Art 34/sect 4/sub 1

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by area43, Oct 27, 2007.

  1. area43

    area43 New Member

    Article 34 in a nut shell. It states that 35 cents of our GWI(general wage increase) can be taken from us and used for our PENSION and HEALTH.

    UPSers, First you must understand one thing. There has to be some flex in the Contract. Meaning, you have to predict the future, per say. Think about the future. That is the key here. First the New UPS/IBT fund set up for the exiting UPSer's the balance is zero. Out of the 44,000 UPSer's that left how many are going to be retiring soon? Second, All full time service under the CS , will be credited to determine the service pension benefit eligibility under the new plan.

    The new plan will restore the service pensions benefits previously CUT by CS.

    Employees with 35 yrs of ser. can retire at any age with $3500 per month.

    Employees with 30 yrs of ser. can retire at any age will receive $3,000 per month. Plus an additional $100 per month for years over 30.

    Employees with 25 years prior to age 57 will receive $2,000 per month.

    Employees with 25 years and 57 or older will receive $2,500 month plus and add. $100 per month.

    Some say that there are active FT UPSers that are in CS that want to vote NO. If this is true. Great Day. Whats wrong with you guys? I just can't believe it. The 6.1 billion is money WELL spent. What would you be getting if you were to stay in the CS plan/Soon to be Government plan. The above rates are great. Vote YES and take it.

    Ok back to the 35 cents. UPSer's we have all heard about the new Government laws concerning our MEP/SEP pensions. Does 80% ring a bell. My fund(Joint council 83) is in the mid 70's(%wise). There has to be flex. Number one thing on the Teamster Members survey. Pension. Be careful what.....LOL. Don't worry folks I wont repeat it. UPS has already spent its profits for a 1 1/2 of the five year contract on the CS buy out. Plus they are offering a great pension for those 44,000 UPSer's. Its not just the older drivers getting the good deal. Its ALL drivers. One poster or many posters have mentioned how this job is tough on the body. Industrial athlete. Well, you still have the option to get out at 25 years at any age. Execellent.

    UPSer's let face it, just about all the MEPS/SEPS are in trouble. UPS needs some flex to stay competitive. This provides some wiggle room. Some will like to refer to the - 35 cents as a cut. Its not. We still have an increase.

    Health. Costs of health care have gone through the roof. UPS will still contribute(health monies) to the CS fund. They have just bought out the pension part. Those 44,000 will still have their insurance with Central States. In reference to the retiree's in the plan. The retirees are having to pay more per month($400 dollars, I believe) for their health coverage(husband and wife). This is a concern. What I am about to say next shouldn't be taken in a bad way. Medicare, shouldn't be too far off for you guys and gals. So as you can see. There is a light at the end of the tunnel and it isn't a train.

    In closing, the 35 cents is pocket change. Yea thats right. I said it. If it means shoring up the Pensions and helping aid in the health care crisis/insurance. I have no problem with that. take care Area 43
  2. Steward773

    Steward773 Member

    UPSer's let face it, just about all the MEPS/SEPS are in trouble. UPS needs some flex to stay competitive. This provides some wiggle room. Some will like to refer to the - 35 cents as a cut. Its not. We still have an increase.

    Yes they are, but why should I have to re-fund my pension. If I vote yes I would be letting whomever is responsible off the hook. Some argue that I don't fund my pension the company does. If we didn't have a pension plan the monies that the company puts into it would most likely reflect in our wages, so essentially we do fund our pensions. Also, yes we do have wage increases, but if those increases do not keep up with inflation than they really are not increases now are they? Not to argue 43, I see your point. I just like to look at things from both sides.:cool:
  3. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    Area43, the way I understand it is that $400 a month for a married couple will be an improvement, its much higher than that now. Plus, the current CS Pension is $2700 a month if you are single and $2550 if you are married. We are going to have our Contract Meeting next Saturday, I am still not sure of a lot of details about the new Pension. We also haven't seen any details about our Supplemental Agreement yet. The way I hear it, there will be two separate mail ballots to cover both the National and the Supplement. Some areas may even have a third ballot on a local issue.
  4. area43

    area43 New Member

    Hi 773. I'll try and answer your questions. Refund your pension. Sorry 773, we are all in this together. United. James Hoffa sr. made up this Mep plan. In a MEP or SEP theorically it is not your pension. Its a group thing. UPSer's and non UPSer's. Communism/Socialism/Social Security. When one segment of the population hurts we all hurt. We all must pay the price whether we like it or not. That is the down side. Who is responsible? Should we let them off the hook? NO. Teamsters are responsible. Again the Mep is their brain child. To skim off in the early days. Dont base your No vote on the fact that the problem lies on the way Teamsters handle our pensions. Don't put a hurt'n on UPS for the MEP. They(UPS) have fullfilled their obligation via negotiated pension contributions. The pension problems lies on our side of the fence. We the rank and file must deal with it. Again, the 401k. It gives literaly all the power back to the common laborer. Thats the route the APWA should have taken. Couple of the positives. No being vested. If a driver quits he can take his stash of cash with him. 401ks are transferrable. Etc, Etc. Just like the mechanics pension. The full timer gets the full dollar amount of the UPS's contribution. Execellent.

    Increases that don't keep up with inflation. Hmmmm. Do you factor all the overtime we get. The vacations. I guess it comes down to how you look at things. Half full/Half empty. 773, your basing the present contract on UPS's projected growth. Let me through this at you. Predictions(5 years down the road). Oil prices I believe will hit over a $100 a barrel. Right now its approaching $90. President Hillary Clinton, Perphaps in 08. Socialized health care. Who's going to pay for that? Higher tax's on Corporations and us. Lets talk about UPS's international outlook. Dhl has a strong hold in Europe/European community. China- we've invested billions. Fedex I believe has the edge over us when it comes to China. Iran might aquire a nuclear weapon. Terrorism. All that has to be considered by both parties when tackling the contract.

    773, our pension and health care plans are in a crisis. We are in a crisis mode. Our pay staying up with inflation. This is my solution to your problem. With all do respects. Cut back in your own life. Ill give you some suggestions. Cable Tv. LOL Don't buy a new car. Keep your wife's spending in check. What I also see with the no voters is this. They have made the Lifestyle CHOICES that will affect/effect their vote. My Dad once said, "The neighbors have beer money, but have champagne tastes". Does your spending habits reflect your income? Example. A driver that is single will probably vote yes. He made the choice to stay single. A married couple with no children the driver will probably vote yes. Those that have made the CHOICES to live well below their means will vote Yes. Those that have made lets say the Big purchases(also Big families) and are finacialy strapped will say they don't make enough and vote No. With all due respect if you have Champagne taste, go back to school and get a job that equals that.
  5. area43

    area43 New Member

    Hi Scratch, is those pension amounts based on any age out our do you have to be like 59 or 62 to get it. That is what our retiree's pay in our plan for health care($400). All those different plans. LOL
  6. Steward773

    Steward773 Member

    43, heck I agree that it's not the company's fault about the condition of m/e pensions. They were giving the money, it's from that point on that things went sour. You don't know what might happen in the future that may affect our pensions. That is why I feel that they should let us have that money so we can control our own future. Then if you hit retirement age and can't afford it you can't blame anyone but yourself.

    I'm a realist, I understand that we can't keep getting huge raises every year. But please don't chip away at all the other language in the contract, it is a 2 way street. Always keep in the back of your mind that this company makes record profits every year. At what point can you say that corporate greed has taken over? I understand that the company has to look out for future interest, but at the expence of the workers who maintain it's business. I look around in my building and there are packages flowing out of the doors! At peak we have to load trucks in the middle isles. Every year stop counts keep rising and we hire more than are retiring. So the company can say that we are losing business, but all the evidence leads me to believe that it's not true.

    As for me, shoot I still wear clothes back from high school :laugh:. I have a wife and kids, small house in a quiet neighborhood. And I try to save as much money as possible. One piece of advise I give to new drivers is to do that because you can't rely on retiring and living off your pension(if you even have one). I just want to be healthy when I retire so I can enjoy what years I have left:thumbup1:.
  7. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    We have to be 62 to draw full amount, you can retire at 57.5 years with a 6% penalty per year.
  8. Cole

    Cole New Member

    How's it going 43?

    I think the pension aspect is pretty descent, but I have issues with the unions lack of info on the Supplements, particularly the Atlantic area. I understand somewhat some of the concessions, but for anyone to have to wait a year before getting benefits is not right. As far as the Supplement, I have to wonder what's going on there as they have given out zero info on it, and I am quite interested to see what has been added as Cardinal Infractions now, and other language changes.

    Until I see the National and the Supp, I cannot give an honest yes or no opinion.
  9. area43

    area43 New Member

    Old wise one. In all due respect. I quoted the Cs pension rates on the UPS contract update I received in the mail. It was written on Oct 18. Yes, Cole there will be supplements. The letter endorsed the meat and potato's of the contract. That is the main ingredient of the contract. The supplements are the Preservatives and the additives. My question is, will you reject the contract based on the preservatives and the additives? Its give and take. Helping out our Brothers and Sisters in the CS plan is the main ingredient. Lets not be greedy. Lets stay united. Why would the Teamsters already endorse and support a "Yes" vote before all the supplements came out?
  10. Damok

    Damok Member

    Supps are posted on the Teamsters site now.
  11. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    I just got back from my mailbox. Today I got my first info from UPS about the new pension plan. Its just some brief highlights and a Q&A sheet regarding the new plan. An insert says we will get more details soon along with our ratification ballot.
  12. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Brother area, i am willing to put my raises towards my pension plan similiar to what the mechanics did to better their retirement plan. However the teamsters and ups have snuck this language into the contract, making us seem like we will receive $4 over the 5 years in wage increases while they have no intention of fulfilling our wages. The only reason they worded it so is under false pretences to make it seem fair while it will encourage people to vote yes for it. Why not come out and tell us up front that we will not be receiving the full yearly raises, and that they will be diverting it towards pension, health and welfare. This is ok to many ftimers, but once again you are talking about ripping off the p-timer in hourly yearly raises.
  13. Damok

    Damok Member

    I'm one of those PT's and frankly I believe you're right. However, and this is where we probably disagree, I don't think we'll get any kind of improvement by going back to negotiate more. If the pension wasn't such an important issue and wasn't in such dire need of a fix I would be seriously considering voting no. As it stands, I'll be voting yes and adding to my "list 'o stuff" in preparation for the future.
  14. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    How do you know we cant improve? Imagine if the founders of this once great union gave in at times of crisis and did not stand up for what they believed were would we be at right now. If that is the only reason you are voting no brother, i believe you owe it to the teamsters that came before you that stood tall, that struck for days, weeks, months and even years and even died to create a level work place for us. There is no strike talk over this contract, this is nothing more than lets see if we can sel this to the members, well if we cant find it in our soles to just check no and send both of these sell outs back to the table, then the teamster movement has lost and those who once had great visions for us sacraficed for NOTHING.
  15. Damok

    Damok Member

    I knew that would draw some ire but I honestly believe with the pension being in such bad shape and the fact that it is a huge issue for the membership that our negotiating power for additional items is severely limited. I was never concerned with a no vote somehow causing a strike, I fully understand what past Teamsters have done to get us where we are today but I also firmly believe that we should negotiate our biggest gains from a position of strength. I don't believe we have that now and voting it down will weaken our position further. This contract is by no means the best or the worst, in my opinion, no matter what others may say.

    I don't agree at all with your assertion we have lost and those who came before us sacrificed for nothing. I believe that Organizing freight and the gains with organizing Fed Ex, albeit small at this point, will only put us in a stronger position down the road. My eye is toward the future and how we can grow stronger as the political environment becomes more favorable to Labor after the next Presidential election and when the inevitable Labor friendly changes happen in Congress. I do not make this decision lightly or without regard for my brothers and sisters.
  16. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    I respect your thoughts and agree that the ibt is in no position of strength, this is pretty evident just by looking at this contract. Ups has been allowed out of cs and in exchange has granted a card check agreement with ups freight. Why should we have to suffer in exchange foe either? I dont mind my money helping out our brothers and sisters in cs, but im not willing to sacrafice key language that we will never get back without a strike down the road. Now with freight it has no business being discussed during our contract or should it have any bearing, but yet it does. The kicker here is we are only allowed to organize without a fight from ups, nothing is guaranteed, they do not have to vote the teamsters in, and with all due respect if i was a freight worker and saw this contract they would not be getting a vote from me. I believe that you should always stand up and fight for what you believe in, however i donot havea vote in this so i will have to wait for my local contract to come up and we made it clear that it will not pass in 705.
  17. crystal_ball

    crystal_ball New Member

    I am in CS and at age 55 I will have 20 years FT and 7 years PT. Will the PT portion of the pension change?

    I dont know anyone who pays MSRP for a new car or asking price for a home, so I think there is more negotiating to be done here. It seems like this is being shoved down our throats.
  18. Cezanne

    Cezanne New Member

    ''AMEN BROTHER"...:thumbup1:
  19. silverfox

    silverfox New Member

    just remember that alot of your brothers and sisters are still in c/s. we all had a stake in helping ups grow to its current super power status. i left in 2006 with 31 plus years and feel i should not have to wonder about my pension. i know c/s has alot of other companys in it, but don't forget us upsers that put our years in at this company.
  20. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Not so. "The Central States payment, for UPS's remaining obligations to the plan, was estimated by analysts at $3.9 billion after tax." At bit less than 1 year's profit.