Atheists

[over9five]

Don't get mad! I didn't teach my children either. I let them decide when they were old enough.
It just gets me mad when parents indoctrinate their young children who are not mature enough to make decisions for themselves. They are going to be assimilated to the beliefs of their parents. I think it is very unfair to such a young undeveloped mind.
Which is why I'd suggest bringing all this up when they're old enough to make up their own mind.

I'd also say the same thing to an Atheist. Let the child grow up, and then let them decide. Don't force YOUR beliefs on a 4 year old. It's not right.

 

[804brown]

And to what local did Jesus belong ? It wasn't local 666. And I don't picture him as a teamster....more like an artist....maybe SAG or AFTRA or IAU.

As far as kids, We always had the saying hung on the wall that "children learn what they live".

Jesus would probably be a socialist in the IWW, the "Wobblies"!!

 

[804brown]

Tos,

We are moving away from religion and God.

We are moving away from the typical family unit.

We are moving away from marriage

We see more children born out of wedlock and into poverty.

We see more sex and violence on TV and less family oriented shows.

We see more and more dropouts and less educated motivated people.

We see more takers than self sufficient givers.

Wow --We are really progressing to that Liberal Utopia !!! On a different thread 804 wanted to ban Christmas and Santa !!!

Did I say i wanted to ban christmas or santa?? In my house I am santa !! I was just poking some political fun at the fat man, get over it!!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Over, I understand your point but have to disagree with you. One of the roles of a parent is to instill the faith and values that they possess in to their children. Whether these values include religion depends upon the parents. Both my ex and I were raised in Catholic households and as such raised our children in the Catholic faith. We gave them the choice when they turned 16 as to what direction they wanted to take with their faith--both decided to stop going to church.

The ironic part is my daughter married in to a Lutheran family, was married in a Lutheran ceremony and faithfully attends and actively participates in a Lutheran church. I have attended a Lutheran mass with them and I have to tell you I would probably be more active in the church if I were a member of a Lutheran church. They follow the same basic doctrine but are more of a partner rather than a dictator that their Catholic counterparts. The mass was nearly 1.5 hours long but seemed to fly by as the congregation was an active participant rather than an obedient bystander.

 

[Catatonic]

Don't get mad! I didn't teach my children either. I let them decide when they were old enough.
It just gets me mad when parents indoctrinate their young children who are not mature enough to make decisions for themselves. They are going to be assimilated to the beliefs of their parents. I think it is very unfair to such a young undeveloped mind.
Which is why I'd suggest bringing all this up when they're old enough to make up their own mind.

I'd also say the same thing to an Atheist. Let the child grow up, and then let them decide. Don't force YOUR beliefs on a 4 year old. It's not right.

Do you have any children Ovah?

This sounds like someone that does not have or has not had children because children learn from what they see and observe ... not what their parents "teach" them.
If the parents and their children are active in church or actively incorporate religion into their daily lives, they are just living their life. The children will be more influenced and taught by this daily living than they ever will by words.

And at a more general level, it is the responsibility of the parents to "teach" their kids morality and responsibility along with many other things. Religion is one construct in which this can be done ... Secular Humanism may be a construct for atheists. Either is a way to pass onto the next generation the accumulated wisdom of human interrelations, socially acceptable behavior, a sense of responsibility and a system of morality. Parents that try to do this on their own will leave many gaps and many, many inconsistencies that tend to result in kids that try to compete in a society that they don't understand and have a hard time fitting in and understanding why their behavior is important.

Why all the above? Religion makes this easier for parents who are smart enough to know they don't have all the answers.

 

[Jones]

Do you have any children Ovah?

This sounds like someone that does not have or has not had children because children learn from what they see and observe ... not what their parents "teach" them.
If the parents and their children are active in church or actively incorporate religion into their daily lives, they are just living their life. The children will be more influenced and taught by this daily living than they ever will by words.

And at a more general level, it is the responsibility of the parents to "teach" their kids morality and responsibility along with many other things. Religion is one construct in which this can be done ... Secular Humanism may be a construct for atheists. Either is a way to pass onto the next generation the accumulated wisdom of human interrelations, socially acceptable behavior, a sense of responsibility and a system of morality. Parents that try to do this on their own will leave many gaps and many, many inconsistencies that tend to result in kids that try to compete in a society that they don't understand and have a hard time fitting in and understanding why their behavior is important.

Why all the above? Religion makes this easier for parents who are smart enough to know they don't have all the answers.

As I recall Ovah does indeed have children. I don't but I'll point out that teaching kids right from wrong has no relation to teaching them to believe in the supernatural. It is possible to teach children that murder, stealing, etc, is immoral and wrong without also teaching them that if they don't accept JC as their personal lord and savior that they will burn in hell for eternity.
Religion makes it easier not because religious parents are smarter, but because it's easier to answer a child's questions about right and wrong with "Because god says so" instead of taking the time to give a real answer (and I'm not saying that all religious parents do this, but I've certainly seen it done). Religion is not a precursor to morality. Good parents are good parents regardless of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

 

[trplnkl]

For the record...Mickey Mouse is a cartoon character, nothing more, nothing less. LOL

Personally I think the article is well written and right on point.

 

[Babagounj]

A word of advice to the Wisconsin-based authoritarians at the Freedom From Religion Foundation — don’t mess with Texas:

The battle over a nativity scene in Athens, Texas, reached new heights this weekend when up to 5,000 supporters flooded the town square. Their purpose? To stand firmly opposed to the attacks a prominent atheist group has waged on the religious display.
​

The Grinches from Wisconsin demand that the nativity scene be removed because they regard anything anywhere not in compliance with their ideology to be offensive. Apparently the locals regard meddling moonbats as offensive.

 

[moreluck]

A word of advice to the Wisconsin-based authoritarians at the Freedom From Religion Foundation — don’t mess with Texas:

The battle over a nativity scene in Athens, Texas, reached new heights this weekend when up to 5,000 supporters flooded the town square. Their purpose? To stand firmly opposed to the attacks a prominent atheist group has waged on the religious display.
​

The Grinches from Wisconsin demand that the nativity scene be removed because they regard anything anywhere not in compliance with their ideology to be offensive. Apparently the locals regard meddling moonbats as offensive.

If I was one of those 5000, I'd say "C'mon down, Cheeseheads and we'll show you how we put the holes in the swiss!

 

[Covemastah]

A thoughtful phrase on a non believers gravestone "All Dressed Up And No Where To Go !!!!"

 

[Covemastah]

These laws of ethics we live by came from somewhere !!! Like The 10 commandments !!!!

 

[The Other Side]

These laws of ethics we live by came from somewhere !!! Like The 10 commandments !!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

TO say that we live by some words etched in a couple of rocks is ludicrous.

That would mean that "man" didnt have any common sense until "GOD" gave it to us. Are people really this dumb?

Peace.

 

[Catatonic]

As I recall Ovah does indeed have children. I don't but I'll point out that teaching kids right from wrong has no relation to teaching them to believe in the supernatural. It is possible to teach children that murder, stealing, etc, is immoral and wrong without also teaching them that if they don't accept JC as their personal lord and savior that they will burn in hell for eternity.
Religion makes it easier not because religious parents are smarter, but because it's easier to answer a child's questions about right and wrong with "Because god says so" instead of taking the time to give a real answer (and I'm not saying that all religious parents do this, but I've certainly seen it done). Religion is not a precursor to morality. Good parents are good parents regardless of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

I don't disagree with anything stated .

I personally have never heard anyone say or tell their kids "if they don't accept JC as their personal lord and savior that they will burn in hell for eternity." That is certainly painting with a very broad brush and maybe true of some Christians but none I have ever talked too ... seems a bit extreme to me.

 

[MrFedEx]

These laws of ethics we live by came from somewhere !!! Like The 10 commandments !!!!

Those without proof have belief...

 

[Jones]

I don't disagree with anything stated .

I personally have never heard anyone say or tell their kids "if they don't accept JC as their personal lord and savior that they will burn in hell for eternity." That is certainly painting with a very broad brush and maybe true of some Christians but none I have ever talked too ... seems a bit extreme to me.

Well, you're right about that being a very broad brush and I certainly don't believe that all Christians or even the majority of Christians feel that way, I was probably responding to some of the other broad brushes that have been used in this thread, like the article linked in the OP.
For the record though I have talked to Evangelicals who believe that (though they probably don't express it quite like that to their own kids). Basically the idea is that it doesn't matter what you do in this world, you could be the most charitable, honest, and virtuous person who ever walked the earth but if you don't accept JC then you don't go to Heaven.

 

[moreluck]

Well, you're right about that being a very broad brush and I certainly don't believe that all Christians or even the majority of Christians feel that way, I was probably responding to some of the other broad brushes that have been used in this thread, like the article linked in the OP.
For the record though I have talked to Evangelicals who believe that (though they probably don't express it quite like that to their own kids). Basically the idea is that it doesn't matter what you do in this world, you could be the most charitable, honest, and virtuous person who ever walked the earth but if you don't accept JC then you don't go to Heaven.

Used to be taught that only Catholics went to heaven. Even if you did accept JC, if you were Lutheran,Episcopalian, whatever, you weren't getting in.

As little kids we were told if we didn't go to church every Sunday, we'd go to hell because it was a mortal sin to miss Mass. I always wanted the nuns to get me the mimeographed list of venial sins so I would know how bad I could be without being comdemned to hell and maybe just get a stretch in Purgatory.

 

[Catatonic]

Those without proof have belief...

That explains why some people think Obama has done a good job as president.

 

[PT Stewie]

My late wonderful father said it to everybody in parting "may God bless you " I wish I could be more like him.

 

[toonertoo]

My late wonderful father said it to everybody in parting "may God bless you " I wish I could be more like him.

u are like him.

 

[wkmac]

These laws of ethics we live by came from somewhere !!! Like The 10 commandments !!!!

That statement would suggest that prior to about 1200 BCE, there were no ethics, no morality that condemned murder, theft and lying. Accepting the premise of a 6k year old earth, one would have to ask until Moses, what was the moral foundation on which the likes of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob would rely on as their moral and ethical guide?

If the 10 Commandments are the original source of moral ethics, how do you account for the same moral ideals as no murder, no theft, no lying being so commonplace across the planet, across the span of time/people and until the last 2k years, over a vast majority of those people who were completely unaware of the Moses account and the ideal of the Judaic code and it's god?

There is a scientific school of thought that morality comes not from a higher being but could in fact come from nature itself. The fact that morality is observed in animals might suggest that morality's source is not necessary by an action of a higher or supernatural being. What if we learned that morality was an action of the evolutionary process in nature rather than the process of religious dogma or doctrine?

As to the original post of the article from Townhall, I do agree taking the time, energy and resources to try and litigate public christmas displays is a waste. All IMO could be used in other better means but then christian folk seem to do a good job of using these types events to re-enforce their own ideals and purpose so it works out in the end. Besides, no lawsuits are needed IMO to get the point across so there you go!

I find the vast majority of people contrary to what they say really aren't interested in the "REAL" reason for the season!