Article7. What are the cardinal infractions?

Discussion in 'The Archives' started by upslocal480, Aug 25, 2002.

  1. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    Article 7. Local And Area Grievance Machinery it says "Except in cases involving cardinal infractions under the applicable Supplement, Rider or Addendum, an employee to be disharged or suspended shall be allowed to remain on the job, wihout loss of pay unless and until the discharge or suspension is sustained under the grievance procedure." What are the cardinal infractions? I didn't see anything about it in the Southern Supplement.
     
  2. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    Each supplement is different. Ask your local.
     
  3. bushwacker

    bushwacker Guest

    Lieguy knows that in reality the cardinal infractions are anything that management wants to terminate an employee. They just call it dishonesty. Mistakes of any kind are classified as dishonesty and they terminate anytime they want. If the supplimental agreements list them there is always that "and other infractions" that pretty much include just about anything. That's just the way they like it too. Become too union active, stir things up, get needed greviencie filed and there's always something that will fit into the dishonesty or and other catigory to get you terminated. But lieguy will not admitt to this now will he? He know it's true though.
     
  4. thedrooler

    thedrooler Guest

    wacker

    Dishonesty is a cardinal rule infraction, at least in this part of the country. Its pretty simple. If you commit a dishonest act, you can be terminated. Dishonesty comes in many forms. Dishonesty doesn't simply mean stealing money or goods. Can you elaborate on some instances where employees you know were terminated for dishonesty when what they did was not dishonest.

    Drooler
     
  5. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    My answer:Each supplement is different. Ask your local.

    Your answer:Lieguy knows that in reality the cardinal infractions are anything that management wants to terminate an employee.

    It appears that my answer was certainly more specific and honest. Bushwacker must be calling himself lieguy these days.
     
  6. luther

    luther Guest

    }unexceptable work{ mechanics an drivers alike
    have been termed for this, an it works on anybody..
     
  7. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    Dishonesty is one? Isn't that a contradiction on managements part? If that applied to them then I know at least 10 sups in Nashville that would have been fired years ago! I had a sup there that would lie to someone's face at least once a week. That same sup lied to my face and told me I couldn't transfer to another UPS but I just kind of laughed and said its in the contract instead of doing and saying what I wanted to say. I always heard there were 3 cardinal infractions. Stealing, Sexual Harrassment, and the third was always the one that was different depending on who I'd ask. It was usually fighting. And if it were that easy to get rid of someone for dishonesty than a truck load of union people would be fired every week! So how can UPS expect to fairly inforce such a common fualt in people As a cardinal infraction? Especially when just as many of the sups are dishonest as the hourlys?
     
  8. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    I guess its a waste of breath but it sounds like you need to buy your steward lunch and let him educate you rather than seek answers from a message board where the person answering you may work under a different supplement.
     
  9. luther

    luther Guest

    Central States says --after you retire you can no longer work. Only at jobs they say you can, an there are no set rules...Has anyone tried this in COURT. I heard that UPSERS in Ca. did an won...}.
     
  10. lr1937

    lr1937 Guest

    It is my opinion that the cardinal rules are those that if the company did not fire the offender immediately the union takes the position that it could have not been that bad if you let the person continue to work. Important cases, at least from the companies point of view, have been lost by not terminating an individual on the spot. So if you are up tight about people being fired without a hearing or innocent until proven guilty I suggest that some of the problem lies with the unions position on not firing on the spot. The cardinal rules are based on past experience with the unions position, on if its that bad you should not allow the person to continue working. In addition if you get burned by not firing immediately you take no chances when confronted with what may be a cardinal.
    JMHO
     
  11. thedrooler

    thedrooler Guest

    You can't work at a job that could be done by an "active" teamster. In other words no job that is part of a collective bargaining agreement with the IBT. Da Boyz want their dues money.

    Drooler
     
  12. cardinal infractions do not apply to members of a local management team. It's just hard for me to imagine that a company like UPS, with our great public image, allows their managers and supervisors to lie to them.

    It happens every day. As long as they make their center's numbers look good on paper, no one seems to be interested in how they achive those numbers.

    we have service problems, such as:

    "Just record that misload as NI 1"
    or
    "Just bring that package in and give it to the clerk" (means do not record the package at all)

    do these things happen in your center? what's wrong with being honest and recording the package as 'missed'? Do we all think that on a national basis, no one ever has a service failure anymore?
     
  13. lr1937

    lr1937 Guest

    Teamstermbr
    I have seen more management people lose their jobs for dishonesty than union people. What you describe should cost a manager his job. On the other hand I have seen many drivers deliberately fail to report missed packages and send agains and other dishonest acts but get of or be given a second chance by the company or the panel. Every group has its dishonesty and in most cases their dishonesty catches up with them.
    You make it sound like only management people are dishonest and get away with it . No one management or hourly should get away with it.
     
  14. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    Agreed , the union person caught lying or not reporting missed pieces gets a warning letter, the management person loses his job.