Cherry picking for easy warning letters...

[dannyboy]

Corporate isn't the problem or the solution. Corporate designs the high level strategy, but it is the direct supervisor and manager who implement the process used. When a supervisor or a manager (or anyone else for that matter) states that it is some other person or entity that wants this done, I have a problem with that direct supervisor or manager. It shows weakness, lack of management skill set, and an inability to move your team without the threat of coercion.

Lifer, I am reminded by your post of my fathers youth.

The Germans came around 2AM to force my grandfather into the front fighting the Russians. HE could either go, or they would shoot him right there in front of his children.

My father, around 13 at the time, elected to go with his father, which the family quickly tried to overturn, but the "recruiters" snapped him up as well.

Never forget something he said. His military leaders lead by the edict of "you have one of two choices, you can either attack the enemy and be shot, or I will shoot you right here and now. With you attacking the enemy bare handed, you at least stand a chance, how ever slight, of running across no mans land, finding a weapon, and defending yourself. Here you have no chance."

After shooting a few kids to make his point, the rest ran to their deaths, or capture by the tens of thousands.

Great management skills on display.

While there are differences, the management skills advocated on this thread really dont inspire someone to greatness, now does it?

Those that do not learn from the past, are doomed to repeat the mistakes and outcomes.

Good post!

d

 

[tieguy]

I agree with both you and Red. I would like to thank Sober for starting this thread because it does highlight a number of areas that are important. Besides working safely, the management styles we have has always been an interest to me. I was always looking for ways to improve my managerial and leadership skills to make everyone's job safer and easier to do while following the core values of UPS.

The style of management that reflects using the hammer was always perceived by me to be the absolute least effective. This thread has nothing to do with those few people who will not do the job. For those few people, their job methods and processes may indicate a trend for the use of discipline. We are talking about "cherry picking" warning letters in this thread.

Management who defend and use this tactic can not earn my respect as a leader in this company. .... and they certainly will not earn the respect of their employees. These are probably the same people who blame someone else for why they do what they do. These people think they are sending a message to "get in line" or you will be gone. The message they are sending IMO is, "I don't know any other way to get this done other than to threaten you with your job." Is that the skill of a leader?

Corporate isn't the problem or the solution. Corporate designs the high level strategy, but it is the direct supervisor and manager who implement the process used. When a supervisor or a manager (or anyone else for that matter) states that it is some other person or entity that wants this done, I have a problem with that direct supervisor or manager. It shows weakness, lack of management skill set, and an inability to move your team without the threat of coercion.

I am still amazed the force is so strong with you and yet you left a manager.

I previously highlighted a mindset that had nothing to with my interpretation of some vague corporate policy.
I highlighted how there was a force dictating this mindset.
Despite your protests to the contrary there are region and district level leaders that are defining their own interpretation of this corporate policy.
Despite your protests to the contrary you yourself being the great independent leader could have been forced into actions you disagreed with and you quite often were. This you don't speak on.
Otherwise what you present is a nice trip down fantasy lane on how one manager ran the company from his level.

 

[tieguy]

As long as you beat the drivers over the head as the single method of teaching when it comes to safety, you have lost a golden opportunity to instill a lifetime desire to be safe. And the fact that the current mindset undercuts the efforts of the safety committee is a real shame.

I never disagreed with that point and this is what I'm referring to when I say you argue points I didn't make.

you did say that if they didn't follow instructions that they should get a warning letter.

I agreed with your point there.

So not sure why you're now trying to renegotiate a point we agreed on?

 

[trickpony1]

Danny-

I think there was an ol' boy by the name of Winston Churchill who said, something to the effect, "....those who forget the past are destined to repeat it.".

But then what could he have known..........

 

[tieguy]

Danny-

I think there was an ol' boy by the name of Winston Churchill who said, something to the effect, "....those who forget the past are destined to repeat it.".

But then what could he have known..........

same guy that always put out one of my favorite quotes that I try to live by:

A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.

 

[dannyboy]

A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.

Even if he does not agree with it? You yourself posted that you dont agree with it, but yet your focus on your personal consequences keeps you from standing against the dangers, pressures, and obstacles, and thus have lost the basis of all human morality in doing so. Yeild to the dark side.

So do what you must to salvage the job.

Tie, I agree that there is a time and place for warning letters. But the initial communications on a subject is not the place or time. And that is the whole point of this thread. The initial teaching tool being used should not be a warning letter.

All that does is cause resentment and other obstacles to a learning environment.

It also creates a false sense of accomplishment among managers, as the learning curve for drivers in this case is very low. Yes, you might show your attentiveness to a lack of compliance, but did you teach the drivers a damn thing except not to get caught?

d

 

[tieguy]

Even if he does not agree with it? You yourself posted that you dont agree with it, but yet your focus on your personal consequences keeps you from standing against the dangers, pressures, and obstacles, and thus have lost the basis of all human morality in doing so. Yeild to the dark side.

So do what you must to salvage the job.

Tie, I agree that there is a time and place for warning letters. But the initial communications on a subject is not the place or time. And that is the whole point of this thread. The initial teaching tool being used should not be a warning letter.

All that does is cause resentment and other obstacles to a learning environment.

It also creates a false sense of accomplishment among managers, as the learning curve for drivers in this case is very low. Yes, you might show your attentiveness to a lack of compliance, but did you teach the drivers a damn thing except not to get caught?

d

Reread it I didn't read that way. To me its about standing up for what you believe is right.

 

[dannyboy]

So your stand is to issue warning letters to drivers whom have never seen or been offered a chance to read the methods? All we get is the verbal few that the manager thinks we should have?, but yet you hold us responsible for all the methods? Why????

Reread it I didn't read that way. To me its about standing up for what you believe is right.

Thats because you quoted it as a support for your position. When you read it like I did, it condems you for your blind actions instead of standing up for what you really believe and know to be the best way.

There are far more ways to the top of the mountain than the path you have chosen, Grasshoppah. Choose wisely the bed you make this day, and the seeds you sow, as the harvest will not be what you expect.

d

 

[705red]

For the love of JESUS! This has been beat worse than a dead horse!!!!

Im calling for MERCY!!! And throwing in the towel.

 

[tieguy]

So your stand is to issue warning letters to drivers whom have never seen or been offered a chance to read the methods? All we get is the verbal few that the manager thinks we should have?, but yet you hold us responsible for all the methods? Why????
Thats because you quoted it as a support for your position. When you read it like I did, it condems you for your blind actions instead of standing up for what you really believe and know to be the best way.


I know you are standing up for what you think is the right way to approach the problem. I disagree.

There are far more ways to the top of the mountain than the path you have chosen, Grasshoppah. Choose wisely the bed you make this day, and the seeds you sow, as the harvest will not be what you expect.

Actually you made a stronger statement in support of beating people with warning letters then I did.

 

[tieguy]

Tie, I have stated and will state again, if the driver intentionally disregards instructions, you dont have a choice. Let the warning letter fly.

d

Ok then if we agree on that point why the debate?

Now whats next.

Do I wait for the driver to come into my office and violate a safety method or should I as a manager actually go out and verify that the driver is working safely.

If we agree that the manager or supervisor should go out and see if his people are following instructions then we have no argument?[/QUOTE]

Do you remember seeing this post? I'm still trying to figure out why you're still running with this after we agreed?

 

[dannyboy]

Im calling for MERCY!!! And throwing in the towel.

And just when tie was on the ropes? I am a pit bull when it comes to convictions.

Tie,

Do I wait for the driver to come into my office and violate a safety method or should I as a manager actually go out and verify that the driver is working safely.

If we agree that the manager or supervisor should go out and see if his people are following instructions then we have no argument?[/

Working safely........That is one aspect, but in the next sentence, you have following instructions. Two very basic things you choose to use interchangeably, but they are not necessarily the same things.

You can check to see if your people are working safe, no problem or question. But to issue warning letters for failure to follow safe work methods, that is another. The burden of proof falls to you as the sup to show that you have properly trained the driver in the actual aspect of the warning letter you gave.

I have posted several times, and you have chosen to ignore the fact that most drivers have never seen the methods. The only methods they have been exposed to is what the trainer chose to cover.

I for one was never ever trained in the "push pull" method of steering the package car. So what gives you the right to give someone like me a warning letter, when the fact remains you did not properly train me, nor gave me the methods so I could train myself. Instead, you choose to gloss over your lack of training skills with warning letters to appease the powers that be, and show them how much you really care, instead of properly training your people.

So that is what I am saying. The over use of warning letters, and the use of warning letters in this thread is not what they were intended for.

So if you take that as we agree, welcome to my way of thinking. If not, you are still on the wrong side of the tracks.

d

 

[fxdwg]

At what point do the insults, namecalling & personal attacks start, like on other threads (2727)?

 

[tonyexpress]

For the love of JESUS! This has been beat worse than a dead horse!!!!

Im calling for MERCY!!! And throwing in the towel.

I have to agree....LOCKED!!!!