Benefits Questions

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by I'mTheMan, Oct 4, 2008.

  1. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    I have a question to ask you something? It's been 2 months now that I am back to part time since from eliminated from 22.3 and just got a letter right now from my health, dental, mental & vision insurance for full time benefits has been terminated. So will I go to get part time benefits? I really do not like the plan but I have worked very well with my full time benefits for over 6 years. Just got a renew full time union benefits last July this year and got me a better coverage to deal with basics on this new contract. Now I will get a UPS part time benefits? I spoke with one of my former shop steward and he told me that I should've keep the full time benefits while longer till the union working with the panels and still on going discussion pending with UPS to find another way to keep 22.3 going due to contract for 2008-2013. Any thoughts or comments or feedback would be appreciate it because I'm trying to find something where I can't think of?
     
  2. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Is there a thread on the subject of terminating 22.3 jobs? The contract language seems clear enough: Article 22, Section 3, last paragraph: "The number of full-time jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 of the 1997-2002 and 2002-2008 Agreements shall not be reduced. ...the Employer shall provide...a report detailing and identifying the full-time jobs which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph." Why wasn't your job on the list? Anyway, if you worked enough hours last month as a pt to gen a H&W contrib from UPS, you are entitled to pt benefits. The money had to go somewhere.
     
  3. sortaisle

    sortaisle Livin the cardboard dream

    The language is really weak though, what it doesn't say is that the jobs have to be maintained in the same building. They can cut jobs from say Spokane, but they don't have to replace them in Spokane, they can be moved to say Seattle and UPS has still fulfilled the contract for said number of jobs. At least I haven't read where they have to maintain the jobs in the same building.
     
  4. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    Well the very problem is that UPS is refusing to provide the lists to the union regarding the jobs. Instead UPS told the union that UPS is ongoing processing to eliminated all the 22.3 jobs in Seattle and Redmond this year and next year as planned. UPS has already completed eliminated the jobs at Boeing Field a month ago and this is was provided without warning to the unions about it and just told the workers to leave the premises for good and sent them back to hubs at part time without a 45 days notice of chance of operations and sort closure on the night sort. Thats is why UPS never, ever liked 22.3 jobs at all. The only full time applies is to package car driver and feeder drivers that UPS always liked.
     
  5. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    On the contrary, the language I quoted is pretty clear on that point. It says THE JOBS ON THE LIST are to be maintained, not merely that the number of jobs on the list are to remain at 20,000. There was a similar requirement to provide a list under the last contract, and I saw a portion of that list about a year ago, as provided by the National to my Local. My job has a number, my name, a location, and two parts, "CAPTURE" and "HUB/SORT". I can't believe that an arb will buy the notion that deleting my job and adding another somewhere else "maintains" the same job.
     
  6. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    An arbitrator would buy it because it gives a number the must maintain, it doesnt say it needs to keep current staffing at locations, so as long as that number is there system wide there isnt an issue. The only thing UPS did wrong in this example is they didnt give notice of change of operations thats it.
     
  7. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    I agree with you. Plus we are still waiting for the word from NLRB too as well. Unless if NLRB discovers that UPS is doing seriously dead wrong and the NLRB judge may orders the 31 former Boeing Field FT back to work at Boeing Field and UPS would have to force to re-open the night sort. Plus a lot of back pay is owed & benefits too. I know Redmond, Seattle Hubs are full and we can't bump other full timers off from hubs either so that only leave a tough choice is at Boeing Field. I'm sure this would comes to understanding and avoidable headache if you know what I mean?
     
  8. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Wrong. When they closed the Night Hub you had a right to follow the work wherever it went, keeping your seniority (National Master, Article 38, Section 1, Subsection c, procedure (1)). Then, a MOE attached to our (Nor Cal) rider says (and yours almost certainly has similar language) "Article 22.3 employees shall be included and made a part of the single full time seniority list in each building where they are located for lay off, bidding purposes and...overtime." If you had more seniority than any full time worker at the other hub, and chose to follow your work there, you had a right to bump him.

    What part of "a report detailing and identifying the full-time jobs which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph" are you missing? It's the jobs themselves, as identified and detailed in the report, and not merely the number of jobs, that must be maintained, per the contract language.
     
  9. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    Well we're not contract with your contract with NorCal. Sorry. this is a different one and still, we cannot bump other 22.3 full time job combos. Right now there's still a continue a elimination of jobs for 22.3 in Pacfic Northwest and across the country.

    I'm not missing anything at this moment. Right now all of our jobs are on layoffs and gone for good and company is not going to give us new bidding for jobs and we are stuck here for part time for a long time. As we gets new part time benefits, reduced vacations, and new part time pay rate too. Just found out monday that we will no longer keep full time pay rate for good. Progression wages will be returned back to the company which we don't get to keep anymore. If the volume rose up and everything by 2009, new biddings will be posted and start from day one all over again like I had when I went full time in 2002 till 2008. I hope I go back to Boeing Field as full time in near the future. We're talking about in a year or two to go back there and do the job like we always do over there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  10. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    The part of the contract that allows you to follow your work is the National, not NorCal. The comment about missing the point was directed at drewed, not you, if you look back at my post. Apparently you're under the JC28 rider, which is available at the makeupsdeliver.org website, and says, in part "Any full-time Article 22.3/40 combination employee whose...work assignment is fully or partially eliminated, shall have the following options: ... 3. Dovetail into his/her original seniority list AT THEIR FULL-TIME WAGE RATE...." So, is it your BA telling you you won't keep your wage or is it management? What were your jobs a Boeing Field, and did they shut down all shifts? Where did you go and what shifts operate in your new building?
     
  11. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    I honestly wish you the best, but please don't count on the NLRB to rule on your side. The NLRB is so one-sided towards management and typically rules in favor of big business over unions under this current republican run administration.

    It could also be that if the NLRB rules in your favor your local would than be able to take a job action against ups to force them to put you back with all lost wages.
     
  12. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    I apologize gandydancer if I misunderstood you on couple of things but I will answer to your questions. It was the BA that made the decisions regarding that we will get our new part time pay rate starting in Aug 2009 as from what I was told. UPS did not made those decisions regarding those pay rates. UPS has nothing to do with it as it just union BA make those calls regarding on contract. When I went to Boeing Field to do 22.3 job, on the night sort, I did pick off and load 3 day volumes to container. Then on the sunrise sort at Boeing Field, I did all equipment ramp work as such as push and pull, push back all aircrafts, air start and de-ice. I also handled crew meals to make sure it's on their flight. I took a lot of responsibilities there and I was really really happy there. The managements trusted my work and knows I always take the job seriously than the union does. Then when I got layoff, forced me back to part time at very last minute without warning, I was sent back to Seattle Hub and they put me back to my old job on first 2 hours on air dock and last 2 hours in small sort. I had good 6 year being full time and now it looks like I am at it all over again but as the grim looks for new full time job may be as well very tough because once peak season is done by end of this year, UPS will end all 22.3, will layoffs more package car drivers and feeder driver and cutting down some business as well in order for UPS to shape up their market stock outlook for 2009 recovery. So union can do any decision they want and tell us what we can have or can't have. That's all I can tell you on this.
     
  13. I'mTheMan

    I'mTheMan New Member

    I never knew that NLRB is on one side to this management. I thought I had study that NLRB is on union side whatever the judgement come out of this? My union told me that they filed one issue with 22.3 problems to solve with NLRB. Sounds like tough battle? Are this in appeals cases like this? I hope NLRB gets in our 31 of us favor to force UPS to return our jobs and full back pay and benefits and if they finds it that "without warning" then it could tell UPS that it was too late to provide 45 days notice at the same time we were forced to be asked to leave the building and go back to part time right away?
     
  14. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    Im not missing anything about it, Im saying what Ive always said with the BFI layoffs the only thing UPS did was not give the notice of change of operations, so at the most theyd probably would get is back pay. Theres not a whole lot the union can do about lack of volume/ change of operations.
     
  15. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    You're right that if the contract is on your side and the Union isn't then your grievance rights aren't worth a warm pail of spit. But I understand there are 40 22.3's that have been sent to part time. All 40 of you need to demand a sit-down with your BA so he can explain to you why, if he isn't taking payola from management, your contractual rights (which I've pointed out to you are unambiguous) aren't being supported. Your legal benefit won't help you, unfortunately, but with 40 of you aggrieved you ought to be able gen up a consult with a labor lawyer about a failure-to-represent suit. Unless the BA's story is really good. Hard to imagine how it could be.