Central States Enhanced Plan/And why I may vote no

[GameCockFan]

These are the new co-pay/deductibles. If there is going to be a two-tiered health benefit for full-time workers that would change my vote to a no. After reading the TA more closely some other issues have came up. The IBT/UPS pension accrual rates are frozen @ $170 for 5 years and rise to $175 in 2018. That's not acceptable. If the level of the service pensions being raised (a good, and overdue raise for CS participants.) are being subsidized by freezing the defined benefit plan then it's really a wash. A closer look at the Part-time raise reveals it to really only be a .50/hr increase. The raises for Full-Time workers also seem a little light with the concession of a four year progression. I would also like some clarification on 9.5 rules. It doesn't affect me but I want to be sure that driver with less than 4-years get protection. Younger guys in progression could really be taken advantage of if they don't have 9.5 protection.

At first glance I was voting yes. Any one of the items above wouldn't sway my vote to a no. However, when taken as a whole the cumulative effect sways it to a no vote for me. Were pretty much breaking even at best or actually losing ground as a whole. The pamphlet I recently received from the International touting what UPS asked for initially and what was finally agreed to seems disingenuous. I don't really care what dreamworld agreement UPS wanted, of course there going to ask for outlandish items and then settle for what they deemed obtainable in the first place.

I know concessions need to be made. I already make a well above industry average wage. We face ever increasing competition. Healthcare cost are always an issue for every company, and there is more concern this contract because of the unknown effects of the Affordable Care Act. However, we have all made sacrifices, management and hourlies alike, and helped this company to record profits during one of the worst economic downturns in our history. Now as things seem to be improving we receive a substandard offer. Part-Time pay and opportunities have to be addressed in a better manner than they are today. These people are the workers and leaders of the next generation of our company. I want the company to be successful in the future. Want to say more but I'll leave it at that.

 

[UPS Preloader]

These are the new co-pay/deductibles. If there is going to be a two-tiered health benefit for full-time workers that would change my vote to a no. After reading the TA more closely some other issues have came up. The IBT/UPS pension accrual rates are frozen @ $170 for 5 years and rise to $175 in 2018. That's not acceptable. If the level of the service pensions being raised (a good, and overdue raise for CS participants.) are being subsidized by freezing the defined benefit plan then it's really a wash. A closer look at the Part-time raise reveals it to really only be a .50/hr increase. The raises for Full-Time workers also seem a little light with the concession of a four year progression. I would also like some clarification on 9.5 rules. It doesn't affect me but I want to be sure that driver with less than 4-years get protection. Younger guys in progression could really be taken advantage of if they don't have 9.5 protection.

At first glance I was voting yes. Any one of the items above wouldn't sway my vote to a no. However, when taken as a whole the cumulative effect sways it to a no vote for me. Were pretty much breaking even at best or actually losing ground as a whole. The pamphlet I recently received from the International touting what UPS asked for initially and what was finally agreed to seems disingenuous. I don't really care what dreamworld agreement UPS wanted, of course there going to ask for outlandish items and then settle for what they deemed obtainable in the first place.

I know concessions need to be made. I already make a well above industry average wage. We face ever increasing competition. Healthcare cost are always an issue for every company, and there is more concern this contract because of the unknown effects of the Affordable Care Act. However, we have all made sacrifices, management and hourlies alike, and helped this company to record profits during one of the worst economic downturns in our history. Now as things seem to be improving we receive a substandard offer. Part-Time pay and opportunities have to be addressed in a better manner than they are today. These people are the workers and leaders of the next generation of our company. I want the company to be successful in the future. Want to say more but I'll leave it at that.

Thank you for finally seeing the light! Please make sure you educate others in your building as well.

 

[RealPerson]

These are the new co-pay/deductibles. If there is going to be a two-tiered health benefit for full-time workers that would change my vote to a no. After reading the TA more closely some other issues have came up. The IBT/UPS pension accrual rates are frozen @ $170 for 5 years and rise to $175 in 2018. That's not acceptable. If the level of the service pensions being raised (a good, and overdue raise for CS participants.) are being subsidized by freezing the defined benefit plan then it's really a wash. A closer look at the Part-time raise reveals it to really only be a .50/hr increase. The raises for Full-Time workers also seem a little light with the concession of a four year progression. I would also like some clarification on 9.5 rules. It doesn't affect me but I want to be sure that driver with less than 4-years get protection. Younger guys in progression could really be taken advantage of if they don't have 9.5 protection.

At first glance I was voting yes. Any one of the items above wouldn't sway my vote to a no. However, when taken as a whole the cumulative effect sways it to a no vote for me. Were pretty much breaking even at best or actually losing ground as a whole. The pamphlet I recently received from the International touting what UPS asked for initially and what was finally agreed to seems disingenuous. I don't really care what dreamworld agreement UPS wanted, of course there going to ask for outlandish items and then settle for what they deemed obtainable in the first place.

I know concessions need to be made. I already make a well above industry average wage. We face ever increasing competition. Healthcare cost are always an issue for every company, and there is more concern this contract because of the unknown effects of the Affordable Care Act. However, we have all made sacrifices, management and hourlies alike, and helped this company to record profits during one of the worst economic downturns in our history. Now as things seem to be improving we receive a substandard offer. Part-Time pay and opportunities have to be addressed in a better manner than they are today. These people are the workers and leaders of the next generation of our company. I want the company to be successful in the future. Want to say more but I'll leave it at that.

No Concessions or Givebacks need to be made for a company who in a BAD Economy made Record PROFITS.
I could understand if the company was making small profits, or flat, or even losing money... NOPE Record Profits...

 

[Catatonic]

No Concessions or Givebacks need to be made for a company who in a BAD Economy made Record PROFITS.
I could understand if the company was making small profits, or flat, or even losing money... NOPE Record Profits...

Not a record as percentage of revenue.
4 or 5 Billion sounds like a lot but nothing compared to what GM was making.
Out of that after tax profit, UPS has to pay dividends, Management MIP, capital expenditures (like package cars, trailers, feeder tractors, buildings, etc).
UPS is spending less than they should on cap ex to try and look good for Wall St.
Management MIP is actually employee compensation except UPS keeps half of it for 5 years. This could and probably will be eliminated and so "there goes that profit".
UPS is looking good right now on a false bubble.

Regardless, good luck on getting your desired gains.
Something really needs to be done for P/Timers.
Not much needed for full-pay friend/Timers.

 

[pretender]

Thank you for finally seeing the light! Please make sure you educate others in your building as well.

i am not sure what you mean by a two tiered health benefit?

 

[grinandbearit]

Not a record as percentage of revenue.
4 or 5 Billion sounds like a lot but nothing compared to what GM was making.
Out of that after tax profit, UPS has to pay dividends, Management MIP, capital expenditures (like package cars, trailers, feeder tractors, buildings, etc).
UPS is spending less than they should on cap ex to try and look good for Wall St.
Management MIP is actually employee compensation except UPS keeps half of it for 5 years. This could and probably will be eliminated and so "there goes that profit".
UPS is looking good right now on a false bubble.

Regardless, good luck on getting your desired gains.
Something really needs to be done for P/Timers.
Not much needed for full-pay friend/Timers.

From what I understand, the 4 billion is the profit after paying for "UPS has to pay dividends, Management MIP, capital expenditures (like package cars, trailers, feeder tractors, buildings, etc)". Thats why its called profit, not revenue

 

[RealPerson]

From what I understand, the 4 billion is the profit after paying for "UPS has to pay dividends, Management MIP, capital expenditures (like package cars, trailers, feeder tractors, buildings, etc)". Thats why its called profit, not revenue

It WAS, and then accounting called for a 4 billion write off, book adjustment.... LOL SHADY.

Hoaxter I do NOT care what GM is doing, But you are wrong 2012 was 4.9 Billion for GM
GM finishes 2012 with $4.9 billion profit

Quit sticking up for the Greedy Company who we sacrifice our bodies for...

 

[Catatonic]

It WAS, and then accounting called for a 4 billion write off, book adjustment.... LOL SHADY.

Hoaxter I do NOT care what GM is doing, But you are wrong 2012 was 4.9 Billion for GM
GM finishes 2012 with $4.9 billion profit

Quit sticking up for the Greedy Company who we sacrifice our bodies for...

Sorry I was not more specific ... I was talking about GM record profits in the past (therefore the use of the word "was") when they gave away the house to the Union employees.
That came back to haunt them since they could not compete pricewise 2 decades later.

PS -not sticking up for UPS.
It's just that I feel someone needs to point out teh reality that UPS is sqeezing profits out of a turnip that is dry.

Some tough years to come as production gains and cost containment have been maxxed out.

PS - I no longer own UPS stock so my POV is not a selfish one.

I do want a strong UPS so that future US-based UPS employees have a viable, strong company to work for.

 

[Catatonic]

From what I understand, the 4 billion is the profit after paying for "UPS has to pay dividends, Management MIP, capital expenditures (like package cars, trailers, feeder tractors, buildings, etc)". Thats why its called profit, not revenue

I'm sure it's not the first time you have been wrong in your life.

All the things I mentioned are paid with after tax profits.

​Google it!

 

[Catatonic]

It WAS, and then accounting called for a 4 billion write off, book adjustment.... LOL SHADY.

Hoaxter I do NOT care what GM is doing, But you are wrong 2012 was 4.9 Billion for GM
GM finishes 2012 with $4.9 billion profit

Quit sticking up for the Greedy Company who we sacrifice our bodies for...

It appears you may have sacrificed your brain too!

 

[Brownslave688]

From what I understand, the 4 billion is the profit after paying for "UPS has to pay dividends, Management MIP, capital expenditures (like package cars, trailers, feeder tractors, buildings, etc)". Thats why its called profit, not revenue

I'm sure it's not the first time you have been wrong in your life.

All the things I mentioned are paid with after tax profits.

​Google it!

Not sure about dividends but I was also under the impression that profit was after all other bills are paid. EVERYTHING!!!!!!

There's a reason they call it creative accounting though.

 

[anonymous6]

These are the new co-pay/deductibles. If there is going to be a two-tiered health benefit for full-time workers that would change my vote to a no. After reading the TA more closely some other issues have came up. The IBT/UPS pension accrual rates are frozen @ $170 for 5 years and rise to $175 in 2018. That's not acceptable. If the level of the service pensions being raised (a good, and overdue raise for CS participants.) are being subsidized by freezing the defined benefit plan then it's really a wash. A closer look at the Part-time raise reveals it to really only be a .50/hr increase. The raises for Full-Time workers also seem a little light with the concession of a four year progression. I would also like some clarification on 9.5 rules. It doesn't affect me but I want to be sure that driver with less than 4-years get protection. Younger guys in progression could really be taken advantage of if they don't have 9.5 protection.

At first glance I was voting yes. Any one of the items above wouldn't sway my vote to a no. However, when taken as a whole the cumulative effect sways it to a no vote for me. Were pretty much breaking even at best or actually losing ground as a whole. The pamphlet I recently received from the International touting what UPS asked for initially and what was finally agreed to seems disingenuous. I don't really care what dreamworld agreement UPS wanted, of course there going to ask for outlandish items and then settle for what they deemed obtainable in the first place.

I know concessions need to be made. I already make a well above industry average wage. We face ever increasing competition. Healthcare cost are always an issue for every company, and there is more concern this contract because of the unknown effects of the Affordable Care Act. However, we have all made sacrifices, management and hourlies alike, and helped this company to record profits during one of the worst economic downturns in our history. Now as things seem to be improving we receive a substandard offer. Part-Time pay and opportunities have to be addressed in a better manner than they are today. These people are the workers and leaders of the next generation of our company. I want the company to be successful in the future. Want to say more but I'll leave it at that.

so you think a FAIRER contract in light of UPS's record profits would bankrupt the company? NOT.

 

[grinandbearit]

I'm sure it's not the first time you have been wrong in your life.

All the things I mentioned are paid with after tax profits.

​Google it!

I'm glad your not my accountant, all those items are tax deductions.

 

[GameCockFan]

i am not sure what you mean by a two tiered health benefit?

I mean two different levels of benefits. The one listed in the PDF i for new participants. People already in CS will keep current benefit levels. This is concessionary contract if you look beneath the talking points. we should be receiving better benefits/compensation as the company performs well.

The upper management are receiving large raises and greatly benefiting from the increased stock price.

 

[Catatonic]

I'm glad your not my accountant, all those items are tax deductions.

No they are not.
Any purchase that is made that will generate cash flow in years after the purchase year must be capitalized.
These assets cannot be deducted in the purchase year but must be depreciated over a certain number of years based on their asset class.
Try filing a business tax and deduct the purchase of a Cap Ex over $500 such as a vehicle.
You will be paying more taxes and a penalty.
Admit it, you don't have a clue!

I'll even provide a link so you'll stop making a fool of yourself.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Capex_vs_Opex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_expenditure

 

[Catatonic]

Not sure about dividends but I was also under the impression that profit was after all other bills are paid. EVERYTHING!!!!!!

There's a reason they call it creative accounting though.

There is no reason for you to be aware of this since you don't run a business and file business tax returns.
At least you are hesitant about something you have no knowledge of unlike some others.

Having help set up a couple of UPS subsidiaries as well as my own businesses, I unfortunately understand more than I desire to.

 

[bluehdmc]

I thought investment in buildings, feeder tractors, trailers (and they've gotten a *****load of 53ft trailers and containers), and package cars were investments in the business. Capital expenditures and written off over a period of years, (depreciation).

As far as trying to make a comparison to the GM of old, wasn't there a certain amount of mismanagement, such as Saturn, "a new kind of car, a new car company" or something like that. Saturn NEVER made a profit. None of the US car manufacturers
anticipated the gas shortages of the 70's which is where the "foreign" manufacturers got their foothold in the US markets. The quality of US cars SUCKED. Sometimes they still do, by comparison to the 2 Toyotas I bought which were relatively trouble free for 140K miles, I've had more problems with my Jeep in 75K.

 

[beentheredonethat]

I'm glad your not my accountant, all those items are tax deductions.

With Capital expenditures, you pay for it with after tax dollars when you purchase them and then in the following years you take deductions on the purchase price. However, it is deducted over a period of years. (It varies depending on the exact item purchased). It's not like a "standard deduction" on your personal taxes. You won't believe me, like you won't believe Hoak since we are mgmt. However, as Hoax said, google it, or ask a tax expert. It's a simple question and they will give you a simple answer that it is paid with after tax dollars.

 

[pretender]

I mean two different levels of benefits. The one listed in the PDF i for new participants. People already in CS will keep current benefit levels. This is concessionary contract if you look beneath the talking points. we should be receiving better benefits/compensation as the company performs well.

The upper management are receiving large raises and greatly benefiting from the increased stock price.

I am not doubting you, but that is hard to believe. I take it that the plan for new participants is better?