"BLack Thursdays"

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upsdawg

Guest
Demands! I wasn't demanding anything, just a never ending wish list---bigger--better--that is the American way isn't it? If I don't get my way I know that my Teamster Higharchy will put my "wishes" on the agenda for the next contract.

Actually , I think it isn't demanding or wishing, but actually "Entitled" to because I did make it through my probationary period, or I have been here 10 years--or 20 years--and the company has made so much money because of my sweat---aren't I entitled to something to make my life easier??

The good old "Thrift Plan"-----everybody shared in the success of UPS---sorry only $6 a week!! Has all of these new "whines" resulted because we are no longer sharing in the fruits of our labors??
 
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thedrooler

Guest
saintteamo

I'm not confused at all. I know banal stupidity when I see it, and I'm looking right at you. Socialism has never worked and never will. And yes, exploitation and socialism are not mutually exclusive. There are "haves" and "have nots" in every economic system. So don't waste your idiotic ideology on me. Save it for the feebleminded "whoa is me " crowd that you are a proud part of.

Drooler
 
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upsdawg

Guest
Saint

I am having a little difficulty comparing Tumbleweed Amusement with UPS.

I am also having difficulty even thinking of any companies that would pay above the normal pay rate and have above normal benefits for their employees. I know of no other companies out there that do not charge their employees for their health care.The other exception is companies that provide coverage for the entire family at no additional cost.

The non-union side of UPS gets the health care costs deducted from their checks weekly. If an employee wants coverage for the entire family--the cost is higher--vision? cost is even higher--dental? cost is even higher!

I am grateful to work for a company that provides health care to it's employees. I have needed the coverage over the years for major medical--for myself, as well as family members--and if you have used them you know what I mean,

So--Saint, if you did indeed provide the same type of coverage for your amusement employees--higher than the norm for not only them but there entire families(Like the coverage that UPS provides) than not only am I "Amused"--but my hat indeed goes off to you!
 
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dammor

Guest
At the risk of offending anyone I must say it seems we have an epidemic of diaper rash going on here. Good news is that it goes away when the irritated ones wake up from their little nap and join the real world. It's pretty simple really. We work , we get payed. If we are fortunate enough to get payed well and also have good benefits then we are to be counted amoung the lucky ones. Look around folks. The world is tough. Attitude is as important as health. The only way we will be successful is if the company is. Buy some stock and start feeling like you are part of it. You already are whether you know it or not.
 
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tieguy

Guest
Oh Kimberly what did you do with the proceeds from your tee shirt sale. Did you victimize the poor part-timers. Where is your accountability. Where is the information that tells us where the proceeds are and who's keeping it in trust.
 
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lcarroll

Guest
Howdy!

This is my first post here after lurking about for a few days so I'm going to just jump right in with both feet...

After battling my way through the page-long blocks of unformatted (other than Caps-Lock abuse) posts by saintteamo I felt I just had to address a few things.

I guess that first I should point out that I'm a P/T Sup, so I'm one of the evil ones. I've only been with UPS for about a year and a half now, so maybe the brain-washing hasn't fully kicked in yet? Anyway... to the points.

"Part-Time Poverty": This assertion defeats itself by its very phrasing! By definition a part-time job is... part time! Anyone expecting to make a living at a part-time job is... well, a maroon. As has been pointed out, P/Ters at UPS make one of the best wages for the time worked anywhere. Especially when you factor in the benefits.

"Economic Holocaust": I'm not Jewish, but if I were I have a suspicion that the way this word is being thrown around so haphazardly would bother me a bit. You say that FedEx pays their P/Ters better at the start, and I have no reason not to believe that. That's good. That doesn't mean though that UPS is exploiting or victimizing theirs.

P/Ters are not paid well enough for the work that they do: I have a big problem with this point of view. To be fair, I don't hear this complaint (or many of the other complaints I read about here) at my facility. I find it hard to believe that after going through orientation where they tell you that these are physically demanding production oriented jobs and tell you exactly how much money you will make and explain your benefits to you... after working your 30 days (in my building almost all new-hires spend these days in the Unload) and seeing and feeling first-hand how hard the work is, that months or years down the road you are suddenly surprised that the work is so hard!

Basically, I find the arguments that P/Ters are underpaid and exploited without merit. No one that works for UPS was drafted into it. No one is under any obligation to remain employed there. No one should be expected to have to deal with any true harrassment or disrespectful behavior either as far as that goes. In that case I would fully recommend that one should go through their Shop Steward to get that situation corrected.

Whoa... quite a rant for a first posting.

(Message edited by lcarroll on August 28, 2002)
 
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upsdawg

Guest
Welcome lcarrol!! Way to jump in with both feet!!

I agree with everything you are saying------unless we have some people that show up for orientation with blindfolders on---we all know up front that the job is demanding, but we accept that because of the pay and benefits.

I knew when I got hired on as a driver , that it would be hot in the summer time in those Brown trucks and brown uniforms and I was going to have to work in the rain.

How is it that some find it their role in life to change a company to meet their personal needs rather than change to make the company a better, more profitable (for everyone!) company to secure their future?

When I started with UPS in 1972 I remember making pick ups and the UPS stack was 1 or 2 packages and REA(Railway Express Agency) had a stack of 20-50.....than before you know it UPS had the whole stack and REA went belly up!!!I am wondering if the RPS/Fed-x drivers feel that way---and now their stack is getting larger and UPS is losing a ton of volume to other carriers---and in the mean time we have people wanting to complain about working conditions--too many hours--not enough time off ..........just wait until we are forced to increase our rates in Jan 2003 to cover the additional costs we have to incur as a company---how many more customers will we lose--how many customers do we have to lose before we change our
thought process and do everything we can to reduce cost and provide the best service to our customers?

I am inspired after reading your post Mr Carroll and am hoping that you are the answer to UPS's future !! Thanks for the Post and welcome aboard!
 
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saintteamo

Guest
icarrol, thank yoy for your thoughfull response. However because you havebeen at ups for so short a time you dont know what it was like before the1982 wage reduction and twenty years of economic holocaust. UPs used to pay fair wages for the extremely hard work it demanded,but paid fairly accordingly. THe pre 1982 hires which currently make over $ vc22.50 perhour could afford from the part time work at ups alone to pay for: College tuition, books,a room at a share house with other students,food,clothinf etc and a used car. Now the new hiresw for $14.50 less per hour cantafford the same. Some that are not living aT home with mommyand daddy arfe even living in homeless shelters. It's a national disgrace. When ups reduced the wages in 82 they had just enjoyed the previos two years of incresing netprofits by 400% and the volume of busines had doubled.

JUst because ups informs a naive young high school student duringorientation that it is a demanding jiob doesnt justify such exploitaTION. uPS CAN PAY FAIR WAGES AND CAN HAVE SAFE CONDITIONS THAT WOULD BRING IT TO WITHIN NATIONAL INDUSTRY AVERAGES FOR INJURIES'.OOPS JUST LOCKED THE CAPS ..

UPs though it has some minor competition that is just nipping at the heals enjoys va near monopoloy in the small parcel business. Further it's vast economy oif Scale advantasge makes it almost impossible for anyone to effectively compete.

Ups crys that The Teamsters have failed to organize fede4x ,so it justifies part time povertywages. However how can we convince a fed ex part timer to go union when thier union rival pays 4 per hr less to start. Also fed ex treats vthier employees much better than ups. A fedex part timer only liftd less than 30% the wqeight per hr as at ups. They have far fewer industrial injuries etc. n

AT leasst you do seem to acknowlege that UPS pt's deserve better wages. When compared to fed ex or most any pt job uin America the pt's perform 8 to 12 houeres of reasonable productivity in less than for hours for less than two hrs fir pay. If thats not exploitaYyion what is. Ups mgrs argue that if they think its a fair wage then who is hurt. Well firs society is hurt because rather thanj the short term disposable typesd now hired ups if it paid fair wages again would once again be providing jobs that could put inter city and other disavantaged and needy young persons through collegeTHe Black Thursdays comi9tte gives ups great credit for providing excellent service. Also for the positive contribution to our great countries economic foundation by pauyinfg excellent pay etc to drivers. But as said before the post 1982 and twenty years and now plannedfor anotrher six years of part time pocerty needs to be reformed. If it wasnt for the 82 wage reduction and following twenty years of whatecer you prefer to call it a pt supoervisor like yourself would make about $2,000 plus per monthy. Would you prefer that to your ciu7rrent wage. remember that when ups top mgmt two tierd part time hourly they also reduced the wages for pt mgmt. Its a top down greed machine.

You are right that as a new pt supervisor ,that you have not been yet subjected to complete training and brainwashing etc. Please respond to what you agree and disagree with what I( post. Please try to keep an open mind free from ups propaGAnda etc best regard,the saint
 
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thedrooler

Guest
carrol

Do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor and ignore the demented rantings of "tHe saI nT". You will be better off.

Drooler
 
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wkmac

Guest
Drooler,
You're Wrong! M is not for mutant but for maroon!;)

SaintZero,
If I understood a much earlier post, you stated you were hired prior to 1982' and worked for the company for 8 years. This would indicate that you've been gone for at least 10 years so why not come up with something better to do with your time?

When I leave UPS in few more years I'll be damn if I'll worry myself about UPS and the so-called evil managers. Also UPS is a cake walk now compared to what it was 10 and 15 years ago. With all of society's whining and PC nonsense about hard demanding work UPS has changed in a very dramatic way. Sorriness is now tolerated instead of eliminated. Example:5 month employee with 34 lates and 3 no calls. Time to flush the toilet several months ago IMO.

Years ago my job had it's demands but I had supervisors who knew their stuff. These days I've got supervisors who have not kept up with technology and therefore have no clue as to making decisions so the duty falls to myself and my other co-worker I work with. The situation has forced me to wear numerous hats and our supervisor is a glorified accountant. Given the choice I'd rather have the old school anyday of the week because those "old hardcases" knew their stuff and we're more involved. Just goes to show there is always good with what is perchieved as bad!

BTW:When is UPS going to advertise itself as a weight loss program that pays a wage and benefits. At our location we've had several folks rather overweight who came to work and lost not only the weight but they admitted they gained self-esteem because the job got them off the couch and they achieved goals including the weight loss. So what some see as a harsh environoment others see as a challenge. Just goes to show why some see Mt. Everest climbers as idiots or fools and others see them as heros and adventurers. I'm of the hero/adventurer group.
 
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smf0605

Guest
wkmac: BTW:When is UPS going to advertise itself as a weight loss program that pays a wage and benefits?

In our district our HR recruiters have done a fine job on local cable of promoting the "workout at work" idea.
 
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upsdawg

Guest
Saint--Teamo--I believe that you have a distorted view of life.If you are going to offer up a comparison between UPS employee wages and Fed x please do a side by side comparison. Do the p/t and friend/t employees at FED ex get automatic health benefits and pension benefits ( actually it is unheard of to offer p/t peole a pension option!) at no additional cost? To help you out--the answer is not only no--but HELL NO!! If Fed ex had to pay the union $800 a month per employee what would they be paying their employees? But since they don't have to pay the money up front to the union they have a ton of dough to increase their employee wages---interesting concept don't you think?? So please if you are going to compare---please don't distort the truth!
 
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tieguy

Guest
Kim alias SaintTeamo is everything she supposedly fights. She is a member of the financially elite living in a ski lodge in northern california. She has been caught in hundreds of lies on the teamster net board. She is a scam artist who pushed her overpriced T-shirts claiming the proceeds would be used for the generation of bumper stickers. To this point this fictitous organization has not been able to account for a single penny of the proceeds. She is a fanatical nazi who believes her war against ups management should include harrassing the managers spouse, kids and neighbors. As I have seen her posts on teamster net over the years it is clear that Kim represents everything that she claims to fight, she has no integrity , no morals and is as evil as anything this world has ever seen. If she actually goes to church then the holy water must boil when she does.
 
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saintteamo

Guest
upssup aka tieguy, Falsly accuse me of many things even though honest posters on Teamster net ups forum back me and point out that he is lying and distorts everything for ups gain as he percieves that to be.He is a detriment to ups .
 
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robonono

Guest
OK folks, I'm going to just repeat something said earlier about saintteamo.

JUST IGNORE HER/HIM!

Don't let the rantings, ravings, and innuendo of this person get to you. After all,
SAINTTEAMO is an anagram for AIN'T SO, TEAM.
 
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