Central states-what happens when???

WhatsUP

Well-Known Member
UPS promised to make up any shortages until you turn 65 but if this bill passes it would be a small next step to allow them to break a contractual promise if the law allowed it. After 65 you (or me at least) would be at the mercy of Central States and PBGC. The PBGC guarantee for muti-employer funds is only something like $1100-1200 per month. PBGC does pay a lot more for single payer funds (about 3 times as much but I'm not sure of the exact number) but Central States is a multi-payer plan. That is how bad it would be now before retirees get screwed even worse from that bill.


Summary of the pension cutback provisions in the Kline-Miller amendment
December 11, 2014 -- Today, the U.S. House of Representatives will vote on the sole amendment added to the Omnibus spending bill. It allows trustees of certain multiemployer pension plans to cut the benefits of retirees. The following is a summary of the retiree cutback provisions in the amendment:

  • The legislation permits deep pension cuts to retirees in certain financially-troubled multiemployer plans. Financially-troubled plans are plans that are expected to not have enough money to pay 100% of benefits in 10 to 20 years. In some cases, the cuts could exceed 60% of a participant’s benefits.
  • Retirees who are age 80 or over, or are receiving a disability pension, are not subject to benefit cuts. Retirees ages 75-79 are subject to smaller cuts than retirees under age 75.
  • The cuts are made by plan trustees, who are typically more aligned with active workers and contributing employers, than with retirees.
  • Plan trustees have discretion in deciding how to allocate the cuts. For example, they can cut retirees’ benefits more than those of active workers, and decide whether to reduce survivors’ benefits.
  • Plan trustees are exempt from fiduciary responsibility in making cuts. Retirees who are harmed cannot challenge the trustees’ actions in court, even if those actions are arbitrary and capricious, or contrary to the interests of plan participants.
  • Trustees’ decisions to cut benefits can only be reversed by the Department of Treasury, and then only if the Treasury determines that the trustees’ decision to cut benefits or the extent of the benefit cuts is “clearly erroneous.”
  • There is no provision for automatic restoration of lost benefits if a plan’s funding status improves.
  • UPS retirees in the Central States Teamsters plan are given special protection: their benefits are last in line to be cut. This provision is reportedly the result of a last-minute deal that will save UPS an estimated $2 billion that it would otherwise have been contractually be required to pay to its retirees.
  • Plans with 10,000 or more participants must allow all participants to vote on cuts before they are implemented. However, this right is illusory. First, a majority of all workers and retirees in a plan – not just a majority of the ones who vote – is required to block cuts. Thus, a vote to block cuts fails even if 100% of those voting oppose the cuts, if only 49% of participants actually vote. Moreover, ballots can be distributed by e-mail, which means that retirees who don’t use e-mail or who lack internet access might not find out about or be able to vote.
  • Even if all participants vote against cuts, the Treasury Department can override the vote and uphold the trustees’ decision to make cuts, if it concludes that a plan poses a “systemic” risk to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (the federal pension insurance program).
  • The insurance premiums that multiemployer plans pay to the PBGC are increased from $13 to $26 per participant per year. In contrast, premiums paid to the single-employer plan program are between $57 and $475 per participant per year. The benefits guaranteed by the single-employer program are four times the maximum benefits guaranteed by the multiemployer program.
"UPS retirees in the Central States Teamsters plan are given special protection: their benefits are last in line to be cut. This provision is reportedly the result of a last-minute deal that will save UPS an estimated $2 billion that it would otherwise have been contractually be required to pay to its retirees."
.............................................................
Does this special deal for UPS include all UPS Central States Retirees going back before 2007.
 

WhatsUP

Well-Known Member
Summary of the pension cutback provisions in the Kline-Miller amendment
December 11, 2014 -- Today, the U.S. House of Representatives will vote on the sole amendment added to the Omnibus spending bill. It allows trustees of certain multiemployer pension plans to cut the benefits of retirees. The following is a summary of the retiree cutback provisions in the amendment:

  • The legislation permits deep pension cuts to retirees in certain financially-troubled multiemployer plans. Financially-troubled plans are plans that are expected to not have enough money to pay 100% of benefits in 10 to 20 years. In some cases, the cuts could exceed 60% of a participant’s benefits.
  • Retirees who are age 80 or over, or are receiving a disability pension, are not subject to benefit cuts. Retirees ages 75-79 are subject to smaller cuts than retirees under age 75.
  • The cuts are made by plan trustees, who are typically more aligned with active workers and contributing employers, than with retirees.
  • Plan trustees have discretion in deciding how to allocate the cuts. For example, they can cut retirees’ benefits more than those of active workers, and decide whether to reduce survivors’ benefits.
  • Plan trustees are exempt from fiduciary responsibility in making cuts. Retirees who are harmed cannot challenge the trustees’ actions in court, even if those actions are arbitrary and capricious, or contrary to the interests of plan participants.
  • Trustees’ decisions to cut benefits can only be reversed by the Department of Treasury, and then only if the Treasury determines that the trustees’ decision to cut benefits or the extent of the benefit cuts is “clearly erroneous.”
  • There is no provision for automatic restoration of lost benefits if a plan’s funding status improves.
  • UPS retirees in the Central States Teamsters plan are given special protection: their benefits are last in line to be cut. This provision is reportedly the result of a last-minute deal that will save UPS an estimated $2 billion that it would otherwise have been contractually be required to pay to its retirees.
  • Plans with 10,000 or more participants must allow all participants to vote on cuts before they are implemented. However, this right is illusory. First, a majority of all workers and retirees in a plan – not just a majority of the ones who vote – is required to block cuts. Thus, a vote to block cuts fails even if 100% of those voting oppose the cuts, if only 49% of participants actually vote. Moreover, ballots can be distributed by e-mail, which means that retirees who don’t use e-mail or who lack internet access might not find out about or be able to vote.
  • Even if all participants vote against cuts, the Treasury Department can override the vote and uphold the trustees’ decision to make cuts, if it concludes that a plan poses a “systemic” risk to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (the federal pension insurance program).
  • The insurance premiums that multiemployer plans pay to the PBGC are increased from $13 to $26 per participant per year. In contrast, premiums paid to the single-employer plan program are between $57 and $475 per participant per year. The benefits guaranteed by the single-employer program are four times the maximum benefits guaranteed by the multiemployer program.
"UPS retirees in the Central States Teamsters plan are given special protection: their benefits are last in line to be cut. This provision is reportedly the result of a last-minute deal that will save UPS an estimated $2 billion that it would otherwise have been contractually be required to pay to its retirees."
.............................................................
Does this special deal for UPS include all UPS Central States Retirees going back before 2007.

This is the way i understand it:?

UPS will be last in line to take Central States Pension Reductions therefore could save UPS up to $2 Billion . If there are any cuts, UPS then will have to make up the difference for those that retired after 2007.The ones that retired before 2007 will have to take the cuts if any at all.
I haven't read anything as of yet about a carve out for UPS retirees. What I have seen discusses the multi-employer pensions which still exist with some Locals within UPS. Local 710 for one. But the bill seems to be only targeting multi-employer plans in the red. One article discussed Central States which has 400,000 employees. It said this plan would be insolvent in 10 to 15 years. It said this is the example of the plans the bill is for. It said if enough of these plans that are near insolvency were to fail, the would bankrupt the PGBC because of the number of retirees involved. The PGBC would not have enough money to pay all of the retirees. The bill was not directed at funds that are in the green. That being said, the article also said it would be up to the trustees of the plan to decide if they need to reduce payments for their local to remain solvent. But, at that point, it has to voted on by the current employees and retirees. Also, it said retirees that are disabled or over 75 would not be affected. Also, I believe if you are retired under Central States, and under 65, I think the contract says UPS would make up the difference to keep you at the correct pension until you turn 65, then you would only receive what Central States pays.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
Summary of the pension cutback provisions in the Kline-Miller amendment
December 11, 2014 -- Today, the U.S. House of Representatives will vote on the sole amendment added to the Omnibus spending bill. It allows trustees of certain multiemployer pension plans to cut the benefits of retirees. The following is a summary of the retiree cutback provisions in the amendment:

  • The legislation permits deep pension cuts to retirees in certain financially-troubled multiemployer plans. Financially-troubled plans are plans that are expected to not have enough money to pay 100% of benefits in 10 to 20 years. In some cases, the cuts could exceed 60% of a participant’s benefits.
  • Retirees who are age 80 or over, or are receiving a disability pension, are not subject to benefit cuts. Retirees ages 75-79 are subject to smaller cuts than retirees under age 75.
  • The cuts are made by plan trustees, who are typically more aligned with active workers and contributing employers, than with retirees.
  • Plan trustees have discretion in deciding how to allocate the cuts. For example, they can cut retirees’ benefits more than those of active workers, and decide whether to reduce survivors’ benefits.
  • Plan trustees are exempt from fiduciary responsibility in making cuts. Retirees who are harmed cannot challenge the trustees’ actions in court, even if those actions are arbitrary and capricious, or contrary to the interests of plan participants.
  • Trustees’ decisions to cut benefits can only be reversed by the Department of Treasury, and then only if the Treasury determines that the trustees’ decision to cut benefits or the extent of the benefit cuts is “clearly erroneous.”
  • There is no provision for automatic restoration of lost benefits if a plan’s funding status improves.
  • UPS retirees in the Central States Teamsters plan are given special protection: their benefits are last in line to be cut. This provision is reportedly the result of a last-minute deal that will save UPS an estimated $2 billion that it would otherwise have been contractually be required to pay to its retirees.
  • Plans with 10,000 or more participants must allow all participants to vote on cuts before they are implemented. However, this right is illusory. First, a majority of all workers and retirees in a plan – not just a majority of the ones who vote – is required to block cuts. Thus, a vote to block cuts fails even if 100% of those voting oppose the cuts, if only 49% of participants actually vote. Moreover, ballots can be distributed by e-mail, which means that retirees who don’t use e-mail or who lack internet access might not find out about or be able to vote.
  • Even if all participants vote against cuts, the Treasury Department can override the vote and uphold the trustees’ decision to make cuts, if it concludes that a plan poses a “systemic” risk to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (the federal pension insurance program).
  • The insurance premiums that multiemployer plans pay to the PBGC are increased from $13 to $26 per participant per year. In contrast, premiums paid to the single-employer plan program are between $57 and $475 per participant per year. The benefits guaranteed by the single-employer program are four times the maximum benefits guaranteed by the multiemployer program.
"UPS retirees in the Central States Teamsters plan are given special protection: their benefits are last in line to be cut. This provision is reportedly the result of a last-minute deal that will save UPS an estimated $2 billion that it would otherwise have been contractually be required to pay to its retirees."
.............................................................
Does this special deal for UPS include all UPS Central States Retirees going back before 2007.
Nope. Just those that retired after January 1, 2008.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
"UPS retirees in the Central States Teamsters plan are given special protection: their benefits are last in line to be cut. This provision is reportedly the result of a last-minute deal that will save UPS an estimated $2 billion that it would otherwise have been contractually be required to pay to its retirees."
.............................................................
Does this special deal for UPS include all UPS Central States Retirees going back before 2007.

The government is going to permit pension funds to cut retiree benefits.

Pension funds, like the central states, will cut benefits do to being in the RED.

This bill, without the handout to UPS, would of put UPS on the line to make up the difference in the central states being that the pension fund could cut benefits to retirees do to this bill. This is because they are obligated to make up the difference.
 

WhatsUP

Well-Known Member
The government is going to permit pension funds to cut retiree benefits.

Pension funds, like the central states, will cut benefits do to being in the RED.

This bill, without the handout to UPS, would of put UPS on the line to make up the difference in the central states being that the pension fund could cut benefits to retirees do to this bill. This is because they are obligated to make up the difference.

what do they mean "UPS will be last in line to take cuts" I understand it covers all UPS retirees that were under Central States? And if they are cuts, then UPS will make up the difference for only those retired in 2008 and later.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
what do they mean "UPS will be last in line to take cuts" I understand it covers all UPS retirees that were under Central States? And if they are cuts, then UPS will make up the difference for only those retired in 2008 and later.

The bill allows pension funds to cut.
UPS central states retirees will be the last to receive cuts. The other employers retirees will be cut before a UPSer. By not cutting them, UPS will not have to make up the shortfall. These central state UPSer retirees will not see a cut.
 

PT Car Washer

Well-Known Member
The bill allows pension funds to cut.
UPS central states retirees will be the last to receive cuts. The other employers retirees will be cut before a UPSer. By not cutting them, UPS will not have to make up the shortfall. These central state UPSer retirees will not see a cut.
At least under the current contract. Wait and see what happens in 2018.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
At least under the current contract. Wait and see what happens in 2018.
UPS will want something BIG from the union to keep it in there. 2 tier wage scale?

Problem is, Hoffa doesn't care. Take it out and we just suffer the same benefit cuts as everyone else in the Central States Pension.

From the letter that Hoffa sent Congress, he is pissed that UPS got a concession from the Kline-Miller amendment. He wants UPS to pay billions. Paybacks are hell.

He better not be in office in 2018 or we are going to get screwed.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
UPS already paid billions. Hoffa just wants more.
$6 billion to be exact. Now Hoffa wants them to have to pay $2 billion more. If Hoffa had his way, he could dang near drive UPS out of business. Then what would he do for dues money? He better be careful.

I agree that it may not be fair for others to take a cut and not UPS retirees, but if UPS retirees took a cut along with the others, UPS would be paying billions to make up for those cuts.

No other company has to make up the reduction. UPS is the only one. So is it fair that UPS is the only company that stands to lose huge amounts of money?

Congress didn't think so.
 

ski or die

Ski or Die
Congress may have been considering the contributions that UPS has made over the years, not including the 6 billion. Congress may feel UPS has contributed its fair share, while other employers in the plan have not, or went out of business leaving employees in the plan with no additional contributions.
 

rod

Retired 22 years
Congress may have been considering the contributions that UPS has made over the years, not including the 6 billion. Congress may feel UPS has contributed its fair share, while other employers in the plan have not, or went out of business leaving employees in the plan with no additional contributions.


Congress put all those trucking companies out of business by deregulating the industry.
 
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