Concern for the future

siouxman

siouxman
I think this really sums it up! Well said!!

All the doom and gloom in this thread just makes me sick. Nothing but complaining and management bashing.

When there are people struggling to make ends meet there are folks on this thread who are living well and get 7 weeks plus time off and make over $40 an hour overtime NOT COUNTING BENEFITS!

Stop your complaining and do something about it!!! Go out there and make a positive difference.

The biggest complainers and whiners are the ones that will do the least to go out and fix the problem!

I joined management in 1979 because I thought I could make a difference. I really, really feel I accomplished that goal.

Take some responsibility --> go out and make a difference. Like the 1st poster said...if the ship has sailed go to the bridge and and help steer it in the right direction. If you don't like that idea ... hold your nose and jump overboard!
I have worked at ups for 25 yrs and I have to agree with the majority of the posters. The front line managers have no say in what goes on in my center. the center manager tells them whats to be done for the week and thats what they do.We take the eri survey every year and the same questions get the same responses and nothing is done .You can not voice your opion or give suggestions because they dont want to hear it or they dont care.I had the same attitude you had , to go out and make a difference everyday. I try to with my customers but im managements customer and they need to work on better customer relations
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
I have to admit I couldn't follow your response on that one. The poster spoke of gratitude and taking pride in your work. How did you equate that to him crossing a picket line?
I do take pride in my job, I work hard for my pay. I also have a contract that I believe in. I have the right to file 9.5 grievances. I have the right to request 8 hr days. I have the right to a workplace free of harrassment and the "teamster baby" comment was just another version of harrassment from someone who seems to not agree with my rights. I hear this kind of **** at work all the time coming from bought and paid for company "drivers", the ones that would and have crossed in the name of money. If you gave me neg rep points because of my comment let me clear something up. I DON"T CARE. I don't see any replies from Stillcare about my comment. If I offended Stillcare then that would be between us. If I offended you then I apologize but for what I'm not sure.
 
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Bozo Bob

Member
What we're seeing is the aftermath of "I.E. Gone Wild". Six years of I.E. control of the company will take it's toll for many years to come. And there are enough of them still on the Management Committee for the problem to continue for a while yet. Back in the mid 90s when they had the big I.E. purge all their losers were scattered around other departments. They're still doing the kind of things that got them purged in the first place. The company is run by people who don't know what they are doing. Sales is run by an operations guy with no sales experience. The CFO is an I.E. castoff. The CIO and most of his staff are bean-counters. The head of Marketing is another I.E. castoff. In Operations under Cal I, Cal II and Jim, "diversity", aka being black, is the only way to advance. Qualifications and ability don't figure in at all. The corporate office is full of boot lickers who are afraid to make a decision. UPS is a company that is afraid to prune the dead wood. Dead wood just gets shuffled around constantly, staying on the payroll. I don't see anything on the horizon that's going to change any of this. The people who caused the problems or their proteges are still in control.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Lifer, you usually have some pretty good posts that ring true to life. Your standard has slipped on this one a little, IMO.
Your assessment that people should "Go out there and make a positive difference." is filled with holes. The only difference a driver can make is to stretch the limits of their personal efforts to encourage UP$ to keep piling more and more on them. Just how is a driver, in your opinion, supposed to make a positive difference?

trpinkl,

Here is my point about complaining, bashing, and making a difference and how to do it.

We are all human beings and have our ups and downs our good days and bad... What we fail to do sometimes is to take responsibility. We tend to shift the responsibility to someone else and rationalize it away. I did not allow my bosses to control what was in my power to control.

I can't believe that I was the only person out there that had reasonable bosses. I ran hubs and centers and understand the rationale of both.

If my boss told me that my drivers could not work over 9.5 and I had to put a certain number of stops per car out there.... then I found a way to do it without killing my drivers. This is my responsibility.

If I gave up who would lose??? You (the driver) loses. It boils down to communication. If I did not succeed in what my boss asks for than he/she would either micro-manage me or get rid of me. Neither one of those choices was EVER an option.

As a driver (or any employee including mgmt), you can't say "it' is not in your power". You need to find out the best way to sit down and talk with your boss and get a rapport going. It is in your best interest to do this. The more you talk, the more you will understand each other and what is important and why it is important. You may even want to do this in stages.

If there is no trust or communication - find someone who you mutually respect or trust and arrange a get together. Try to do it off the job. This will keep things on a balanced playing field and help to keep the fence down on both sides. Find out what you both have in common. Find out where the right button is to push. Once you have established a rapport, work on getting things fixed in your center.

How about establishing a driver ERI committee with a management sponsor. You guys meet on the clock and work on one problem at a time. If your management team balks at this go to the HR dept and get support from your ER Manager.

Establish this just like a Safety Committee.... Come up with a list of concerns. Then discuss the concerns. Come to a consensus as a group as to ONE problem that is easily fixed and has high importance. Then keep working down the list - get solutions going on both sides of the grid (mgmt and non-mgmt).

If this doesn't work go up the ladder to the next boss and ask for help. Utilize HR - your division mgr - who ever it takes. Take the approach that if it fails - YOU FAIL and that is not an option!!!

I am telling you that if you take this approach and you are reasonable in your concerns and are willing to take responsibility, someone in "power" will step forward to offer support and ensure you move forward.

This does take effort on your part! But NOTHING that is important to us comes without effort or sacrifice.

Remember this: To win the war you have to win one battle at a time.

Why do I care? Why do you think I took the name lifer? I am actually on a trip right now in Maui. The Daytona 500 is on and I am writing this post instead of sitting at the pool or bar watching the race! You may think that is crazy but I think it shows I care. I did the same kind of stuff when I was working on Friday nights, my door was open if you needed it to be.

Good luck! I really do want you to be successful. No one can convince me that one person can not make a difference. It's just knowing how.
 

Brown Dog

Brown since 81
UPSlifer, You have a great attitude, I agree with many of the things you say. I wish you had been at my center. I do try to keep a positive attitude and make the best of the situation. But in all honesty, out of the 12 center managers I've worked under, less than 50% were honest with me. I try to be a straight shooter, what you see is what you get. Many of my supervisors have said one thing to my face and something else to others. That is hard to deal with. I have a hard time talking/dealing with someone that is dishonest. I would just as soon never see their lying ass again, unfortunately, that's not the way it works. IMO many of the mgmt people I see are just passing through, trying to work there way up the company ladder and are willing to throw anyone under the bus on their way. I have had some very good bosses ie..honest, concerned, diligent, trustworthy and I would go above and beyond for them. For many of the others, not so much. I know they are under alot of pressure, we're ALL under alot of pressure. The people I work with, I treat with the same respect as they treat me. I hope you are enjoying your vacation, you've earned it. I bet alot of your former coworkers really miss you. YOU ARE a voice of reason:peaceful: I would love to share a Mai Tai with you someday.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Sick & tired of some of you Teamster babies. I know....here's an idea.....if you dont like it quit! There are may other hard workers out there that I'm sure would jump at the opportunity to work in your place. Do you have a college education or a trade perfection?....maybe so....but if not--quit and see what's out there for income. Maybe then you will be a little more grateful for what you have!
I have seen the good & bad with UPS ( 21 year UPSer) It is still a great company to work for & I am still very proud to say I work for UPS. What ever happened to a work ethic or a hard days pay for a hard days work? I know...arrive at work-punch in -smile -- like what you do & take pride--arrive back--punch out--go home. Pretty simple concept to me!
Alot of us do take pride in doing our jobs, and i remember when i was ptime and looking for a fulltime job. It didnt matter were i applied once they saw that i worked for ups i was offered the job on the spot. Now we dont have that same reputation and can you tell me why? Is it because any union employee that voices their concerns is a teamster cry baby? Or is it because drivers like yourself like to load your truck for free in the morning allowing your preloader to slack off because he knows you wil be in there shortly?

I believe that the ptimers see how disgruntle the drivers are now compared to when i was ptime, i couldnt wait to go driving. But i guess again in your eyes its the teamsters that are destroying this company and of course management has none of the blame. When you register on here make your user name ME, ME, ME because thats all you care about!
 

tieguy

Banned
Let me 'splain it to you Lucy.
The implication that Stillcare would cross the picket line is formed from the diatribe that pride in job and company should trump all else. UP$ management only wishes it were true.

It's pretty easy to suggest someone go out and do 10 hours of work in 8 hours when you are setting in a padded chair in a temperature controlled office and then call someone a cry baby for not wanting to keep doing that, and more, everyday. The gratitude for the wages we EARN should not go to UP$ but to the teamsters, without them we wouldn't be making any more $$ than DHL drivers. Even FedEx drivers make more than DHL because of the teamsters indirectly( Fred wants to keep 'em out).

In my part of the world the same local represents both ups and dhl. Since dhl makes so much less should they accuse the teamsters of screwing them while the upsers thank only the teamsters?

Why does ups pay so much more to their non-union employees when there is no union holding a gun to their head?

thanks for splainin
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
trpinkl,

Here is my point about complaining, bashing, and making a difference and how to do it.

We are all human beings and have our ups and downs our good days and bad... What we fail to do sometimes is to take responsibility. We tend to shift the responsibility to someone else and rationalize it away. I did not allow my bosses to control what was in my power to control.

I can't believe that I was the only person out there that had reasonable bosses. I ran hubs and centers and understand the rationale of both.

If my boss told me that my drivers could not work over 9.5 and I had to put a certain number of stops per car out there.... then I found a way to do it without killing my drivers. This is my responsibility.

If I gave up who would lose??? You (the driver) loses. It boils down to communication. If I did not succeed in what my boss asks for than he/she would either micro-manage me or get rid of me. Neither one of those choices was EVER an option.

As a driver (or any employee including mgmt), you can't say "it' is not in your power". You need to find out the best way to sit down and talk with your boss and get a rapport going. It is in your best interest to do this. The more you talk, the more you will understand each other and what is important and why it is important. You may even want to do this in stages.

If there is no trust or communication - find someone who you mutually respect or trust and arrange a get together. Try to do it off the job. This will keep things on a balanced playing field and help to keep the fence down on both sides. Find out what you both have in common. Find out where the right button is to push. Once you have established a rapport, work on getting things fixed in your center.

How about establishing a driver ERI committee with a management sponsor. You guys meet on the clock and work on one problem at a time. If your management team balks at this go to the HR dept and get support from your ER Manager.

Establish this just like a Safety Committee.... Come up with a list of concerns. Then discuss the concerns. Come to a consensus as a group as to ONE problem that is easily fixed and has high importance. Then keep working down the list - get solutions going on both sides of the grid (mgmt and non-mgmt).

If this doesn't work go up the ladder to the next boss and ask for help. Utilize HR - your division mgr - who ever it takes. Take the approach that if it fails - YOU FAIL and that is not an option!!!

I am telling you that if you take this approach and you are reasonable in your concerns and are willing to take responsibility, someone in "power" will step forward to offer support and ensure you move forward.

This does take effort on your part! But NOTHING that is important to us comes without effort or sacrifice.

Remember this: To win the war you have to win one battle at a time.

Why do I care? Why do you think I took the name lifer? I am actually on a trip right now in Maui. The Daytona 500 is on and I am writing this post instead of sitting at the pool or bar watching the race! You may think that is crazy but I think it shows I care. I did the same kind of stuff when I was working on Friday nights, my door was open if you needed it to be.

Good luck! I really do want you to be successful. No one can convince me that one person can not make a difference. It's just knowing how.

The interesting thing about this post is that lifer, back when you were in mgt, ups paid you good money to be a successful mgt person, and there was more control at the local level, correct me if Im wrong. Now and in the future, ups sups and mgrs wont be making close to what you old school sups did back in the day...especially with all of the stock and everything, so many wont have the drive like the old guard because the money wont be there like it once was. There have been numerous posts on here about upsers jumping ship to dhl and fedex for more money. Second, nothing will change with this company because the competition is still " just" there, imo. All we heard about was dhl this, huge duetche post, bla, bla, now look at whats happening to them. You can say that fedex is doing better, but ups profits and overall volume continue to grow year after year. There is no real reason to "change" because in a nutshell, not much is changing. Ups is not loosing major market share, when it starts sliding a bit somehow the tides start turning and we get some back. Ups needs to as a company use their "interesting" skills to start targeting customers in different ways that they have been. This is complecate, but there are ways to do it. And if ups was able to shut down fedex, guess what, nothing would change....it would still be the same ol', same ol' just like everyone on this post is saying...nothing would change.
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
In my part of the world the same local represents both ups and dhl. Since dhl makes so much less should they accuse the teamsters of screwing them while the upsers thank only the teamsters?

Why does ups pay so much more to their non-union employees when there is no union holding a gun to their head?

thanks for splainin

Tie, not trying to bash you personally , but I know what a couple of oms sups raises were last year and it was absolutely pathetic.
 
In my part of the world the same local represents both ups and dhl. Since dhl makes so much less should they accuse the teamsters of screwing them while the upsers thank only the teamsters?

Why does ups pay so much more to their non-union employees when there is no union holding a gun to their head?

thanks for splainin
You're ignoring the obvious Tie. The teamsters may represent dhl in your pat of the woods, but they represent UP$ in the whole dang forest, that gives them more leverage to push for higher wages with UP$. Add that to the well published fact that dhl as a whole so far hasn't shown a profit in the USA. It's hard to ask for a larger portion of the pie that only has crust left.
UP$'s non-union people don't get paid all that great from what I hear. Plus, I have been told in the past that the company tried to keep non-union and union wages for similar jobs equal to one another to keep clerks as such from trying to organize .
 
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