Bush and America win in Iraq

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by av8torntn, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    The Thrill Of Victory

    Friday, November 28, 2008 4:20 PM PT

    Iraq: Nineteen months after Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid declared the war "lost," a freely elected Iraqi Parliament signs a security pact with the United States. We won. It is the terrorists and their appeasers who lost.

    While Americans sat down for Thanksgiving dinner deciding what they were thankful for, the Iraqi parliament Thursday passed an agreement with the U.S. that set a date certain for American withdrawal, as war critics wanted. But it was based on conditions on the ground, as the Bush administration insisted.

    The conditions on the ground are that the jihadists are a spent force that lost the war as well as the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Province after province has been returned to Iraqi control, and the young Iraqi nation appears both willing and able to defend itself.

    Under the terms of the agreement, U.S. forces will withdraw from Iraqi towns and cities by June 30, 2009, and the entire country by Jan. 1, 2012. The deal could still be rejected by the Iraqi people in a referendum scheduled for July 30, a key Sunni demand to get their agreement, but by then U.S. troops will no longer be a visible presence in urban areas.

    "This is a historic day for the great Iraqi people," Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said in a 10-minute address on national television. "We have achieved one of its most important achievements in approving the agreement on the withdrawal of foreign forces from Iraq and restoring the sovereignty it lost two decades ago," al-Maliki said, referring to the imposition of sanctions after Operation Desert Storm liberated Kuwait from Saddam Hussein.

    "Two years ago, this day seemed unlikely," Bush said in a statement from his retreat at Camp David, Md. "But the success of the surge and the courage of the Iraqi people set the conditions for these two agreements to be negotiated and approved by the Iraqi parliament."

    The pact is divided into two agreements governing security, economics, culture and other areas of cooperation.

    The pact comes after a report on Iraq's progress that retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey, now an adjunct professor of International Affairs at the United States Military Academy at West Point, compiled for his colleagues.

    The report concludes: "The United States is now clearly in the end game in Iraq to successfully achieve what should be our principle objectives: the withdrawal of the majority of U.S. ground combat forces . . . in the coming 36 months; leaving behind an operative civil state and effective Iraqi security forces; an Iraqi state which is not in open civil war among the Shia, the Sunnis, and the Kurds; and an Iraqi nation which is not at war with its six neighboring states."

    Provisional elections are scheduled for January, district elections for midyear and national elections sometime next December. Of al-Maliki, who, like President Bush, may have been "misunderestimated," McCaffrey says he "clearly has matured and gained stature as a political leader since he assumed his very dangerous and complex leadership responsibilities."

    The surge of Gen. David Petraeus, now commander of CENTCOM, took that country from a chaos beyond imagination to a functioning democracy where children walk to school safely, civilians stroll past stocked businesses and old men sit at cafes talking about politics.

    Defense Secretary Robert Gates, thankfully kept on by President-elect Obama, presided at Petraeus' retirement ceremony in Baghdad, and told the story of the best command decision a commander in chief has made since Lincoln sacked McClellan, put Grant in charge, and pointed Sherman in the direction of Atlanta.
    After Petraeus took charge, Gates noted, "Slowly, but inexorably, the tide began to turn, our enemies took a fearsome beating they will not soon forget. Fortified by our own people and renewed commitment, the soldiers of Iraq found new courage and confidence. And the people of Iraq, resilient and emboldened, rose up to take back their country."

    And now Johnny will soon come marching home. We love the smell of victory in the morning.
  2. chev

    chev Nightcrawler

    Now this is certainly great news. But get ready for the naysayers. They are sure to follow. :wink2:
  3. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Well that will certainly kill the political careers of several Democratic "leaders ", remember . They { who have no military knowledge } said that the war was lost. That defeat was the only answer. Elect us & we will withdrawl our troops, yet they did not. In fact they did nothing, as the poll numbers have showed, due to their inaction were lower than Bush's .
    And people think they & their party of fools can turn this economy around ?
  4. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Did you know…?
    that 47 countries' have
    reestablished their embassies in Iraq ?

    Did you know…
    that the Iraqi government
    currently employs 1.2 million Iraqi people?
    263 new schools are now under construction;
    and 38 new schools have been completed in </SPAN>
    Iraq ?

    Did you know

    Iraq 's higher educational structure consists
    of 20 Universities, 46 Institutes or colleges and 4 research centers,
    all currently operating?

    Did you know

    that 25
    Iraq students departed for the United States in
    January 2005 for the re-established Fulbright program?

    Did you know

    that the Iraqi Navy is operational?
    They have 5 - 100-foot patrol craft,
    34 smaller vessels and a naval infantry regiment.

    Did you know

    Iraq ' s Air Force consists of three operational squadrons,
    Which includes 9 reconnaissance and 3 US C-130 transport aircraft

    (under Iraqi operational control) which operate day and night,
    and will soon add 16 UH-1 helicopters and 4 Bell Jet Rangers?

    Did you know

    Iraq has a counter-terrorist unit and a Commando Battalion?

    Did you know

    that the Iraqi Police Service has over 55,000
    fully trained and equipped police officers?

    Did you know

    that there are 5 Police Academies in
    that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks?

    Did you know

    there are more than 1100 building projects going on in
    Iraq ?
    They include 364 sch ools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals,
    83 railroad stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities
    and 69 electrical facilities.

    Did you know

    that 96% of Iraqi children under the age of 5
    have received the first 2 series of polio vaccinations?

    Did you know

    that 4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by mid

    Did you know

    that there are 1,192,000 cell phone subscribers in20
    and phone use has gone up 158%?

    Did you know

    Iraq has an independent media that consists of
    75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations?

    Did you know

    that the Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of 2004?

    Did you know

    that 2 candidates in the Iraqi presidential election had a
    televised debate recently?




    Instead of reflecting our love for our country,
    we get photos of flag burning incidents at Abu Ghraib
    and people throwing snowballs at the presidential motorcades.

    Tragically, the lack of accentuating the positive
    Iraq serves two purposes:

    It is intended to undermine the world's perception
    of the
    United States thus minimizing consequent support;
    and it is intended to discourage American citizens.


    Above facts are verifiable on the Department of Defense web site.


    Did you know?

    Why I didn't know

    But I know now.....

  5. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    I didn't know . THANK YOU that is wonderful news { unlike the garbage our media spreads }
  6. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

    Question? How many repetitive false claims by the right as to Iraq being the home of the terrorists that attacked us does it take to convince a Bush Conservative sympathizer.

    Lets not go down that road again....Another Republican myth.....
  7. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    Answer: What????? What in the article is your reference for this claim?

    Question: Why do the liberals have the desire to fabricate what people say to try and validate their idealism?
  8. Sammie

    Sammie Well-Known Member

  9. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    I'm not sure why you continue to try to maintain a state of denial after all this time. Attached a link on Zarqwai's death. Zarqawi was clearly the Al-qhaida leader of Iraq and set up shop in Iraq after US forces drove him out of Afghanistan.

    It is also know that Hussien allowed a terrorst camp the right to set up a training camp in northern Iraq where they were allowed to practice their heinous techniques on the poor kurds.


    and a quote from the article:

    "Once the Taliban had been defeated by the 2001 US invasion of Afghanistan, Zarqawi returned to the Middle East and set up in Iraq.
    In the past year, he moved his campaign beyond Iraq's borders, claiming to have carried out the triple suicide bombing of hotels in Amman that killed 60 people last November. He also claimed to have carried out other attacks in Jordan and a rocket attack from Lebanon into northern Israel."
  10. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Have you been following the news out of Algiers ?
    Those really nice terrorists have come down with an outbreak of the Black Death. It seems that they were making the bugs to be used as a weapon, unfortunately they infected themselves. And they have dismantled those sites and spread the bugs into other camps.

    Before you claim " right wing " yada yada, check out the source, A british paper.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2009
  11. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    KARMA !! :happy-very:
  12. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

  13. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

  14. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    From Council on Foreign Relations website concerning AQI


    and there's this


    AQI leader exposed as sham and a fiction



    AQI numbers

    from the Naval Postgraduate School: https://web.archive.org/web/2009102...ics/TerroristProfile/Current/AlQaidaIraq.html

    How many make up the number of insurgency?

    From a 2005' study


    Number of Insurgents detained or killed from May 03' to Nov. 06' see page 16 at the link


    Estimated strength of insurgency in Iraq from Nov. 03' to Oct. 06' see page 17 at above link. See page 18 for estimates of number of foreign fighters in insurgency.

    And finally there is this for President Obama to concern himself with and it suggests not all is well in the land of 2 Rivers.


    There are troubling signs underneath the surface that don't bode well longterm for Iraq. And this is why I think Obama will not be able to depart Iraq and he knows this. Now he will face a strong test as he must face the antiwar democrats who really expected real change where none will come!
  15. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    News items related to the subject matter.










    This is just looking across the news for one day as it relates to the subject matter in varying degrees. From a certain POV Iraq maybe shows promise but IMO I'd not call it a win just yet even accepting that POV. They have a long way to go and a long history that suggests being very guarded with such polly anna optimism as to declare the issue a win.

  16. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll


    you posted this
    Its a shame that 6 years later, you have seemed to miss the bus on IRAQI intelligence (post invasion).

    Lets begin with this GEM:"The decline of Al Qaeda in Iraq (DUE TO PRESIDENT BUSH) will most definitely change the plans of the jihadists in the Middle East"

    Somehow, you "generalize" the term jihadists as if they are all one in the same. JIHADISTS is not a group. Its a religious term. When a muslim faction declares a jihad, its has a religious implication, not an affiliation with a certain people.

    This is the problem with right wing propaganda. Those dumb enough to get their news from FAUX news or any right wing talk show wacko believes that a JIHADIST is a group. Sort of like when BUSHED starting using the term "ISLAMO FASCIST" until he was scolded by the SAUDI's and told NOT to use it again, and it quickly disappeared.

    Where were the Al qaeda training camps in IRAQ? THis myth has already been debunked by the congress and every investigative outfit in the states. You were sold a story about al qaeda cause its was an easy sell for people who are NOT intelligent enough to do some homework.

    Since we invaded Al Qaeda, they have grown over 10 times larger around the world. They have not been affected in numbers, financing or leadership in the 6 years weve been in IRAQ. ANYONE who claims otherwise is an un-informed boob.

    Its a fact, Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda had NO TIES, NO AGREEMENTS and NO TRAINING camps in IRAQ.

    Now, just because our president and his guides told us they did, that did not make it true.

    This next statement is the biggest joke: And, the Iraqi now have more things than they have ever had to enjoy in life."

    Man, you guys are still in lala land. How about some iraqi communities have not had electricity in 5 years? How about they have to be rationed power for 2 hours a day? How about the lack of fresh water? Again, rationing to cities and towns. How about the 90% unemployment rate currently in IRAQ? I know, were fixing that by making them all policemen.

    How about the destruction of all their cities and infrastructure? NO safe roads, no markets stocked with goods like they had before the war.

    How about the fact they all live in total fear now that we unleashed the horror of sectarian violence upon their country because we had NO idea what would happen once we destroyed the goverment?

    Dont be an idiot.

    You will NEVER, EVER, EVER get the truth from HANNITY, RUSH, LAURA INGRAHAM, JASON LEWIS or BILL ORIELLY. You will get a distorted, blurred and false picture of reality in IRAQ.

    As I have said many times before, If you truly believe that taking out training grounds for YOUNG RADICALS and JIHADISTS, then you need to begin with SAUDI ARABIA.

    This is where the majority of the funding for all the religious fundamentalists comes from. As each of the thousands of muslim groups from Egypt to Pakistan call for a "JIHAD" or holy war against the usa, this would mean nothing if it werent for the billions SAUDI ARABIA spends in funding these groups.

    As for your beloved IRAQ war of success, do me a favor, as an american, take a look at the FACTS. Take some time and step out of that right wing loney bin and watch this video. ITs called NO END IN SIGHT. A documentary about the IRAQ war, starring all the players in the war itself.

    Not some made up docu-drama, this is the real deal, the real players. Listen to each of these former BUSHED people talk about the failures in IRAQ. No one in this video is making the claims YOU or AV8 make, and these guys were in charge. Take the time, dont be afraid, it wont hurt you to know the truth.

    Every good american has the right to the truth.
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  17. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    Check out some these articles concerning Al Qaeda and in the case of the Wiki articles, refer to footnotes and external links for in depth background.

    Iraqi Insurgency

    Al Qaeda in the Phillipines

    AQI Iraq Strenght and Activity

    From Rand Corp. Beyond Al Qaeda, The Global Jihadist Movement

    Executive Summary of the above

    Al Qaeda is not something to be ignored by any stretch but I think if you read about the organization from a variety of sources, you get a sense that Al Qaeda specifically in itself may not be all that big but the idea of it is what has grown. Even more dangerous is that what is out there now have fractured into a 1000 pieces and decisions on actions don't involve a central command but rather comes from local leadership. Phillipines being one good example.

    If anything Osama may be more a propoganda figurehead and opportunist than anything else. Even he (not being the mastermind behind 9/11) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/14/AR2007031402102.html has embraced the well worn and used Bush adminstration myth for his own causes but this doesn't mean he serves no purpose that can't be dangerous in the long run.

    AQI IMO was small potatoes in Iraq and in fact was nothing more than small amounts of puss in the larger open wound of sectarian civil war betwen the Shia and Sunni. This region has a long history of millenia of this type of civil/tribal strife and no amount of american effort IMO will ever stop it. As sad as it to say this, Saddam's brutal approach is probably in the end about the only way to make thse people play nice under a single gov't. This is also the reason our gov't have built numerous military installations there including the most massive embassy of any nation on the planet.

    We will not leave Iraq any time soon and President Obama knows this. His only hope at the moment is be successful on the many domestic issues and maybe quieting things with Iran because he knows at some point the antiwar left will backlash against him from his inaction in Iraq and esculation in Afghanistan. If he can win over some moderate Republicans/independents he may offset the negatives on his extreme left and negate their loss of support. He's following the Reagan model exactly and love him or hate him, he's a sharp political cookie!

    As for Iraq, the biggest threat in that whole process IMO were former out of power Baathists who for there own power reasons took up the fight across the entire cross section of various insurgent groups operating in the Iraq theater. Much of the violence even now IMO are these former operatives along with other Sunni Arabs who are in the minority who fear the Shia majority taking over Iraq. Saudi Arabia is also fearful of this and this most likely explains why a larger % of Iraq insurgents are Sunni's from the Arabian pennisula. This in nothing new but in fact a centuries if not mellenia old fight. We just don't know history and therefore suspect to political manipulation by those in power who see a $ to be made out of all this!

  18. Sammie

    Sammie Well-Known Member

  19. Sammie

    Sammie Well-Known Member

    P.S. - I realize that American successes are dished up in the paper all the time, but least we forget,

    Countries Free or Working Towards It,

    Courtesy of the U.S.A.






























    New Guinea







    South Korea




    Saving Their Butts, Whether Some Of You Like It Or Not....
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2009
  20. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Iraq bloodshed rises as US allies defect