Change you can believe in.

1989

Well-Known Member
National Debt Graph: Bush Goes for WWII Stimulus

How We Get Out of the Great Depression II
By Steven Stoft, March 2, 2009
Here we go again: Hoover got us in, and WWII got us out. Bush got us in, and
to his credit, starting trying to get us out. Though, mostly he threw money at bankers.
In the Great Depression, Roosevelt tried deficit spending, but he was too timid. Then he stopped in 1937 and the economy nose-dived. It took the humongous deficits of WWII to pull us out of the Great Depression. Those deficits blasted the economy from depression into overdrive.
Of course after the war, we had to pay off a huge national debt, but during that time, from 1946 to 1980, the economy was mainly quite prosperous. We hit a bad recession when Reagan took office, and his early deficit spending made sense (though he didn't know it). But then he continued to drive up the debt through the boom years that followed. That didn't make any sense.
We are now headed into the worst slump since 1938, and you better hope Obama can fix it because that was not a pretty time. Unfortunately, as in the Great Depression, the extreme conservatives would rather trash the country than have our government succeed. They are much worse than Bush.
The main thing to remember is that, with consumer spending going down, business is going to lay people off—not hire them. You can't blame business for this. It's just a vicious cycle the economy gets into. Any you can't blame consumers for not spending in bad times. The only way out of this, if we don't want to wait 10 or 20 years, is for the government to spend, pay unemployment insurance, or give tax breaks to people who will spend (not the rich). Of course there's also the problem of the banks. Obama should stop saving the bankers, and just take over the bad banks. Once they're working they can be sold back to the private sector.


We've lost a lot of capital since inaugeration. Lack of clarification by the admin. is the main reason (uncertainty)...Capital creates jobs...If we give tax brakes to the people who will hire people. Say that person hires 2 people, that is now 3 people working. 3 people bringing in tax revenue and not draining unimployment. And 3 people spending...Poor people don't create jobs.
 

Sammie

Well-Known Member
Every darn slimy snake he elects to any post. Ok make a 10 grand mistake on your taxes, Or forget to file, and you can run for your life, forget an office.
BUT WHEN YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT, ITS JUST DIFFERENT.:whiteflag:

Speaking of a slimy lying snake, remember Tony Goldwyn in "Ghost"? The
guy gave me the creeps. Come to find out, his equally shady twin brother (tell me there's no resemblence)



990GHS_Tony_Goldwyn_002.jpg
20090304__20090305_B09_BZ05GEITHNER~p1_200.JPG


has been carrying the ball by himself as Treasury Chief and should
have been working all this time with 17 "deputies" who have yet to materialize. Paul Volcker, a former Federal Reserve chairman and current Presidential advisor calls this behavior "shameful"...


http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_11838867
 
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tieguy

Banned
Many of your points are good ones Tie but you made one real good and correct point that I'd like to further add too. Bush did implement some socialist ideas and I guess whether they worked or not is open to debate but if Bush being the success you say he was using socialism, then why the massive objection to Obama and the democrats using socialism? Is it the amount of socialism? Seems to me that if a little worked good, a lot would work better so why the upset with Obama's socialism?

2.5 trillon dollars in less then a 100 days of his administration.

Another thing, when Bush ran the show and when people objected to Bush (reality it was Bush policy) the standard pat cry from the red state amen corner was "you are being unpatriotic because the nation is at war!" In other words, voicing objection to a sitting President was just unpatriotic.

I don't know wkmac I didn't make that argument. I did make the argument that we got dragged into the war and the excess spending by a bunch of terrorists.

Well what about now with a new President in the White house and we are still at war?

mute point for me , someone that made the patriotism argument will have to answer you.

I do think the so-called "conservative" hype on the republican party is about all political hype or a down right lie IMO. The republican party is a rather middle of the road, a mixed socialist style idea of governance with a bit less heavy hand in some areas and a bit more heavy handed in others but socialist none the less. I think the republican party should come out and be honest and stop trying to pretend to be something they are not but then if they did that, an enough percentage of voters would walk away and democrats would have a sure lock on every election and republicans know this. The big question going forward will be can the republican party salvage the lie and keep the % voters from going rogue?

Its an issue you and those who have decided to veer away from the main parties make. You political purist like to sit around the camp fire and argue the evils of country and politics. Most voters who voted Obama in voted him because:

a) They listened to the press and bought in with no homework.
b) Thought Obama look good and sounded good. the old likeability factor. meanwhile on the republican side we had poor old John McCain. Lot more experienced , career of reaching across the aisle but just not that pretty. Likeability has always been a bigger part of elections then the purism of politics that you keep throwing out there.

BTW TOS: Your last 2 posts were dead on the money. Nice finds!
:thumbup1:

not quite . He's missing the 2.5 trillon the present president is spending before his 100 days have passed.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Only one new 52 week high on the NYSE today....Sturm Ruger.....Scary.

Thanks to our new President, the only thing that's doing good now is gun and ammo sales.
It is actually hard to find ammo right now, everyone is sold out!
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
I will, thanks. It's hard to find companys that will ship ammo to Massachusetts, only cause Mass laws are so convoluted most companys think it's safer just to stay clear.

Like Sportsmansguide. Good ammo deals, but they won't ship here.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Thanks to our new President, the only thing that's doing good now is gun and ammo sales.
It is actually hard to find ammo right now, everyone is sold out!

Over,

Why buy ammo? Did you ever consider reloading? It's not hard and using reason and common sense, it is safe. Start out with say a Lyman or RCBS single stroke machine to learn the ropes and then advance to a turret design or better yet, move up to a Dillion.

Just an option to consider!
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Over,

Why buy ammo? Did you ever consider reloading? It's not hard and using reason and common sense, it is safe. Start out with say a Lyman or RCBS single stroke machine to learn the ropes and then advance to a turret design or better yet, move up to a Dillion.

Just an option to consider!

I have considered it, but it would take time away from BC!!!!

Good idea tho, I should.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I have considered it, but it would take time away from BC!!!!

No it won't. Get a Dillion 550 and with auto feeds you can pull the handle with one hand on the dillion while having the other hand free to work the keyboard and mouse!

Now that's multi-tasking!

:wink2:

Honey! Honey! You should be proud of me! I just made 20 posts on the BC and loaded 500 rounds of .45 acp at the same time.

Honey! Honey! Aren't you impressed? Are you awake?
:happy-very::happy-very::happy-very:
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
No it won't. Get a Dillion 550 and with auto feeds you can pull the handle with one hand on the dillion while having the other hand free to work the keyboard and mouse!

Now that's multi-tasking!

:wink2:

Honey! Honey! You should be proud of me! I just made 20 posts on the BC and loaded 500 rounds of .45 acp at the same time.

Honey! Honey! Aren't you impressed? Are you awake?
:happy-very::happy-very::happy-very:


Hmmmm, or I could teach HER to load the ammo....
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
not quite . He's missing the 2.5 trillon the present president is spending before his 100 days have passed.


TIEGUY,

a little detail you leave out of those numbers is the COST OF BOTH WARS that BUSH NEVER paid for!

As President Obama said, the cost of these wars will not be hidden from the american people any longer.

The deferred cost of these wars was a ticking time bomb that would have gone against McCain just as equally if he was elected.

At 5 billion a month currently, these wars continue to drag this country into further debt. Getting out will surely stop the eonomic bleeding caused a deep wound of ideological failure.

Everyone thinks they are an economist now.

FAUX news has been wrong for over 8 years now. From Cavuto to Orielly.

All have been wrong in their positions on this economy. Cavuto calling the press and those trying to ring the alarms bells: extremists and exagerators, 2 years ago when the signs all pointed at a recession.

Orielly, hammered anyone who said the country was in a recession from 2007 thru december 2008, yet the facts now prove him to be wrong.

Both of these idiots claimed there was no housing bubble, and no need for panic, yet, since that claim, over 4 million homes have gone into foreclosure and another estimated 1.5 million to go this year.

So, lets not make numbers your specialty TIE, you too have been on the wrong side of reality when it comes to the economy.

All you have to do is go back and read some of your posts.

I have a few clues for sale if your interested?:sick:
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
TIEGUY,

a little detail you leave out of those numbers is the COST OF BOTH WARS that BUSH NEVER paid for!

As President Obama said, the cost of these wars will not be hidden from the american people any longer.

The deferred cost of these wars was a ticking time bomb that would have gone against McCain just as equally if he was elected.

At 5 billion a month currently, these wars continue to drag this country into further debt. Getting out will surely stop the eonomic bleeding caused a deep wound of ideological failure.

Everyone thinks they are an economist now.

FAUX news has been wrong for over 8 years now. From Cavuto to Orielly.

All have been wrong in their positions on this economy. Cavuto calling the press and those trying to ring the alarms bells: extremists and exagerators, 2 years ago when the signs all pointed at a recession.

Orielly, hammered anyone who said the country was in a recession from 2007 thru december 2008, yet the facts now prove him to be wrong.

Both of these idiots claimed there was no housing bubble, and no need for panic, yet, since that claim, over 4 million homes have gone into foreclosure and another estimated 1.5 million to go this year.

So, lets not make numbers your specialty TIE, you too have been on the wrong side of reality when it comes to the economy.

All you have to do is go back and read some of your posts.

I have a few clues for sale if your interested?:sick:

Lol, 5 billion a month? Thats chump change when this President spent $800 billion with the stroke of a pen. Sad really that our grandkids get to pay for this man's war on capitalism. :(
 

1989

Well-Known Member
Lol, 5 billion a month? Thats chump change when this President spent $800 billion with the stroke of a pen. Sad really that our grandkids get to pay for this man's war on capitalism. :(



I heard a nice quote today....And no TOS I didn't hear it on Fox...."You've probably heard you break it...You buy it. Obama broke this market...now he owns it." A war on capitalism is exactly what it is, and capital is the only thing to get us out. The market officially broke on 2/9/09 according to this guy. Not bad for the first 20 days in office.
 

diesel96

Well-Known Member
Now your party is doing the very same thing and like those red state lemmings, you are sitting there not uttering a word of objection based on the very principles you held during the Bush years. As it appears to me now, you are proving yourself nothing more than a party hack in the same manner that you accused others here of being for the other political side.

Long ago as an acne-faced kid without a clue, I read Atlas Shrugged one summer and became a true believer. The government was all bad, all that mattered was the individual’s right to market what they pleased at any price they wished and to make as much money as possible without any government interference. Nothing else mattered in a capitalistic system, the political parties were all the same, the existing ideologies were no different from one another, Left and Right, up and down, and white and black were all equal. But soon my acne cleared and I grew up. Sadly, Libertarians have not as yet made that transition.

We've lost a lot of capital since inaugeration. Lack of clarification by the admin. is the main reason (uncertainty)...Capital creates jobs...If we give tax brakes to the people who will hire people. Say that person hires 2 people, that is now 3 people working. 3 people bringing in tax revenue and not draining unimployment. And 3 people spending...Poor people don't create jobs.

Lack of communication or lack in confidence/clarity is only but a small part of the problem, but not why people are losing jobs left and right. This has been an on going self destruction of the market and the previous Adm sitting on their hands actually believing their economic idealogy and de-regulation would succeed. And now, in a month's time channeling your ire towards a democratic canidate that clean your parties clock and is now in power. I know it's hard to accept, but face it, the market dropped the ball.




I heard a nice quote today....And no TOS I didn't hear it on Fox...."You've probably heard you break it...You buy it. Obama broke this market...now he owns it." A war on capitalism is exactly what it is, and capital is the only thing to get us out. The market officially broke on 2/9/09 according to this guy. Not bad for the first 20 days in office.

If you actually subscibed to that I suggest you change the channel or switch AM talk radio stations....:rofl:
 
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