Can You be Disciplined Or Terminated For Self-Incrimination?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by anonymous6, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    Drivers punch in everything into their boards or IVIS. Can you be disciplined or terminated from the info you punch in yourself? Can this technology be used against you ?

    that would be a violation of your 5th Amendment right, wouldn't it.
     
  2. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    Anything you enter can be used, same as on paper, but you piqued my interest with this question.
     
  3. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    Mine too---can you give any examples of possible entries which could be used against us?
     
  4. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    The 5th Amendment to the US constitution reads, in part, that "no person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself."

    Work-related performance or disciplinary issues have absolutely nothing to do with criminal issues where the State is charging and prosecuting an individual for a crime.
     
  5. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    We had an employee terminated a few years back for falsifying his odometer entries each day by adding 25 miles to his total driven in order to make "bonus".

    A simple audit revealed the fact that, for several weeks, his starting miles every morning were 25 less than his ending miles for the previous day and when questioned he was unable to provide a plausible explanation for the discrepancy.

    It doesnt get much more clear cut than that. He knowingly falsified his odometer entires with the intention of defrauding the company, and those entries were used against him in his termination hearing.
     
  6. Funfact

    Funfact Well-Known Member

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    What information are your worried about coming back to haunt you. If you follow the methods you won't have a problem if you trying to cheat the system some how you deserve what you get...
     
  7. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?


    well, i have made some mistakes. like punch in an hr break instead of meal. the payroll guy caught that one and changed it. when i'm tired i have probably punched in wrong stuff.

    also have forgot to punch in leave and drove quite awhile on TA time... what if you got in amajor accident while still on TA?

    maybe other stuff could be used against you, mistakes or not but we type it all in. in a court of law it should be inadmissable due to the 5th amendment.

    we had a driver fired because of his IVIS but i think it raised the red flag necessary for LP to follow him for a couple nights to actually document stealing time with human eyes.
     
  8. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    i don't have anything to worry about. but in my previous post i do point out a couple mistaken entries in my IVIS.

    also us feeder drivers have a lot of time on our hands to think. I like to think about stuff like that to help 460 miles go by.
     
  9. 104Feeder

    104Feeder Phoenix Feeder

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    LV & TA don't always like to 'take' your input and the screen soon turns dark so it's easy to have the worlds shortest rail turn for example by hitting LV & TA separated by a minute when you get to to your destination. Putting in an hour break is easy to figure out if you have no meal entered later. Bona fide errors shouldn't be a cause for concern but if you make a habit of it expect it to be addressed at some point but probably not actual discipline. Dyslexia showing up on your trailer number entries etc. can also cause issues but if your department is in the process of using pre-dispatch info it's going to be interesting if the finger pointing starts.

    As usual, if you aren't trying to get away with anything or F the Company you don't have anything to worry about.
     
  10. Brother162

    Brother162 New Member

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    The 5th amendment and the incorporation doctrine of the 14th amendment are limited to legal proceedings, and have no authority over UPS termination hearings or center level discussions.

    If you ever ligitimately have to invoke that right due to something you have done at work, you will likely have long been let go. The solution is simple, don't falsify information and don't put yourself in a position where you would have to with hold job threatening information.
     
  11. kingOFchester

    kingOFchester Well-Known Member

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    And some wonder where the label "dumb truck driver" comes from. People like the x-driver mentioned above just make things tougher for most of us.
     
  12. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    ok. let's say you got in a major accident and killed 3 people. on reviewing your time card it was found that you did not take a meal. ( accident happened in 10th hr ).

    but you did take a meal between the 4th-6th hr but punched ina 60 min break by mistake..

    the co. has to pay the family 4 million dollars in damages. ( this actually happened in CA . the driver did not take a meal )
    the co. would probably fire you because you cannot prove that you made a mistake. it's also possible that the driver could be charged with the felony of criminal negligence/ vehicular manslaughter.

    his own info punched into the IVIS would be used against him.

    and don't tell me. "don't make mistakes with your IVIS" our IVIS' screw up more than we do.
     
  13. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    Probably fire you??? killing someone in an accident is a cardinal sin, termination is almost guaranteed!
     
  14. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    We had a guy lose his job for the exact same thing, it just makes you shake your head. Did you really think no one would notice?
     
  15. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest


    in 25 years I have known 2 drivers that killed someone in an accident and they are still working here.
     
  16. Dracula

    Dracula Package Car is cake compared to this...

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    This employee is exhibit A, of crass stupidity, and why bonus is a sham. I'm pro-union and I think this clown should go. But this is why bonus encourages falsifications. And UPS can and will change their numbers to suit their own purposes.

    For drivers who run through their days and take shortcuts and worry about UPS's stupid effing numbers, go to work at Fed-Ex...clowns like you make it harder for all of us who follow the methods and get harassment because we are an hour or two over everyday.
     
  17. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Re: Can You be Disciplined Or Termianted For Self-Incrimination?

    This may surprise you but it is possible to follow the methods and run scratch (or better).
     
  18. stink219

    stink219 Well-Known Member

    This is untrue. Killing someone in an accident is not a cardinal sin. It has to be proven negligence.
     
  19. stink219

    stink219 Well-Known Member

    8. No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty (defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she intends to defraud the Company). The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not be changed because of the use of GPS. So it depends if it was a mistake or if you were trying to screw them over.
     
  20. twoweeled

    twoweeled Active Member

    I've been screaming about this since the start. With the new language, we are so SCREWED!!! Direct answer, if you punched it, your responsible for it. I'm addressing the being observed by managment. Now, it's being observed by management, "or other corroborating evidence". "other corroborating evidence" can be anything. The international just handed them the golden key to our butts! They may even install some other device in pkg cars and tractors, and that will corroborate anything on the IVIS! It could be any one of millions of cameras that are virtually everywhere now! I can't believe what's happening.