CHE?

[wkmac]

I just noticed in the video that Ted Kennedy not only placed his hand over his heart but he even faced the flag itself.

WOW! What a guy! He should be President on that action alone, RIGHT?

Is that how this all works. Edwards got it right as well so did you vote for him?

Cheryl,

We need a stirring icon bad just for me!



Richardson had this "Could we just get this crap over with!" look on his face.

LOL!

Where the BBQ at?

 

[wkmac]

Well the crowd cheered so I guess he got this right. I laughed like h3ll when I saw this on Drudge but then it turned to sadness when I realize these people cheering are voters too!

As the old saying goes, "we get the gov't we deserve!"

 

[wkmac]

OT Alert!

Pardon me but AV8, I see a trip to the Balkans in your future and it's to defend the establishment of a new muslim state against the evil Crusaders of Serbia. Congrats. Allah will be proud.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081203210907/http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/28264.html

 

[av8torntn]

OT Alert!

Pardon me but AV8, I see a trip to the Balkans in your future and it's to defend the establishment of a new muslim state against the evil Crusaders of Serbia. Congrats. Allah will be proud.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081203210907/http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/28264.html

Ok if you did not want to say why you brought those guys up you could just say that it had nothing to do with the thread. I suppose you also say that all federal law has criminal penalties for violation. It's all good. Are you now saying that he would make the best president because he blows his nose properly? It is odd that you say it is unknow that you are supposed to put your hand over your heart during the Anthem when every kid going through the military has to learn that and every person on that stage also seemed to know that as well. Oh wait a minute they did not do that when Jefferson and Washington were alive so it must not be the right thing to do today. Maybe Obama thinks he is 200 years old or something. Is that what you are saying?

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casec.../parts/a/chapters/3/sections/section_301.html

It does seem unusual that you would try and bring the Serbia thing into this thread. Maybe you could just wake up Washington or Jefferson and ask them if they protected Serbia when they were alive. Oh wait a minute that does not make sense either.

 

[Jones]

I know exactly what you mean. Checkout this thread for a perfect example with close attention especially to page 2.

http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/standing-up-to-the-aclu.124826/

Something about rocks and glass houses comes to mind!




$%@#%^#$$%*&(&^(

What'd you call me?

I actually thought it was an appropriate metaphor for the whole current events forum, you and av just happened to be the sweethearts-du-jour

 

[wkmac]

I actually thought it was an appropriate metaphor for the whole current events forum, you and av just happened to be the sweethearts-du-jour

Actually I was thinking about asking him out on a date, drive to a remote spot and pretend the car ran out of gas. Think it will work?

at the thought of the look on AV's face as he reads this!

 

[av8torntn]

OT Alert!

Pardon me but AV8, I see a trip to the Balkans in your future and it's to defend the establishment of a new muslim state against the evil Crusaders of Serbia. Congrats. Allah will be proud.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081203210907/http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/28264.html

Ok I'll bite why do you see this in my future?

 

[av8torntn]

Ok I suppose you really do not wish to share why you picked Jefferson and Washington.

I see where your position is that if a law has no criminal penalty than it is not really a law. You linked to a thread about separation of church and state. I was thinking we had a kid who was a high school class president join the Marines after graduation instead of going to college. He was killed by enemy fire in Iraq. They held his memorial service in they high school gym. It was televised on our local channels. They had a local preacher give the service and also say a prayer (oh the horror). Now if I follow your reasoning since there were no criminal penalties is prayer in school now legal?

Or is it only illegal if Jefferson or Washington are there?



Diesel was never on my mind! Hey didn't Willie Nelson do a song about that?
Just wondering why D were the first three letters in your post. I just misunderstood and thought you meant diesel.

I also still really wonder why you say you pick a military type and a limited government type to compare Obama to. Seems like they dont have very much in common to me but like I said before it was just my curiosity for asking not seeking debate.

I guess I better be packing since you see a Serbian vacation in my future and if I remember correctly it gets a little cold. They must really be desparate if they want my old, broken, and tired tail. I think the next fight we pick should be some like Hawaii.

 

[wkmac]

Ok I'll bite why do you see this in my future?

Well you are a soldier of the Empire and my guess is at some point we will re-enter the Balkans on a larger scale and I thought you'd want to volunteer to advance the nationstate!



It will be ironic that before Bush leaves the WH he could have to order troops into an area and conflict that he in fact campaigned against in 2000' when running against Gore. Now couple that with the fact that if either Hillary or Obama make the WH that they in turn will probably in the end have to continue a war that they campaigned at least on the surface against. Couple that with the fact that Hillary opened the door to warfare with Iran with Kyl-Liberman and with Obama, his adventures may be in Pakistan and Darfur.

I can't wait to watch the look on the antiwar/anti-empire democrat faces when that happens.

 

[wkmac]

Ok I suppose you really do not wish to share why you picked Jefferson and Washington.

See post #19 in this thread where you said quoting from post #18:

Nope I was wondering why you picked those two guys I know you had a reason. You could have probably found someone who had political desires like Obama who refused to do this also since this law has been enacted.

To which I responded:

I could have picked most any President before the whole salute/pledge became a part of the public display. I used Washington and Jefferson mostly as a starting point and in some sense a model of what would come so to speak.

My thinking was if this act of public display was so important to manifest loyality, patriotism and even love of country then why was it not in place with these 2 men who by most standing are held in almost iconic status by at the least the overwhelming majority of Ameircans. Even Washington, called the father of our country, and most kids want to be like dear ole' dad!

Now if you are looking for some other nefarious reasons then OK, see how this works for ya.

It is a secretly but genreally held belief amongst hardcore anarchist/antistate libertarians that the words Washington and Jefferson has a subiminal quality to them. Whenever we speak or write these words, it is scientifically held that the reader or person hearing those words become immediately a slave for thought transferance and we can endoctrinate the unwilling subject over time to become antistate automatrons. It's something we've taken great strides in hiding but you've managed to root us out!

OK, how's that work for ya? Feel better? Good! I'm glad to help!

I see where your position is that if a law has no criminal penalty than it is not really a law.

Yes, pretty much that's it. It's called an "un-enforcable law" because there's no effect to the cause. Picture this.

Hear Ye! Hear Ye! State verses WKMAC

Charge: Eating banana while walking to mailbox to retrieve mail.
How do you plead?

wkmac: Guilty has hell! (I love banana's)

I find you WKMAC Guilty of eating banana's while walking to the mailbox and the penalty is................. there is no penalty. Have a nice day. BTW: got an extra banana on ya?

So AV, what good is a law that has no sanction for when you violate it? I see that as if there is no law at all because there are no consequences when I violate it. I also believe in the legal premise that unless there is a victim, someone upon whom a force or fraud has been committed, no crime has truly been committed but that's JMO and should also explain my view of law itself.

That should open up a whole other can of worms!


You linked to a thread about separation of church and state.

You mean in post #20? Well that was messin' with Jonesy but go ahead.

I was thinking we had a kid who was a high school class president join the Marines after graduation instead of going to college. He was killed by enemy fire in Iraq. They held his memorial service in they high school gym. It was televised on our local channels. They had a local preacher give the service and also say a prayer (oh the horror). Now if I follow your reasoning since there were no criminal penalties is prayer in school now legal?

Has anyone outside the direct employ of the school or gov't been arrested for such an action? Now maybe so but to my knowledge I've yet to see one person outside any direct employ or mission of a school or gov't arrested for praying. In fact in my neck of the woods, schools in some cases allow churches to use their facilities on Sunday's. I myself attended such a church for a time back in the 80's until the church grew enough to buy their own building. For that fact, many schools in our area hold their graduating ceremonies in ome of the local churches because the school lacks a facility to house such an event. As of yet I've not heard a peep or anyone arrested.

Or is it only illegal if Jefferson or Washington are there?

Well unless you believe is a differnt concept of immortality of the soul or ghosts, that'd be kinda hard but if their pictures or any likeness of them are around, yes your point is exactly correct!



Diesel was never on my mind! Hey didn't Willie Nelson do a song about that?
Just wondering why D were the first three letters in your post. I just misunderstood and thought you meant diesel.

Oh you mean where I said this in post #8:

D

Just give it up! Take your logic and rational thinking and just go somewhere else!

If you'll notice just above that I had quoted Diesel so in that respect yes Diesel was on my mind as I was having some fun not so much at his expense but just a bit of humor in general. Now the part that followed after that was not directed at Diesel but was a general statement about the whole topic at hand and not directed at any one person. It was a personal observation and opinion in light of the discussion. Now if again you want the conspiracy theory angle then que the X-Files theme and I'm sure my warped sense of humor can come up with something!

I also still really wonder why you say you pick a military type and a limited government type to compare Obama to.

It was to totally confuse you and throw you off balance and see it worked!


Seems like they dont have very much in common to me but like I said before it was just my curiosity for asking not seeking debate.

I'm glad to hear that. I'm just not good enough to keep this up with you. You're too good!

I guess I better be packing since you see a Serbian vacation in my future and if I remember correctly it gets a little cold. They must really be desparate if they want my old, broken, and tired tail. I think the next fight we pick should be some like Hawaii.

It'll be Vermont as now they're threatening to secede!

 

[wkmac]

After commenting on school prayer, what is law and arrests I decided to just do a quick search in Yahoo using the following search criteria.

praying in school>arrests

and here's what I found as far as arrests go.

The first item was this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11768506

It concerns 20 gay acivists arrested for trespassing at Falwell's Liberty University. I think it's safe to say they weren't there to pray!


Down the list a bit I did find this where 7 christians were arrested for praying but they weren't in a school.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56544

Was this payback for the Liberty University thingy?

Lastly, the 4th item down was a ACLU booklet directed to Florida school students on their rights. On page 10 of the booklet (page 11 of the pdf file) Section 4 it covers religious rights including prayer and as a parent of 4 I completely concur with what they are saying on this matter.

http://www.aclufl.org/issues/students/StudentHandbook_FINAL.pdf

Until you can show me someone who stood or bowed on their own accord, prayed and then was arrested for such an act in a public school, this whole thing is hyperbole IMO. You show me where someone was arrested for such an act and I'm right there with ya all the way. Wanna lock and load? Hell, let's get er done! But until then, IMO the gov't whether we like it or not is acting acording to the spirit of the constitution and therefore I have no cause to object.

What you should be hammering is how they cherry pick what to follow and what not to follow as in many cases in other parts of the constitution they all but rape it IMO.

BTW: Here's the Yahoo page I pulled up in the search.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=praying+in+school%3Earrests&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

 

[av8torntn]

D,

Just give it up! Take your logic and rational thinking and just go somewhere else!

It's ashame we don't have pictures of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson when they were President showing Obama and the rest of us the proper way to stand and salute to the flag during the national anthem. I know they didn't have cameras and all and....uh.....hey wait a minute.........let me.....oh WOW, they didn't have a National Anthem to begin with. OMG! Or a pledge of alliegence! WHAT THE!

How in the world did they display their patriotism in public? OH MY, pledging to the flag is a 20th century invention so they didn't have such things at that time. How can that be? How could this country go 100 plus years and not only survive but grow in a mighty way without such things? How can they not have created objects and means for people to show everyone else that they are patriotic? Is this not a necessary thing and a must have to show you are patriotic and love your country?

You mean they spent all that time drafting documents like the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, the Mecklenburg Accords, Virginia Declaration of Rights or Speeches like "Give Me Liberty of Give Me Death" and finally even with it's flaws, the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights and in none of that, these men saw no reason or need to make up a pledge of alliegence, a national anthem and a ceremony of public display to respect the flag in order to show patriotic alliegnece? You mean at public gatherings they never started off by dooign such things because they had nothing to work with!


Why, what does that say about those men of that day?

wkmac

Did you ever feel like a man who came prepared to play chess but those all around only had the mental capacity at best to shoot marbles!

YO D! Hold the door man, as I'm coming with you. Grab a couple of brews from the fridge and I'll get the chessboard!

This is what I was asking about. I forgot the fits you throw when someone asks you a question. My apologies. Jeez

 

[wkmac]

This is what I was asking about. I forgot the fits you throw when someone asks you a question. My apologies. Jeez

Just making sure I answered every question or explaining every detail so you wouldn't have to ask another question. Just thinking of you and your best interest!

 

[av8torntn]

Just making sure I answered every question or explaining every detail so you wouldn't have to ask another question. Just thinking of you and your best interest!

So you just pick two guys from before there was a pledge and say these were good guys so now that there is a pledge and Obama does not recognize it or whatever it is he is doing he must be ok also?

 

[Jones]

So you just pick two guys from before there was a pledge and say these were good guys so now that there is a pledge and Obama does not recognize it or whatever it is he is doing he must be ok also?

Yeah, just a couple guys....named Washington and Jefferson...who cares what about them anyway ?

 

[av8torntn]

Yeah, just a couple guys....named Washington and Jefferson...who cares what about them anyway ?

Ok I take it you do not, but what was it that you two see that these guys have in common with B. Hussein Obama? I really guess i do not care that much I was just trying to keep an open mind about it but I just don't see it.

 

[wkmac]

Ok I take it you do not, but what was it that you two see that these guys have in common with B. Hussein Obama? I really guess i do not care that much I was just trying to keep an open mind about it but I just don't see it.

OH Now I get it! That's a real simple question to answer.

To restate for the record:

The Question:

but what was it that you two see that these guys have in common with B. Hussein Obama?

The Answer:

All 3 have never saluted the Flag during a National Anthem at Tom Harkin's Iowa Picnic!

Man, I'm glad we finally after all of that was finally able to clear that up!

 

[av8torntn]

OH Now I get it! That's a real simple question to answer.

To restate for the record:

The Question:

but what was it that you two see that these guys have in common with B. Hussein Obama?

The Answer:

All 3 have never saluted the Flag during a National Anthem at Tom Harkin's Iowa Picnic!

Man, I'm glad we finally after all of that was finally able to clear that up!

Wow now how simple was that? You do like taking the long road. But the question I had which now I really hate that I asked was why those two because I thought you had a reason. Heck you could have just pulled any name from before there was a pledge but you chose those two names. My apologies for even asking. If you did not want to answer or if you just picked two random names you could have said so instead of going through all this. I think that most people already know that our Government today is nothing like the Government they wanted. Anyway I see you are saying now that these are the only three people alive who would not put their hand over their heart at a political event. Oh wait thats not it all three are not alive.

I knew I should not have asked because I knew you would not answer but sometimes I just cannot help myself.

Just to make sure that I understand what you were saying it was nothing. Ok I'm sure glad I wasted all that time on it.

Maybe I was just hurt that you guys were drinking beer without me. Oh well I have my bags packed for the Balkans or Africa since you say I have to go to one I will pull for the Balkans. The Muslims in Africa may put up to much of a fight for me. I'll be in the corner shooting marbles waiting for Uncle Sam to give me the call.

 

[wkmac]

Wow now how simple was that? You do like taking the long road. But the question I had which now I really hate that I asked was why those two because I thought you had a reason. Heck you could have just pulled any name from before there was a pledge but you chose those two names. My apologies for even asking. If you did not want to answer or if you just picked two random names you could have said so instead of going through all this. I think that most people already know that our Government today is nothing like the Government they wanted. Anyway I see you are saying now that these are the only three people alive who would not put their hand over their heart at a political event. Oh wait thats not it all three are not alive.

I knew I should not have asked because I knew you would not answer but sometimes I just cannot help myself.

Just to make sure that I understand what you were saying it was nothing. Ok I'm sure glad I wasted all that time on it.

Maybe I was just hurt that you guys were drinking beer without me. Oh well I have my bags packed for the Balkans or Africa since you say I have to go to one I will pull for the Balkans. The Muslims in Africa may put up to much of a fight for me. I'll be in the corner shooting marbles waiting for Uncle Sam to give me the call.

Boy, this really has you all worked up. I'll have to make a note of this for future use!

 

[av8torntn]

Boy, this really has you all worked up. I'll have to make a note of this for future use!

That was what I was thinking of you.