At my building, the lead union steward and other dmp people got fancy jackets for taking care of leakers, they were from the catalog. I was told the reason for doing it was because we've had lots of supes working and the Preload manager didn't want to face the Labor Manager in the building. The manager has to explain to the labor guy why supes are working and why they have to pay someone now. So they gave people jackets.
Bribed Union officials?
- Thread starter Local20
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Unbreakable
Member
I remember when I filed a greivance over supervisors working. In a meeting to "resolve the issue" the sort manager pulled a contract out of his desk. He held it up and said, "See this? I've never opened it. I don't care what's in here. I do what I think is right and I run the hub the way I want to." The lead steward sat there staring at the wall, and said nothing. And that was before they had totally sold out!
The steward does not have to say anything in that meeting. Having dealt with that manager more then you have he may have known the words would be wasted. The real question is what did he do with the grievance after the hub manager denied it. Did he bump it up to the next step or did he squash it?
I disagree. To say something like that is a slap in the face. It is also typical of the mentality in the hub. None of the rules apply, unless it benefits managment. BTW, I told the sort manager that I didn't agree with everything in the contract either, but that it was a legal document agreed to by both sides, and neither one of us could pick and choose which parts of it we would ignore or follow.
The grievance? The steward convinced me to drop it. "You don't have a good case, they will come after you, be happy with your good job, etc., etc." A supervisor later told me that the sort manager instructed the sups to work more because we had to learn "who runs the hub."
UPS owns Local 20. End of story. The stewards were never very good, but if you could argue your own case they would at least agree with you on contact issues. Over the last five to seven years the sell out has become complete. Now they talk for mngmt.
thats an interesting twist to a grievance or disciplinary process that i have not heard until recently. I know when I pull someone in the office I will review the reason with the steward and allow him to talk to the person first as a professional courtesy to the steward. If you think about it doing so it actually gives the steward the advantage of reviewing the information with you so you are not surprised when you walk in. This gives you more time to get your thoughts together and be able to give a credible explanation. I never thought anyone would take that courtesy and use it to make the steward look bad. In fact you should view it as a benifit of having a strong steward.
I think that you misunderstand the situation. First of all, the usual scenario is that you walk into the office and find the steward and the manager there, or they both walk up to you. There is no little meeting to explain the situation and come up with a defense. Even in the case that you describe, if you want to discipline someone you should do the talking, not sit there and have the steward do it for you.
I am talking about giving a legitimate defense using the contract and having the steward jump in and give a rebuttal, sometimes even telling an outright lie. Most often he just ignores any evidence which would contradict management.
Almost all of the workers in the hub try to "fly under the radar" because anyone who spoke out, or heaven forbid, tried to enforce the contract was made a target for harassment. (Over and above the usual harrassment.) Now we have some new stewards that are trying to make changes. The local leadership has done everything they can to maintain the status quo and have been pretty effective in blocking the new stewards.
New stewards tend to come in like a bull in a china closet until they learn how to do their job.
How should they do their job, and what changes do they make when they learn how to do their job?
Toledo, Ohio is a town in which people were killed in the early days of the labor movement. Men were killed trying to form unions and gain the rights that we benefit from. Local 20 is pathetic. I really hope it isn't this way all over the country.
then build a consensus and vote the guys out if you don't think you are getting what you paid for.
The rules seem to be rigged to stop that from happening. Management knows it, too. I had a manager tell me, "Hey, the union is a democracy. You can always vote them out." This was said with a smirk.
tieguy
Banned
That management person does not run your union. If you really believe your leadership is screwed up and you have enough co-workers that believe the same then you can make changes. Step up and build a consensus.
The Toledo hub processes a lot of volume, and QVC, Spiegel, Victoria Secret were major shippers. That it itself with the smalls volume increases the pieces per hour in that hub.
Have you ever given any consideration, that the stewards have grievances scheduled to hear with the company? I have seen stewards taken out of the operation for their shift for this reason alone. It may look like they are not doing anything, but supervisors are not scheduled to work their shifts, and if that steward was not available, an alternate would be used.
UPS has better ways to spend and save money, than to "bribe" stewards, not to mention ethical issues.
You may want to ask the steward what the deal is, if you feel you are not represented properly by Local 20.
Have you ever given any consideration, that the stewards have grievances scheduled to hear with the company? I have seen stewards taken out of the operation for their shift for this reason alone. It may look like they are not doing anything, but supervisors are not scheduled to work their shifts, and if that steward was not available, an alternate would be used.
UPS has better ways to spend and save money, than to "bribe" stewards, not to mention ethical issues.
You may want to ask the steward what the deal is, if you feel you are not represented properly by Local 20.
Inside stewards have not worked for years! Twilight shift "lead" stewards haven't performed any work in 3 or 4 years. That is a fact! It's not an stretch when we say they sit in a office and B.S. all night long. Or they sit in a brown package car watching multiple supervisor's work. The Midnight steward probably hasn't worked in 15 plus years. Day sort lead steward probably the same. Far as the grievance hearings. We have so few, they probably happen once every 6 to 8 weeks. Because the stewards make the grievances go away. All except for the discharge ones. They don't have choice on those.
Hopeless situation for the members. Yes, we do get a lot of smalls, and I'm sure they do contribute to the numbers.
Hopeless situation for the members. Yes, we do get a lot of smalls, and I'm sure they do contribute to the numbers.
Unbreakable
Member
Originally Posted by Unbreakable
How should they do their job, and what changes do they make when they learn how to do their job?
I think I can answer this question and answer most of your post.
The steward should:
Keep a professional relationship. Grandstanding , yelling , screaming makes the steward look like a tough guy in front of his peers but does not accomplish anything. >>>>>>>>>>>..
UNbreakable: I would agree with this. But I can't recall ever seeing one of our stewards even raising his voice with management. On the other hand, some managers and sups in our hub do try to be "tough guys." Two have even made a motion as if they were going to punch an employee, several have threatened employees. It is they who are most often unprofessional. As for myself, I will take it to any level they want, and I think they know that. I think they are schmucks for being "tough guys" with young kids.
I've seen a lot of stewards over the years. The ones that spoke quietly won a lot more battles then the ones that threw hissy fits. The good steward will also understand the pschycology of the management person he/she is dealing with. He may have better luck talking to that management person one on one later then with you sitting there.
Why is that? What changes after an hourly leaves the room? The "understand the psychology of the management person" statement is strange, as well. You actually make your fellow managers look bad. As if they were small children or mentally unstable and one must handle them in a special way.
Research , learn not only the contract but learn to understand the issues that come up and how to address them. Don't fly off half cocked. Know the answer before you ask the question.
This is "Law 101." Basic stuff. What examples of issues have you encountered that need to be addressed outside of the contract?
A good Steward can resolve and diffuse issues before they become major issues.
Once again, basic stuff.
A good steward also has to represent the interests of the union. If he believes you have a loser for a case then he should be honest and tell you so. It gets expensive chasing a lot of losers through the panel. Thats money that comes out of your pocket in one way or another. Once he gives you that advice its still your decision to follow it. Should you decide to pursue the case then he is obligated to help you do so.
A good steward will sometimes have to kick your but and tell you that you are wrong. If you go into a meeting for attendance then the steward will not be the guy responsible for making sure you come to work every day on time. He is doing you a disservice if he does not tell you that. He can try to muddy the waters at best but ultimately he has to put your responsibilities as an employee in your lap.
Right, but when you go to a hearing over attendance and you have, say, eight in six, and some of your co workers have far, far more infractions and haven't even received a letter, something is wrong.
The rules seem to be rigged to stop that from happening. Management knows it, too. I had a manager tell me, "Hey, the union is a democracy. You can always vote them out." This was said with a smirk.
That management person does not run your union. If you really believe your leadership is screwed up and you have enough co-workers that believe the same then you can make changes. Step up and build a consensus.
We are trying. One of my liberal co workers once said, "We have to impeach Bush, get rid of Hoffa, and get rid of our Local 20 officials." We all agreed it would be easier to get rid of Bush than get rid of Hoffa or our local 20 leaders.
How should they do their job, and what changes do they make when they learn how to do their job?
I think I can answer this question and answer most of your post.
The steward should:
Keep a professional relationship. Grandstanding , yelling , screaming makes the steward look like a tough guy in front of his peers but does not accomplish anything. >>>>>>>>>>>..
UNbreakable: I would agree with this. But I can't recall ever seeing one of our stewards even raising his voice with management. On the other hand, some managers and sups in our hub do try to be "tough guys." Two have even made a motion as if they were going to punch an employee, several have threatened employees. It is they who are most often unprofessional. As for myself, I will take it to any level they want, and I think they know that. I think they are schmucks for being "tough guys" with young kids.
I've seen a lot of stewards over the years. The ones that spoke quietly won a lot more battles then the ones that threw hissy fits. The good steward will also understand the pschycology of the management person he/she is dealing with. He may have better luck talking to that management person one on one later then with you sitting there.
Why is that? What changes after an hourly leaves the room? The "understand the psychology of the management person" statement is strange, as well. You actually make your fellow managers look bad. As if they were small children or mentally unstable and one must handle them in a special way.
Research , learn not only the contract but learn to understand the issues that come up and how to address them. Don't fly off half cocked. Know the answer before you ask the question.
This is "Law 101." Basic stuff. What examples of issues have you encountered that need to be addressed outside of the contract?
A good Steward can resolve and diffuse issues before they become major issues.
Once again, basic stuff.
A good steward also has to represent the interests of the union. If he believes you have a loser for a case then he should be honest and tell you so. It gets expensive chasing a lot of losers through the panel. Thats money that comes out of your pocket in one way or another. Once he gives you that advice its still your decision to follow it. Should you decide to pursue the case then he is obligated to help you do so.
A good steward will sometimes have to kick your but and tell you that you are wrong. If you go into a meeting for attendance then the steward will not be the guy responsible for making sure you come to work every day on time. He is doing you a disservice if he does not tell you that. He can try to muddy the waters at best but ultimately he has to put your responsibilities as an employee in your lap.
Right, but when you go to a hearing over attendance and you have, say, eight in six, and some of your co workers have far, far more infractions and haven't even received a letter, something is wrong.
The rules seem to be rigged to stop that from happening. Management knows it, too. I had a manager tell me, "Hey, the union is a democracy. You can always vote them out." This was said with a smirk.
That management person does not run your union. If you really believe your leadership is screwed up and you have enough co-workers that believe the same then you can make changes. Step up and build a consensus.
We are trying. One of my liberal co workers once said, "We have to impeach Bush, get rid of Hoffa, and get rid of our Local 20 officials." We all agreed it would be easier to get rid of Bush than get rid of Hoffa or our local 20 leaders.
Unbreakable
Member
UPS has better ways to spend and save money, than to "bribe" stewards, not to mention ethical issues.
My experience with UPS managent is that, with few exceptions, "ethical issues" don't seem to be a consideration.
You may want to ask the steward what the deal is, if you feel you are not represented properly by Local 20.
You come off as being naieve. Have you ever worked for UPS? I see you are a "moderator." What qualifications does one need to have that position?
My experience with UPS managent is that, with few exceptions, "ethical issues" don't seem to be a consideration.
You may want to ask the steward what the deal is, if you feel you are not represented properly by Local 20.
You come off as being naieve. Have you ever worked for UPS? I see you are a "moderator." What qualifications does one need to have that position?
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
Local20, You make this second part sound like a bad idea and unethical. I know one of the hubs I worked at tried to do something similar, but couldn't get it working properly. If we can find and error and fix it, then that's a good thing for both UPS and the customer. For the customer, we get the pkg into the right trailer and get the pkg delivered on time. For UPS, we get the improved service, we also get to save on GSR. We also have quicker feedback to the pickoff\loader who made this error. The quicker the feedback, the better chance that we can stop this error from reoccurring. Or at least reduce the amount of future misloads. If the hub can do this, that's a great idea.
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