coming soon to a center near you...ODS-E

[JustTired]

its not necessarily the pas sups. when they are told to cut out 2 cars at 730, what the heck are they suppose to do. We are really doing our more important customers a disservice when we are delivering their packages one day at 10 and the next at 3. They focus so much on pickup times being in range, hey how about deliveries too...this is where we have an advantage against fedex and right now its being put to waste. If the bean counters cared about the customer as much as the drivers do, fedex would be out of business. maybe the bean counters could put the brainpower into finding ways to retain, and grow the business, instead of cutting back on drivers to properly retain and grow the business.

I don't disagree with you. In fact, I wholeheartedly agree with you. That doesn't bely the fact that there are dispatch sups out there that don't know the hole from an in the ground. They take a bad business decision and make it worse. I think even P-man will agree with that.

That position calls for a person who is of higher than average intelligence, can learn the system and wants to learn the system. Right now, at least in most cases from what I can tell, these people are in short supply. I don't know how many centers there are nationwide. But it will take that many dispatch sups with the qualities listed above to make this system even come close to working as advertised. After all.....a system is only as good as the people who operate it.

 

[1989]

its not necessarily the pas sups. when they are told to cut out 2 cars at 730, what the heck are they suppose to do. We are really doing our more important customers a disservice when we are delivering their packages one day at 10 and the next at 3. They focus so much on pickup times being in range, hey how about deliveries too...this is where we have an advantage against fedex and right now its being put to waste. If the bean counters cared about the customer as much as the drivers do, fedex would be out of business. maybe the bean counters could put the brainpower into finding ways to retain, and grow the business, instead of cutting back on drivers to properly retain and grow the business.

Who does UPS work for? The customer, right? Then who is the customer? The shipper not the consignee. Although in some cases the shipper and the consignee are one in the same. There is no reason to have a consistant delivery time for the corner beauty salon or the census bureau who are not ups customers. Besides many of the big ups customers do have their own delivery times.

 

[Coldworld]

Who does UPS work for? The customer, right? Then who is the customer? The shipper not the consignee. Although in some cases the shipper and the consignee are one in the same. There is no reason to have a consistant delivery time for the corner beauty salon or the census bureau who are not ups customers. Besides many of the big ups customers do have their own delivery times.

thats why I said many, not all. many of our larger customers are complaining right now. customers are starting to take notice, like it or not. ups isnt playing this advantage as well as they could. ssi was a big idea a few years ago, but it seems to have fizzled, great idea in theory, but should have been available for many more customers than actually used the service.

 

[Coldworld]

I don't disagree with you. In fact, I wholeheartedly agree with you. That doesn't bely the fact that there are dispatch sups out there that don't know the hole from an in the ground. They take a bad business decision and make it worse. I think even P-man will agree with that.

That position calls for a person who is of higher than average intelligence, can learn the system and wants to learn the system. Right now, at least in most cases from what I can tell, these people are in short supply. I don't know how many centers there are nationwide. But it will take that many dispatch sups with the qualities listed above to make this system even come close to working as advertised. After all.....a system is only as good as the people who operate it.

yes I totally agree with you tired. It sounds like a very complicated system..for sure, but it works best when you know that you can run a certain amount of cars and then leave it alone, heck with this making 30, or 40 stop cuts at the last minute, that is what killing things right now. Also, it helps for someone who knows the areas, they know what can be cut and what cant, enough for these "pocket" dispatches..which isnt something that ups wants...overlaping routes, extra gas, totally not efficient . even with edd some routes still arent "fluid".

 

[JustTired]

yes I totally agree with you tired. It sounds like a very complicated system..for sure, but it works best when you know that you can run a certain amount of cars and then leave it alone, heck with this making 30, or 40 stop cuts at the last minute, that is what killing things right now. Also, it helps for someone who knows the areas, they know what can be cut and what cant, enough for these "pocket" dispatches..which isnt something that ups wants...overlaping routes, extra gas, totally not efficient . even with edd some routes still arent "fluid".

I'm not here to defend the system. I've always said that in theory it probably isn't a bad concept.

If you're going to spend millions on such a system, there should be a commitment by the company to implement the system properly and to staff it with knowledgeable people. To date, I've seen neither. What I have seen is a system that was haphazardly rushed into service and then staffed by some that don't have the brains God gave a screwdriver.

I guess I don't understand the concept. But I do live the end result.

 

[Coldworld]

I'm not here to defend the system. I've always said that in theory it probably isn't a bad concept.

If you're going to spend millions on such a system, there should be a commitment by the company to implement the system properly and to staff it with knowledgeable people. To date, I've seen neither. What I have seen is a system that was haphazardly rushed into service and then staffed by some that don't have the brains God gave a screwdriver.

I guess I don't understand the concept. But I do live the end result.

I really doubt any of our competition even want to spend money on a system like this...seems like a waste of money, but you know, they are too broke to get rid of the non power cars, but wealthy enough to get the technology to be able to get rid of their employees...nice!

 

[trplnkl]

When this new system was explained to us, we were told about 2 primary goals of the system.
I have said before and will say again. I do not know to what level you have risen, but I assure you there are things your boss knows that he/she will never share with you. There are things that his/her boss will never share with them etc etc. You can't let little things "slip" that you don't know.

First, reduce text messages to drivers. Use this system to know the current status of service, stops, etc. and don't waste drivers (and OMS') time gathering this information.

Second, reduce the number of rejected ODS events. If the OMS can see where each driver is, what they've already completed, (and in PAS sites what they have left to do), they can make better decisions on which driver should service an on call pickup.

We are tracking these two elements, and so far, they are improving.
So you are saying you believe that this multi-million dollar system was designed and implemented to fix these two problems? Were these two problems costing UPS that much revenue? Sorry, I find that very hard to believe.

There were a few additional goals explained:
- Help the local sort know when drivers are returning and how much volume they have
- Better set up customer meets
- Better communicate to customers when a driver would service them
I have never imagined that these are daily concerns that could not have been fixed with common sense dispatching and a little forethought. Until UPS became obsessed with squeezing "blood from a turnip" drivers could work a 9 to 9.5 day and go home with enough strength left to mow the lawn. Until the company became micromanagement oriented most customers were serviced within a 30 minute window( I used to have consignees tell me they could tell how long till lunch or to quiting time it was because I was there). Now with the cuts and re dispatches it rarely happens.

No one asked us to use this system to micromanage.
For many managers, no one had to ask them to breath either.

That being said, I'm certain that some center somewhere will use this system improperly.
That being said, I'm certain that many centers many places will use this system improperly.
I'm also certain that somewher, it will point out a driver doing something improper.
You can bet your sweet bippy that many a manager heard a "CHACHING" in their head when they found out the applicabilities of this system

I believe that the vast majority of our drivers are good and honest. I also believe that the vast majority of our management is good and honest.

This is designed for that majority of people.
The same could be said for the repeating rifle and just look at how many have abused that.
My question is: If this system is not designed for micromanagement and/or harassment, will there be consequences for those that abuse the system?
More is coming after this with the intent of only helping.
Ahhh, another question. Helping in what ways?
Look P-Man, I am not accusing you of any wrong doing. I feel that you are sincere in your statements and you fully believe them to be the truth. I also believe that you may not be giving enough cautious thought into the possible mis applications of the technology that UPS is pouring so much money into. I believe there is way more to this than meets the eye.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

Trpl:

There is nothing I could say but to repost what I wrote.

I attended the meetings and heard about this system for years. The message was the same from the beginning.

You seem to believe what you want regardless of what I say.

I appreciate you not saying that you think I'm lying. Instead you say that there is some hidden agenda that I'm not aware of.

I talk with my boss every day. I regularly talk with the corporate guys that work on these systems and on occaision, I've been in meetings discussing what things the business needs from technology. If these people have a hidden agenda, they deserve an oscar because they're not letting that on.

BTW, here is what's coming:
- They will update your EDD manifest while you're on road. If another driver scans a package that EDD thinks is on your car, they will take it out of your EDD. The same would happen if the package is found as left in building.
- They will also update your manifest if a customer asks for an intercept but you've already left the building.

In addition, a different system is being tested (and mentioned in another thread) that will monitor your safety and on road decisions. There is no question that that one is designed to look for safety concerns and excess miles (like going off area). Its being tested with 1500 drivers now.

Now you have more information. Its the same information I have. You can choose to use it or ignore it. That's your call.

P-Man

 

[Coldworld]

Trpl:

There is nothing I could say but to repost what I wrote.

I attended the meetings and heard about this system for years. The message was the same from the beginning.

You seem to believe what you want regardless of what I say.

I appreciate you not saying that you think I'm lying. Instead you say that there is some hidden agenda that I'm not aware of.

I talk with my boss every day. I regularly talk with the corporate guys that work on these systems and on occaision, I've been in meetings discussing what things the business needs from technology. If these people have a hidden agenda, they deserve an oscar because they're not letting that on.

BTW, here is what's coming:
- They will update your EDD manifest while you're on road. If another driver scans a package that EDD thinks is on your car, they will take it out of your EDD. The same would happen if the package is found as left in building.
- They will also update your manifest if a customer asks for an intercept but you've already left the building.

In addition, a different system is being tested (and mentioned in another thread) that will monitor your safety and on road decisions. There is no question that that one is designed to look for safety concerns and excess miles (like going off area). Its being tested with 1500 drivers now.

Now you have more information. Its the same information I have. You can choose to use it or ignore it. That's your call.

P-Man

I really wonder how many of todays drivers actually go off area, probably not many. And the main thing about the miles issue is at least what I see the excess miles is because of absolutely horrible loop dispatch, its ridiculous that this kind of technology cant wait until the routes are near perfect and there are no pocket dispatching and jumping over delivering in each other loops. the edd system was suppose to have loops that would be somewhat fluid, but at least for me, havent seen any of this....then there is also the issue of leveling work...especially the bulky stuff. Its not right that one guy has a 1200 with 1 whole empty shelf and then joe blow has a 700 filled from top to bottom, there is no allowance that will ever help a route like that. This kind of stuff takes baby steps, just dont jump in head first into the empty pool.Why not try to get the drivers involved in these things also, but that really never seems to happen...no wonder everyone is so freaky when it comes to this kind of technology.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

pman
As I have told you before you live in some kind of fantasyland, it would seem that if you read the posts here you should be getting an idea of reality.

 

[upsdude]

P-man.......... I find your info to be very valuable. I wish you could jerk a knot in our PDS sups, well, you know what.

 

[flyinpenguin]

Our center has said that the goal is 5 or less ODS messages per driver per day, reduce the amount of send agains (I have heard of drivers getting an ODS message once they hit about 6 or 7), and reduce the amount of OCA rejects because they can look at a map in real time and know exactly where you are.

 

[MonavieLeaker]

i understand that the ups truck isn't my home...its just ups making their job easier...and its part of the job. thats fine. i just know that they will use this technology to "cherry-pick" me for help when i have busted my butt for 8 hours and am nearing completion of my route. i enjoy the work as much as the next guy but i have other stuff to worry about than staying out over 9.5 every night because ups needs their packages delivered.

Thats why theres a Over 9.5 Opt In/Opt Out list

 

[pretzel_man]

pman
As I have told you before you live in some kind of fantasyland, it would seem that if you read the posts here you should be getting an idea of reality.

We all see things from our own perspective.

You see only your route or center. I've seen hundreds of centers. Its not the same everywhere.

There are lots of centers that are not doing well. There are many, many that are properly using the systems.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

Our center has said that the goal is 5 or less ODS messages per driver per day, reduce the amount of send agains (I have heard of drivers getting an ODS message once they hit about 6 or 7), and reduce the amount of OCA rejects because they can look at a map in real time and know exactly where you are.

Pretty much the same information I got. We are trying to reduce our text messages by about 50%. Same for ODS rejects.

If this can happen, its better for the OMS and driver.

How much do you think a text message costs? If you add up the cellular communication cost, plus the drivers' time, its a lot.

If we can reduce from 9 per day to 4 or 5 times 60,000 drivers I think lots of benefits are produced.


P-Man

 

[soberups]

They focus so much on pickup times being in range, hey how about deliveries too...this is where we have an advantage against fedex and right now its being put to waste....

A simple fact that often gets overlooked....is that we are not paid to deliver packages, we are paid to pick them up. The "bean counters" number one priority will ALWAYS be to make service on the pickups, because that is where the revenue comes from.
We dispatch about 200 routes out of a building that was theoretically designed for 120 routes and was not even adequate for that. I.E. will NOT enlarge the building as long as it is capable of unloading and sorting the pickup volume it brings in. As far as the delivery end of things? Tough shiite, they will continue putting up tents and jury-rigging MDU's and temporary load platforms, out in the rain if necessary, to get the cars loaded for delivery. Pickups are all that matter.

 

[JustTired]

Who does UPS work for? The customer, right? Then who is the customer? The shipper not the consignee. Although in some cases the shipper and the consignee are one in the same. There is no reason to have a consistant delivery time for the corner beauty salon or the census bureau who are not ups customers. Besides many of the big ups customers do have their own delivery times.

I don't know your position with the company, but I'm guessing it is on the management side by your comments.

I don't really believe we "work for" either. Or maybe we work for both. But , having said that , I make no distinction between the words "customer and consignee". They are all customers as far as I'm concerned. Let's face it. Without a consignee, we won't be picking up or delivering anything. They are as much, if not more, our customer than the one actually shipping it.

Someone orders something and expects it to be delivered to their door in a decent condition. They generally expect the shipper to decide what company is appropriate to accomplish this. In turn, the shipper tasks us to do the job and has the same expectations as the person actually receiving the item. If the person receiving the item is unhappy, it's more than likely that the shipper will be unhappy also.

That seems to be the major difference in perspective between the delivery driver and management. The delivery driver sees the delivery and pickup point as the customer, while most management sees only the shipper as the customer. At least that's the perspective I get.

 

[pretzel_man]

I think that Corporate is finally understanding what our drivers have known forever. Consignees are important!!

I hear them talking a lot about "consignee pull". Its the understanding that while shippers are sending UPS the money, consignees make many of the shipping decisions.

Look at some of the changes that have happened in the last few years.
- Quantum View
- Combined / scheduled delivery
- Special commit times for certain customers

These were designed to service the consignee. The list is not large because its not easy to do.

Consignee pull is something they talk about a lot now. I guess we'll see what comes of it.

P-Man

 

[Coldworld]

A simple fact that often gets overlooked....is that we are not paid to deliver packages, we are paid to pick them up. The "bean counters" number one priority will ALWAYS be to make service on the pickups, because that is where the revenue comes from.
We dispatch about 200 routes out of a building that was theoretically designed for 120 routes and was not even adequate for that. I.E. will NOT enlarge the building as long as it is capable of unloading and sorting the pickup volume it brings in. As far as the delivery end of things? Tough shiite, they will continue putting up tents and jury-rigging MDU's and temporary load platforms, out in the rain if necessary, to get the cars loaded for delivery. Pickups are all that matter.

true, but if the larger pickups start to complain that they are getting deliveries 3 hours later someone better start to change things away or customers could go bye bye.

 

[1989]

I don't know your position with the company, but I'm guessing it is on the management side by your comments.

I don't really believe we "work for" either. Or maybe we work for both. But , having said that , I make no distinction between the words "customer and consignee". They are all customers as far as I'm concerned. Let's face it. Without a consignee, we won't be picking up or delivering anything. They are as much, if not more, our customer than the one actually shipping it.

Someone orders something and expects it to be delivered to their door in a decent condition. They generally expect the shipper to decide what company is appropriate to accomplish this. In turn, the shipper tasks us to do the job and has the same expectations as the person actually receiving the item. If the person receiving the item is unhappy, it's more than likely that the shipper will be unhappy also.

That seems to be the major difference in perspective between the delivery driver and management. The delivery driver sees the delivery and pickup point as the customer, while most management sees only the shipper as the customer. At least that's the perspective I get.

Granted without the consignee there would not be a shipper. It is not feasible to deliver every stop at the same time everyday. You must be flexible as a driver.

If you expect to be at all your businesses at the same time everyday you lose that flexibility and the customer will suffer. A flexible driver will serve the customer with few exceptions. All I am saying is if you work smart the customer will be taken care of.