well and have great benefits. We don't. What's so hard to understand about that? The HR Rep is a tool for management because they exist for management, not the employee. The shop steward is an hourly employee, and presumably understands and advocates for the employee. The FedEx HR Rep answers to management...not the worker.
Read the last post from Upstate...he gets it and he doesn't even work here. Why do you remain such a cheerleader for a company that will happily rear-end you to Buffalo every chance they get?
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
OK, I'll bite. Let's say that Uncle Fred eventually gets his way and the ISP model gets the green light from the courts. The first thing he wants to do is eliminate all the traditional Express employees he can and then replace them with ISP's, right? How does the ISP attract driver candidates who can actually handle the job and also keep the cost advantages inherent in the model? Please imagine your present crop of tattooed trailer trash trying to do the job present Express employees do and then explain to me how you will replace them for less than the pittance Fred is currently paying? Most of them probably couldn't qualify for a ramp access badge, much less handle the much stricter time commitments inherent in the Express operation. I know it's hard for you to fathom, but there are actually some pretty bright people who work at Express that won't be easy to replace. If you worked on the Express side, you'd understand that it operates quite differently from Ground.
Show me where I said that you, or anyone else, must be happy. I never said anything remotely like that.
I would suggest that the current NMA be considered in terms of wages as that would likely be an indicator of what a union might effectively negotiate.
And the HR Rep is there for the employee too. Any employee can call them to discuss policy, get clarification on policy, etc. It's in their best interest to ensure that policy is followed fairly and consistently. If they are, in fact, there for management, then it would make sense that they protect management from making a million dollar mistake by making sure that the policies are followed. Just because someone doesn't agree with a policy doesn't necessarily make the policy unfair. I've had several situations where I felt that the managers were wrong, I discussed it with my senior manager and my HR rep and we got things resolved to my satisfaction.
That was my point. That by nature of this forum, things tend to be one sided. Reading the UPS posts yields the same type of complaints as the FedEx posts.
And I can say the same thing about FedEx regarding providing for my family etc. But that's just you and me. Other UPS and FedEx employees have their own experiences, both good and bad at both companies. As I have said before, I'm not willing to give up what I have for what I might get. And I believe what I might get is what you suggest with the contractor model.
It was actually your last paragraph that prompted my quote. It seems many folks seem that the contractor model is doomed to failure. They believe that it is a scam and that Fedex holds nearly complete control and that contractors should be classified as drivers and that in time the court would order this done. I was simply preempting that tired and neutered line of logic with the point that Fedex is ready to move to the ISP model which is incredibly independent and would not be challenged for three reasons: far fewer contractors/ISP's, far more profitable system for the ISP, very little company input on routes.
I understand your disdain for Ground. You, however, seem not to understand the concept of the ISP in it's differences with the contractor model. The courts are not involved in any ISP model cases. I understand the time commitments that Express operates under. I also understand the split shifts and 4 hour "lunch breaks" Driver who can handle the job? I wonder if Express drivers could handle a Ground route. You have always scoffed at Ground and probably always will. Remember what we were when Fedex first bought us? We are a much better company now. We will continue to get better with or without the condescension of our Express brothers.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
I understand that the ISP is the new "legal" plan for Ground. Most Express couriers are more likely to work the scenario Upstate described rather than taking 4 hr breaks. I used to start at 0630, do an all-day route, then drive the CTV (feeder) to the ramp every night too, so I know what he's talking about first-hand. And no, your average Ground clown couldn't do it and stay within Express standards for performance. So sorry.
