Business and 21st Century: UNION not needed

PaidDriveTime?

Active Member
If people werent lazy and did the job to the best of there ability at all times there would be no reason for management threats. Union simply protects the lazy and underqualified and holds the company back. I am in the union and dont like it.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Like others have said I would be all for the elimination of the union because no company should have to put up with a terrible employee. I just do not trust the way the company will be run and employees will be treated if there was no union..

You cant have it both ways.

UPS entered into a labor agreement that spells out what employees may and may not be fired for.

My experience has been that "terrible" employees who are able to keep their jobs do so because their management team failed to properly document a case against them or, more often, were attempting to selectively apply the langauge of the contract against particular employees that they didnt like.

I think you would come to find that, in a non-union UPS, your definition of a "terrible" employee probably wouldnt match up well with the company's definiton, and that the "terrible" label would be applied to just about anyone who was full-scale, or who ever had an inury, or who ever refused to work unsafely or off of the clock.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
You cant have it both ways.

UPS entered into a labor agreement that spells out what employees may and may not be fired for.

My experience has been that "terrible" employees who are able to keep their jobs do so because their management team failed to properly document a case against them or, more often, were attempting to selectively apply the langauge of the contract against particular employees that they didnt like.

I think you would come to find that, in a non-union UPS, your definition of a "terrible" employee probably wouldnt match up well with the company's definiton, and that the "terrible" label would be applied to just about anyone who was full-scale, or who ever had an inury, or who ever refused to work unsafely or off of the clock.
That's pretty much the way it is now, no?
 

grgrcr88

No It's not green grocer!
If people werent lazy and did the job to the best of there ability at all times there would be no reason for management threats. Union simply protects the lazy and underqualified and holds the company back. I am in the union and dont like it.


You can leave whenever you feel like it, no one is forcing you to stay. You probably should not bite the hand that feeds you though!!!


I hear fed-ex is a nice place to work!!!:knockedout:
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
If people werent lazy and did the job to the best of there ability at all times there would be no reason for management threats. Union simply protects the lazy and underqualified and holds the company back. I am in the union and dont like it.

Then why dont you go into management? Or take a job with a non-union company?

Oh, thats right....those jobs have no security, or no seniority, or they dont pay as well. Damn those unions anyway.

And as far as you being in the union and "not liking" it....you arent a victim. You do have a choice. The door is there; try not to let it hit you in the ass on your way out. Walmart, McDonalds and Taco Bell are just a few of the many employers that will offer you a golden opportunity to reap the benefits of a non-union workplace. What are you waiting for?
 

grgrcr88

No It's not green grocer!
That's pretty much the way it is now, no?


If thats the way it is for you it is only because your support for your local union is week, I assure you that if you get 100% active participation in your local union then you will not be treated poorly because the company will know that if one member is mistreated then all members have been mistreated and that they will stand up for one another whenever needed!!!

You want things to get better, GET INVOLVED WITH YOUR LOCAL UNION!!

GO TO MEETINGS, LEARN THE CONTRACT, HAVE BALLS ENOUGH TO STAND UP WHEN WRONGED!!!!!!!!!
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
If thats the way it is for you it is only because your support for your local union is week, I assure you that if you get 100% active participation in your local union then you will not be treated poorly because the company will know that if one member is mistreated then all members have been mistreated and that they will stand up for one another whenever needed!!!

You want things to get better, GET INVOLVED WITH YOUR LOCAL UNION!!

GO TO MEETINGS, LEARN THE CONTRACT, HAVE BALLS ENOUGH TO STAND UP WHEN WRONGED!!!!!!!!!
You greatly misunderstood me :happy-very:
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
I've always thought that without the union UPS could go to an almost completely part time work force. One early shift to handle deliveries, and a late shift to handle pickups. They would probably still have to keep some full time in feeders, but that would be it.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Hellp me out then!!!!!!
Sober said that without a union, management's definition of a "terrible employee" would be just about anyone who was full-scale, or who ever had an inury, or who ever refused to work unsafely or off of the clock.

I was only half joking when I suggested that that's pretty much their definition anyway. We've got a pretty strong local in these parts.
 

grgrcr88

No It's not green grocer!
Good, Thanks for the clarification.

I am a steward at local 795, sometimes i think we stewards care more about the hourly then they do for themselves!!

It pisses me off to no end to hear someone bad mouth the union!!
 

40 and out

Well-Known Member
If people werent lazy and did the job to the best of there ability at all times there would be no reason for management threats. Union simply protects the lazy and underqualified and holds the company back. I am in the union and dont like it.
I don't know how it is where you are,but there are no lazy people holding the company back in my center and there is still plenty of management threats.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
All this is theoretical of course:

If there was no union, fulltime union employees would be making 1/3 less per hour.
They would be paying over $1000 a year or more for their medical benefits.
Their pensions would be at least twice what it is now.
Their work environment would be better. Look at the difference in how non-union versus union employees are treated.
I think the job security would be about the same except "problem" employees. It is much easier to fire a union employee than it is a non-union employee.

Productivity per fulltime employee would go down so there would be more buildings, more package cars, more feeder drivers to feed the centers and more package drivers.
Not sure if the reduction in cost in wages would offset the increase in capital investments and additional employees.
 

jimstud

Banned
Good, Thanks for the clarification.

I am a steward at local 795, sometimes i think we stewards care more about the hourly then they do for themselves!!

It pisses me off to no end to hear someone bad mouth the union!!
i think that most of us stewards feel the same way. and as far as the lazy worker thing goes i would say that 95% of my building goes out and busts his/her ass everyday and still there is harassment , intimidation and anything else that management can think of to drive you nuts.
 

outamyway

Well-Known Member
Then why dont you go into management? Or take a job with a non-union company?

Oh, thats right....those jobs have no security, or no seniority, or they dont pay as well. Damn those unions anyway.

And as far as you being in the union and "not liking" it....you arent a victim. You do have a choice. The door is there; try not to let it hit you in the ass on your way out. Walmart, McDonalds and Taco Bell are just a few of the many employers that will offer you a golden opportunity to reap the benefits of a non-union workplace. What are you waiting for?

UPS's part time pay today does not pay well if you look back 30 years ago. A 60% difference in job worth is a huge difference. $8/hr in 1980 was worth ~$20/hr in todays money. Granted the jobs are a little bit easier to learn with PAS, once it's learned, the jobs are the same.

The national minimum wage is catching up fast. In some states it's already beyond the starting rate for part timers laid on in the master agreement. With health care now a year away, it makes the job worth that much less. It's good to see UPS and the union has taken great care in the interest of full time workers, but in the process they have neutered the worth of biggest percentage of the work force (I am in no way saying a full timers job is worthless or that they make too much. I have done it and I know what they put up with everyday).
 

outamyway

Well-Known Member
If people werent lazy and did the job to the best of there ability at all times there would be no reason for management threats. Union simply protects the lazy and underqualified and holds the company back. I am in the union and dont like it.

The union mentality can certainly promote this kind of work ethic, but not everyone in the union is like that. I do know a couple like that in my building though.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
UPS's part time pay today does not pay well if you look back 30 years ago. A 60% difference in job worth is a huge difference. $8/hr in 1980 was worth ~$20/hr in todays money. Granted the jobs are a little bit easier to learn with PAS, once it's learned, the jobs are the same.
Job description is the same but productivity is down and a larger number of p/t sups to help with the training, etc.
 
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