Classic Upper Management Fail

westin

Well-Known Member
This whole FedEx succesfully getting away with cheap labor is really going to screw future Ups employees with our next contract next August. Ups and the Union will tussle over this for the next year. Ups will cry fowl, and successfully get concessions that will result in lower wages for all future employees. I will be the last generation of Ups middle class workers.
Its a shame cause I cant imagine doing this job, with all the missed family time, the permanent damage to our bodies, the stress of Ups's constant safety harassment (only UPS employees will understand that day to day ordeal- tuck your mirrors every stop, grab your hand rails in and out of pkg car, square your shoulders with your bulk head door when you shut it, blah blah blah) --That crap get so old and them using that as a dismissal tool.


I've never had an accident or workmans comp injury in 23 yrs and I feel like a 3yr old every time I have to cross the street to deliver a pkg. I realize we got some idiots but put all that crap on the ones who have demonstrated their inability to work safe and drive safe. Every time a sup rides with me, I go into ignore mode. Him talking safety for 10 straight hours is enough to make me want to hit a bridge head on just to shut him up.

So, cant imagine doing this job for anything less than I make now and I live check to check. One more class of middle America that soon will be no more!
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
And this is where I think the DRIVERS for UPS don't "get it".

When the market level wages are pushed down by Ground's operation, UPS MANAGEMENT isn't going to care. Their compensation won't change. They will merely draw a lower and lower line with each contract negotiation with the drivers.

The people that have the most to lose under this whole setup are the DRIVERS of UPS. They will eventually lose their middle class lifestyle. They will lose their retirement benefits eventually. They will lose their "gold plated" health insurance benefits eventually. UPS Management will still keep all of their perks and benefits - it is the wage employees of UPS that will lose the most should the Ground model continue to grow like it has been (49 straight quarters of gaining market share from UPS - according to Fred).

In another 12 years (48 quarters), Ground will most likely overtake UPS in volume should the current rates of growth be maintained.

The UPS drivers (and their union....) have a real stake in what is happening; but the IBT is sitting on their hands right now not doing a damn thing (well, they did try to organize the handlers in a Ground terminal in MA - didn't turn out too well for them).

If I was a UPS driver, I'd be screaming at my union to do something about what is going on within FedEx - because if they don't, I (if I were a UPS driver), wouldn't have nearly the same compensation 10-15 years from now, that I (were I a driver for UPS) have now.
 

Glorifiedpackmule

Well-Known Member
Fred S and his Minions are single handedly driving the cost of labor down for all middle class couriers and drivers. What was once considered a career is now just a job for Express employees. UPS will be next unless the teamsters get more involved. Express couriers saw the writing on the walls years ago. We knew it was coming. Unfortunately for us, we did nothing about it. Maybe there wasn't much we could do. It's hard to organize with your boss paying off politicians left and right to keep you from doing it.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
What happens at the end of the year when these drivers realize that no taxes have been taken out or do you take taxes out? Or are they subcontractors of you- the subcontractor, who is responsible for his own tax deductions?
Why would I not take out taxes?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Go for it! I just wish FedEx would offer a buyout to clear us out. I do find it ironic that you point out MFE wants it both ways when you criticize the Republicans being in bed with big business and yet your fortune rises and falls with one of the biggest, most ruthless corporations out there. But I'm totally sincere about you guys taking over. No matter how much we scream about it FedEx is going to do what they want. If I'm never going to do better then I'm for damn sure not going to kill myself for their benefit. So have at it, wish you well, I'm on cruise control.
Believe me, van, the irony of my position is not lost on me as it seems to be on you. I wish things were different and would vote for a party that is concerned with the middle class. You and R1a on the other hand, bemoan the state of things and yet your politics are EXACTLY what puts Fred S in the position he is in. Over and over you will maintain the tired old status quo trickle down economics that trickles from the top to the top's swiss bank account. There is no way this system will do anything but destroy the middle class. I'm a realist. For now, the country has been pulled so far right that a great number of Americans will buy into a ridiculous mantra of calling Obama a socialist. That of course is a matter for another thread, but whatever. I, like Mitt Romney am not going to apologize for my success but I will thank Express for the coming increase because I do realize, like the president says, I didn't build that.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
FedEx Ground and UPS offer a much closer comparison to each other than FedEx Express. Express is a different beast all together. Do Express employee's deserve to earn 33 dollars an hour for the work we do? No..probably not. Are most of us fairly compensated for what we do now and the crap we put up with? No. My question for FedEx contractors is.. How do you sleep at night knowing that your employees are being compensated somewhere in the neighborhood of 55,000 dollars less a year than the average UPS Driver for the same job?
I sleep very well, thank-you.
 

Nick9075

Well-Known Member
Believe me, van, the irony of my position is not lost on me as it seems to be on you. I wish things were different and would vote for a party that is concerned with the middle class. You and R1a on the other hand, bemoan the state of things and yet your politics are EXACTLY what puts Fred S in the position he is in. Over and over you will maintain the tired old status quo trickle down economics that trickles from the top to the top's swiss bank account. There is no way this system will do anything but destroy the middle class. I'm a realist. For now, the country has been pulled so far right that a great number of Americans will buy into a ridiculous mantra of calling Obama a socialist. That of course is a matter for another thread, but whatever. I, like Mitt Romney am not going to apologize for my success but I will thank Express for the coming increase because I do realize, like the president says, I didn't build that.

I don't see that in the NYC area (being pulled 'so far right'). The pay is also what the market will bear. In NYC, unemployment rate is 10% -- even as thousands of jobs are being added every month.. It isn't hard to find drivers for $700 a week
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I don't see that in the NYC area (being pulled 'so far right'). The pay is also what the market will bear. In NYC, unemployment rate is 10% -- even as thousands of jobs are being added every month.. It isn't hard to find drivers for $700 a week

C'mon Nick. Step outside NYC. 700/wk in NYC is slavve wages. Midwest is far different.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
And I would contend that any country in which Obamacare is routinely called socialism, the political climate leans prettty hard right.
 

Bailey4

Well-Known Member
I am not a ground driver but ground drivers did try to sue fedex over it's unfair practices but they were snuffed out by fred's political money connections. We at express were snuffed out by fred's politics as well when he won the ability to keep us wedged under the railway act. Even, UPS with their money, could not stop him from finding a way around the current employment laws. We should all be outraged. The Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers managed to unionize in spite of the railway act. When October arrives, if enough of the express drivers pull the wool off their eyes, maybe we can find a way to unionize. I do think Mr. Fedex is right with regard about things reaching a boiling point within ground. I imagine fedex be bringing a good deal more headaches to the workers of ground then they can imagine as the plan moves forward.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Believe me, van, the irony of my position is not lost on me as it seems to be on you. I wish things were different and would vote for a party that is concerned with the middle class. You and R1a on the other hand, bemoan the state of things and yet your politics are EXACTLY what puts Fred S in the position he is in. Over and over you will maintain the tired old status quo trickle down economics that trickles from the top to the top's swiss bank account. There is no way this system will do anything but destroy the middle class. I'm a realist. For now, the country has been pulled so far right that a great number of Americans will buy into a ridiculous mantra of calling Obama a socialist. That of course is a matter for another thread, but whatever. I, like Mitt Romney am not going to apologize for my success but I will thank Express for the coming increase because I do realize, like the president says, I didn't build that.

No lost irony here either. The Republicans/Big Business want their employees to accept less and less while the relative few live very to extremely well. The Democrats want to tax and tax to spread around the wealth to their constituencies to keep the votes coming their way. The regular working guy gets caught in the middle of that one. His Repub bosses pass the tax cost to him, and while he's working for less his tax dollars are supporting many able bodied people who are gaming the system with the Democrats' blessing. Your average working guy gets screwed no matter what. Unionize? MIGHT bring short term gains. Depends on the industry. If the employer bolts it's the working guy who gets screwed. The difference between the two major philosophies is that while it sucks for the average guy the lean-and-mean Republican model is sustainable. The tax and spend Democrat model isn't.

Business should be about bringing goods and services to market that the buying public wants and/or needs. But today it's been poisoned by execs wanting to cash in with their stock. The biggest traders of that stock are the big funds that manage 401k's. They are in league with corporate leaders, are the biggest reason employees are looking at such a bleak future. Until people divest themselves from their 401k's this will continue. But people have been convinced that their 401k is a sure road to riches. If you can't fund it properly it isn't, and there are no guarantees if you can. If millions would just stand up and say no more contributions until we get a fair shake we could make a difference. Not going to happen, and we are literally screwing ourselves.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Since we both understand the irony of our positions, I trust that you understand my reluctance to remove myself from the position in life I find myself. I still think you are wrong in your portrayal of democrats as "tax and spend liberals", but you are free to vote your future. In the republican world view of the future, I am the middle class and that does not speak well for any driver of any delivery company for decades to come.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
No, but I will happily degrade and ridicule the Ground workers who are about to steal my living out from under me.

Replace "Ground" with "black" and you have a decent summary of many American labor grumbles from Reconstruction up until the 1970's in the northern part of the country.

Replace "Ground workers" with "machines" and you have a decent summary of many American labor grumbles since the industrial revolution.

There's always something or someone that will get the job done cheaper in just about every line of work.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Replace "Ground" with "black" and you have a decent summary of many American labor grumbles from Reconstruction up until the 1970's in the northern part of the country.

Replace "Ground workers" with "machines" and you have a decent summary of many American labor grumbles since the industrial revolution.

There's always something or someone that will get the job done cheaper in just about every line of work.

I don't think so. Your comparison is idiotic.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
To make another comparison, a UPS driver doing essentially the same work, is paid around $30/hr.

A guy in the NBA who shoots at the same 10' goal, from the same 3 point line, from the same free throw line, on the same 94' court as I do gets paid just a hair under a half million dollars.

I didn't sign up with the NBA and the Ground guy didn't sign up with UPS.
 

59 Dano

I just want to make friends!
It's obvious to see why the Ground "scam" is done the way it is.

If the Ground drivers WERE employees of Ground, just how long do you think it would take them to organize - given the above disparity in compensation?

One wouldn't need to use a calendar to measure how long it would take them to organize, it would only need something between using a wrist watch and a stop watch...


Ground drivers can organize against their respective ISP guys/route owners. Bbsam's guys can organize against him, should they choose. Just think, a guy with 5 drivers is in a world of hurt if 3 of them want union representation.

To those of you with a wedge up your butt over Ground, your best bet is to get Ground drivers to organize in that manner. Just saying.
 
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