Central States penson fund is ready to go under.

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Bill, Apr 7, 2007.

  1. Bill

    Bill Member

    This is in response to my last thread I posted on "Is the pension plan in Central States about to go under". New information has surfaced to prove this. I obtained a complete copy of the latest annual report (2005, the report from 2006 is not out yet) from Central States pension fund, form 5500. This is public record, so if you don't believe me, call Central States and get a copy for yourself. This is what you need to know. Schedule B, lines 2a,2b, and 2c, shows the number of participants in this fund, the assets and liabilities, and the percentage that is funded. Total assets are 18.7 billion dollars, total liabilities are 39.6 billion dollars. There is a shortage of almost 21 billion dollars. The liabilities are currently more than twice the assets. Line 2c, shows that the pension is only 47.2 % funded. This is down from 50.43% funded in 2004. It went down even with an investment return of 13.4%, (also in this report). Even with a hefty investment return, the fund still declined! The Teamsters don't want the government to take over our fund, as they will no longer be able to steal our money (they call it administration fees which are in the millions), so they divert all of the additional medical money into the pension. This causes the medical fund to be underfunded, and thus we all pay higher copayments and deductibles. As more employees retire each year, the fund accepts additional liabilities, but the assets continue to shrink. As a result, further cuts are needed each year, as the fund is beyond the point of no return. This is why the Teamsters want each of us to work until the age of 65. Most of us will not be able to do this back breaking work at that age, so they limit the monthly pension we receive.
    This is not fair to us, but we have an alternative. We can replace the Teamsters with the APWA, (a union for UPS employees only, where we receive all the pension money and not share it other people that worked for other companies). In order to do this, we need you to sign a petition card from someone in your work area that is passing them out. It is time we took control of our pension fund and stop the abuse that the Teamsters are forcing on us. UPS gives more than enough money to fully fund a pension (100%), and more than enough money for medical benefits where we are not forced into paying higher copays and deductibles. Open your eyes already and stop believing the Teamster propaganda machine. Ask them to show you in writing where the pension money is. I doubt they will, as they have no answers left.
    Some of you have called me names and disputed what I write, but none of you can back up your baseless statements. The proof is in the report, like it or not.
     
  2. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    Engineer, this APWA cheerleading thing is really starting to annoy. No one is holding a gun to my head, threatening my life if I don't read these posts. However, the repeated posting of this cheerleading effort and the "by the numbers" postings are suggesting to me APWA isn't getting the message out that it must to succeed. Seems like every day, I log in and see a new cheerleading post, bragging about X number of cards collected at X center. When is this going to stop and the results start showing up in mainstream media?? I watch Fox, CNN and CNN Headline News when I get the chance and see nothing, not to mention no stories on news dissemination sites (ie Yahoo, etc). I think this is a reasonable question to ask. I'm really curious. I await your response. Knowing my luck, I'll get flamed. -Rocky
     
  3. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    Not to change the subject........
    Did Central States change the retirement age to 65?
    Last I heard it was 62.
    Anyone know?
    Thanks.
     
  4. 30andout

    30andout New Member

    Gee I was told it was still 57, I guess they don't want us to really know.
     
  5. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    ROCKY,
    I am one of your so called cheerleaders, and I know the APWA leaders very well, but for whatever reason they don't fell that at this point, it is prudent to divulge concrete statistical info on their campaign.
    I do know however, that they have only collected cards in a small cross section of the country at this point and the number of signings so far have been higher than expected. As, far as the media is concerned, there has been sporadic coverage by local news stations at card signing locations. I look for this to pick up as the time grows closer to a NLRB vote.
    One thing that you need to understand is that the nay-sayers are give credit to the campaign unknowingly by assuming that it is moving much faster than it actually is. This is a gigantic undertaking and it will take some time, so we must be patient, the info will come in time.

    Trick,
    I am sure that the age limit was 62, but in recent weeks, I have been hearing the 65 age limit used. It may have changed but I have not seen it in writing as of yet.
     
  6. mittam

    mittam Member

    I have heard the same thing 65 lately but noone knows where it is coming from. It is still based on 62 for the penalty if you retire before 62 6% per year. If you decide to retire before 57 you get no insurance have to be 58 for that.
     
  7. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    Sawdust,

    I think my "cheerleaders" comment may have been taken out of context. Regardless, the statistical data is what I'd need to see to give any credence to any claims of success. If APWA's leadership doesn't feel comfortable putting that out, hey, great. I have zero problem with that. I'm just not going to give credence to any claims til I start seeing some combination of these:
    1). Mass media coverage (CNN, Fox, etc, etc el-al)
    2). Statistical information (and statistics in this form isn't hard to understand, so I wanna see 'em).
    I don't feel this is unreasonable. I need solid information (statistical data) and/or mass media reporting on the effort (proof the effort isn't a one barn effort).

    Its a mistake to collect cards only in one part of the country. I haven't heard one word in Denver, let alone from anyone in the Denver area. The fellow running Brown is the only way I've heard anything about APWA save for this site. And APWA's site isn't exactly a great provider of information.

    They may give credit somehow but they're not enough. Some time? Sir, this may take years and that's just in one part of the country. An NLRB vote may be ten years away! Burying information is the last thing APWA's leadership wants to do. Here we go again with credibility!!! APWA's fight is hinging on credibillity and it has zerooo! Rocky
     
  8. upsdawg

    upsdawg UPSDAWG

    I read this and have to go back to the Contract PROPOSAL OF 97---where UPS wanted to co-manage the Pension Fund.......and of course the Teamsters wanted no part of it.................and since the majority had already given the Teamo's the ability to call a strike on "YOUR BEHALF"--they did and here we are almost 10 years later and wondering if the Central States will be around--or how much longer will they be able to go under funded before the US Gov't steps in.It is so unfair for UPS to continue to pay for benefits for non-UPSers that have retired-----so either the APWA steps in or I see UPS freezing the Pension Fund as we know it today---controlled by the Teamsters----and goes to a 401k fund where you have whatever you have paid into the Teamsters---and in addition, you control where your 401k matched funded are deposited and that will be your future pension money.
     
  9. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    And I'd have no problem with freezing the pension and going to a 401K system. Some of the older ladies and gentleman on this site may have a problem with that but I don't. I guess my concern would be twofold: how large of a match? AND how is it made (cash or stock)? Those are the first two questions I'd ask. Depending on the answers, I'd have more. -Rocky
     
  10. poway

    poway Guest

    I'd provide a small match - up to a certain figure - say $500/yr over a 5 year vesting schedule - for employees with a hire date after 2008.

    No match for anyone currently employed and represented by Teamsters.

    Too much money has been :censored2: away on you already.

    After the 1997 strike no Teamster is worthy of employment at UPS anyway.

    I'd really rather permanently replace you AND your pension with new employees who have a 401(k) with NO match.

    Maybe UPS can't survive without you. I'm willing to roll the dice and risk it.

    So are many others.

    I don't know if you realize it or not.
     
  11. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    Rocky,
    I didn't say that the cards were only being collected in one small area. I said, so fair the card collection has been in a small cross section of the country, meaning that they have started in select areas all over the country and will move forward from there.
    Rest assured, when the APWA leaders fell the time is right, the info will be coming fast and furiously from all directions. But at this stage, it wouldn't be strategically smart to feed to much info to the opposition.

    Poway,
    Respectfully, I must say that you are way out there in left field.
     
  12. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member


    How ironic! "Some of you have called me names and disputed what I write..."? How whiney! Let's see now...

    You called me a moron! Remember? You've called others idiots. Remember?

    You said, "If I wanted your opinion, I would have give it to you". What the hell does that mean?

    How reputable! I don't care what you're preaching, man, are you going about it wrong! Your leaders better put a leash on you!

    Yeah, like Rocky said, we're all getting tired of your insults and your hardball. Why not grow up and treat others with the respect that you want?
     
  13. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    Rocky,
    I also would like to add that I respect your decision to reserve your judgement until you have more facts. That is proof of open mindedness, and that is a great trait.
    I do however fell that once you have the facts, we will see eye to eye.
     
  14. Bill

    Bill Member

    If you had 20 or more full time years before the changes were made in 2003, your retirement age was set at 62 years, but if you unfortunately did not, you will have to work until the age of 65.
     
  15. Bill

    Bill Member

    This is not cheerleading as you say. I will never convince people that are pro-Teamsters that the Teamsters are screwing us. I only want to show those that are undecided that they have a choice to improve on the benefits that they once had. The numbers I post are factual, and I do this because most people do not want to spend any time doing the research. Right now, you will not see any news stories covering the APWA, because a vote has not been held yet, and a strike has not been called. If the truth hurts to read, then don't read it. Others out there would like to know the truth, and not believe the Teamsters just because they say so.
     
  16. Bill

    Bill Member

    You can retire anytime you like, but a penalty of 6% per year under the age of 62 or 65 is deducted from your pension. For example, if your retirement age is set at 62, and you retire at 57, you receive a deduction of 6% X 5 years = 30% from any accruals that you were credited with after 2003. I hope this answers your question.
     
  17. Bill

    Bill Member

    I have no problem giving respect where respect is due. However, when I post the facts, and verify where anyone can find it,but people still question the data without checking out the truth, then I can't bring myself to respect those people.
     
  18. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    Trick, go to the central states website. If you have not registered you will not be able to access the retirement projection page. I do not remember the process of obtaining your personal login, since I did it several years back. You might even have to do it by phone. Once you do reach that page you will see all the restrictions. Last I looked, about two months ago, no discount of 6% per year if you are 62. It really is a great projection of pension benefits. You can choose at what age you would like to retire and the answer is based on your personal info. Just be sure to read all the pages. Many jobs that you can or can not do before the age of 65 have to be approved by CS. If not,they stop paying until you can prove you are not working at a unapproved job. Even if it is approved you can only work 80 hrs a month. Hope this info helps.
     
  19. RockyRogue

    RockyRogue Agent of Change

    This is where we start having problems, sir. I've seen nothing from any other part of the country, just from one specific region (basically the Carolinas to New Orleans). And the mention of APWA in New Orleans is very recent. To me anyway, it seems APWA is having a hard time reaching Ol' Miss. They can move forward to wherever they want but taking years ain't smart.

    I understand it being a strategic error to give the "enemy" information it can use against the effort. However, once again, I'm back to the mass media comment. There hasn't been one word mentioned in mass media. This once again suggests a credibility problem.

    You don't have to respectful to his s**t talking!!! His post was very insulting. UPS would keep moving if we all quit or were terminated but how long would it take to get back to where we are now in terms of delivery capacity or volume processing ability? I think it would take years!!

    Intelligence...its a great thing. Education is even more so. I've had a number of great instructors that have asked for patience and openmindedness before I pass judgement. Being a reasonable person, let alone a coolheaded individual is why I'm waiting for more facts but my patience or tolerance will categorically not last years! And we may see eye to eye but those facts will have to come sooner rather than later, sir.

    I would definitively categorize this as "cheerleading," sir. Do you have a better description for it?? I'm not f***ing pro-Teamster, either!! I'm sitting in the middle, waiting for someone to convince me one side is the wiser choice. So far, I'm not getting anything I can hang my hat on from yours! And I can do the research--if I had an interest in what you were posting numbers about. But, I don't have an interest, so I'm not going to research it. Why the h*ll would I waste my time?? And showing news-stories about the effort without a strike or vote being held might take you further than just sitting on this until you get to that point!! Contrary to popular belief, the American people are actually quite bright.
     
  20. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    Rocky,

    If I understood you right, you are in Mississippi.
    Your lack of hearing about the APWA is puzzling to me. I know for a fact that the APWA has held several meetings in different parts of MISS. and the surrounding states. I beleive the gulf coast regional director for the APWA is located in either Miss., or Louisiana.
    As far as this being a one region thing. The APWA now has members in 48 of 50 states, excluding Alaska and Hawaii. So, you see, just because you have not heard of it else where, does not mean that it isn't happening.