casual had his car searched

[bubsdad]

Why do you all jump to so many legal conclusions??

The company CAN NEVER search a vehicle or your person. They must hand that jurisdiction over the the local law enforcement agency.

In addition, they must PROVE first, that the person(s) has a piece of UPS property, in fact, they must have an EYE witness proof from the location of the theft all the way to the car before the POLICE can search anything.

There has to be a legal premise to authorize a search. Even if the cigarettes were found in his car, there would be no BASIS for charging him with anything.

Do you think for a moment that the manufacturer made more than ONE pack of cigarettes in order to make some profit??

Who's to say he didnt buy them someplace else and its nothing more than a coincedence?

You all want to play junkyard lawyers but none of you have the experience to make those kinds of decisions.

An employee can never be "coerced" into any kind of searches by the company. Whether or not the car is on company property, it makes no difference under the law.

I would sue UPS for violation of privacy and an illegal search. There is nothing in our contract that allows the company to search any part of an employee or property.

Get your facts straight people.

Your Judge Judy impressions are getting old.

Out.

Not saying you're wrong, but aren't you doing the same thing you are criticizing others for. The old people in glass houses throwing stones thing and all...

 

[PobreCarlos]

What I read is that "he let them". Don't see anything illegal about searching a vehicle when the owner/driver grants permission.

Note I'm NOT saying that what happened was RIGHT...merely that, on the basis of what was presented in terms of the search, it's hard to see where anything illegal occurred.

Now if he HADN'T "let them", it might be an entirely different situation.

 

[WestBrown]

Because they cost $7.00 and he would have to work an hour to make enuff money to buy a pack.

 

[upssalesguy]

i'm sure it is the only thing he has stolen.

that makes it ok.

pffft. no need for these people in our organization.

 

[BLACKBOX]

The casuals in our center look pretty scary. I wouldn't doubt if a search of these people cars would turn up a weapon or maybe even a dead body!

 

[NEFARIOUS]

While I am sure UPS had no right to conduct a search of his car I am glad he was fired. Anyone who steals sucks. I hate thieves...

 

[dannyboy]

While management might not have been totally honest with this guy, the search was legal. They asked, he let them. Why is anyones guess. Might have been that they used the threat I listed above. Heard it done many times when they suspect a thief.

Bottom line is that he is gone. We have too many in our system.

d

 

[chopstic]

If he gave them consent to look through his car, then there's no question about it, they may legally look through his car. The big legal question here is whether UPS has the authority to "seize" something that may look suspicious. An officer of the law obviously has that right, but UPS security does not have the same authority. As a citizen you may be afforded the right to reclaim something you know "beyond a reasonable doubt" is your property. But how much evidence did UPS have when they found that pack of cigarrettes, that it was in fact their stolen property? Could there have been reasonable doubt that he legitimately purchased those cigarettes?

Its a good thing this employee was fired. I'm not disputing that at all. But the methods of UPS may be in question here. What do you think?

I think UPS should have contacted the police and let them perform the necessary enforcement (searches, seizures, arrests, etc..). In fact it may even be a crime in that state to have knowledge of a theft and not report it to the proper authorities.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

While management might not have been totally honest with this guy, the search was legal. They asked, he let them. Why is anyones guess. Might have been that they used the threat I listed above. Heard it done many times when they suspect a thief.

Bottom line is that he is gone. We have too many in our system.

d

or any other guys

 

[raceanoncr]

but UPS security does not have the same authority.

Funny, as a side note on that, we had something happen a few yrs ago here (again, notice I said HERE).

It was an issue that 911 should have been called and UPS security was the first to witness. When asked why he DIDN'T call, he responded, "I don't have the authority to call 911". Geez.

 

[mva1985]

Other

They did not have an eye witness, they had a statement from the thief that is even better. Most likely even told the buy where he hid them in his car.

So while they did not have that right, I would suspect the conversation went something like this:

We know you have the cigs out here in your car. We have the right to search your car, and if you refuse, we will call the police. When they get here, they will search your car based on the verbal confession you made to another employee. When they find the cigs in your car, we will press charges and you will be arrested for stealing an interstate shipment. That can be a felony. IF you let us search your car however, and we find the pack, we will ask you to sign a release saying you quit. We will not press charges, but you will lose your job.

Now, facing that, what would you do. Most people when confronted with the fact that the company has the goods, opt to resign instead of being arrested and charged. So I would guess that we only know part of the story.

d

ps, the above quoted section has been used several times here at UPS with the same results. The part timers quit.

As a steward I have heard this a couple of times. You are correct about the "conversation" but they are really blowing smoke the chances of them actually calling the police and pressing charges is slim to none.

 

[mva1985]

I think UPS should have contacted the police and let them perform the necessary enforcement (searches, seizures, arrests, etc..). In fact it may even be a crime in that state to have knowledge of a theft and not report it to the proper authorities.

UPS didn't call the police because they don't want that kind of press!

 

[chopstic]

UPS didn't call the police because they don't want that kind of press!

So you are then saying that it is acceptable to not report a crime when you witness one????

 

[over9five]

Interesting points.

UPS would expect its employees to report theft to UPS.

But UPS would not report theft to the authorities?


Does seem to be a double standard.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

UPS didn't call the police because they don't want that kind of press!

So you are then saying that it is acceptable to not report a crime when you witness one????

I would think this would depend upon the severity of the crime. UPS can handle minor issues in house (and, as stated above, keep it out of the papers), but should defer to the authorities on more serious issues. Why would you bother the police over a stolen pack of cigarettes?

 

[dannyboy]

Actually not.

Several things come into play.

Contrary to what a lot of people think, UPS is not out to ruin lives(although as a crook, you have screwed your own life). But they do not want to continue with employee's that steal. They just dont want to have a 20 year old employee that ends up having a record for the rest of his life. So a lot of times they will let things just slide.

Secondly, it costs money for UPS to prosecute someone in court. Many times it is just not worth th effort. So they dont. They just let the guy quit, and nothing else is done.

d

 

[Channahon]

Why do you all jump to so many legal conclusions??

The company CAN NEVER search a vehicle or your person. They must hand that jurisdiction over the the local law enforcement agency.

In addition, they must PROVE first, that the person(s) has a piece of UPS property, in fact, they must have an EYE witness proof from the location of the theft all the way to the car before the POLICE can search anything.

There has to be a legal premise to authorize a search. Even if the cigarettes were found in his car, there would be no BASIS for charging him with anything.

Do you think for a moment that the manufacturer made more than ONE pack of cigarettes in order to make some profit??

Who's to say he didnt buy them someplace else and its nothing more than a coincedence?

You all want to play junkyard lawyers but none of you have the experience to make those kinds of decisions.

An employee can never be "coerced" into any kind of searches by the company. Whether or not the car is on company property, it makes no difference under the law.

I would sue UPS for violation of privacy and an illegal search. There is nothing in our contract that allows the company to search any part of an employee or property.

Get your facts straight people.

Your Judge Judy impressions are getting old.

Out.

My thoughts are, keep in mind this is second hand information. The fact of the matter is the employee stole from UPS, told someone about, apparently boasting the same day, and UPS walked him out to this car.

The majority of thieves are not caught at their first offense, although that can be the case, but most thieves push the envelope to see how much that can steal before getting caught.

 

[thelus]

shouldn't have taken anything in the first place. this person pisses me off because i have to wait in a line to go through security to get out of the building

 

[bubsdad]

Anyone ever notice the barbed wire on top of the fence around UPS property is facing in a way that is designed to keep people in, not out? At least that is the way it is at our building. Another guy and I were noticing it the other day. Why would they have it facing in? Just another casual observance that makes you scratch your head and say hmm.

 

[toonertoo]

If he was a thief Im glad he got fired.
Doesnt matter what he gets paid, that is no justification, he took the job.
I had my car/bed of my truck searched before. Got a box from a customer on route to send packages to Hawaii. I would have had no problem although It would have p***** me off, had they asked. But the lp just did it, and another driver told me about it. I caught him during, and we discussed it loudly.
It changed how I feel about working at UPS. And the whole "respect" thing.
I did nothing.
I got the "he had every right to do it, he just did it wrong" and thats all she wrote.
If it happened today, I would handle it totally different. I used to be a wimp, now I am a wench. I have progressed.
I can thank bad people in the past, not present at UPS who have made me what I am today.