Corp Marketing Layoffs

[moreluck]

DOL...you know the only expert on everything is Klein.....

 

[dannyboy]

i think these positions are being shifted from corporate to the district level, the reasoning being that every district will have unique customer mixes and marketing needs. I've not heard about any straight layoffs, but I would guess these people could move into these new positions.

They were walking people out today and the former employee was told they could take their purse or lunch sack and everything else will be sent to them

There were 50 people affected of which 5 - 10 were offered the opportunity to apply for positions elsewhere (Sales mostly). The others were offered a seperation package and escorted out.

How funny, another fine example of how out of touch with reality sales guy is. And instead of admitting his mouth outran his brain, he posted the good old standby

when will the drivers make a concession?

Ah yes, jealous because he had to make a concession before he got a raise? How terrible. And I am impressed, all of 9 posts before his hatred of the delivery force is made evident. What's that got to do with the thread????????

i haven't gotten a good sales lead in 3 years. you all are like a broken record. maybe if I did, none of this would have to happen.
So buttercup, no good sales leads in three years, whatcha been doin? Sitting in meetings? Shufflin things around on the computer? What??????
no, i sell transportation, and we have 6.1 million daily customers, yeah, they dont all get a visit. we cant afford that many sales people....hmmm, i wonder why?
You are right, we dont need that many sales people. But what we do need is to have a sales force that will call on their customers at least once a year. Thats not askin too much is it?
i am converting business in my account base, not knocking on doors. that's not in my job description.
GEEZ, and its not my job description to pick up that piece of trash laying on the floor either, but I still do it because it needs done. So, you are converting business in your account base, I would assume you are trying to get more volume from what customers you already have? Good for you, a gold star.

and you don't think I am a good sales rep? good. I am a Senior Account Executive. you = driver.

Boy, give the guy a gold star and look at the high and mighty attitude. Simple math, you might be the driver, but Senior Account Executive + $1.95 gets you a cup of coffee at MckeeDee's

our profit wasnt from increased business or revenue per peice, it was from cost cutting. get a clue people.

Yes sir, and as a business owner, cost cutting is the first place I look. And the first place to look is where the expense as risen the most. And the largest increase in expense since the 90's has been Atlanta, where everybody has people working for them, and titles are a dime a dozen. A real cool place where people at the top get to make work for those beneath them, and when the work is not done on time, or the desired effect is not achieved, we just put more people on assignment. Almost like obama spending.

i would never take a contract that protects the lazy ass working beside me. pay should be based on performance, nothing else.

I used to agree with that statement, but I have seen what fine idiots can do with performance numbers. Just like if you were in charge of deciding what the performance standards were to be for drivers.

i have a CYA file from customers 20 MB large that says I am a crucial part of their organization.

Wow, your ass must be huge to need 20 MB?

i dont need an overpaid mechanic to tell me what I am worth.

And we sure dont need an Narcissistic salesman to tell us what we are worth either. So quit. Say hello to your brother socks, will ya?

and yes, I got promoted and my DOS hates me, so i guess that would have to say something about being promoted based on performance.

You think you get hated because of your performance? I would suggest by your postings that you either stabbed him in the back, or its your lack of people skills that developed the hate. Get a grip

yes, you service the customers who I sell our transportation solutions. AGAIN it's not the delivery we make money, it's the pickup. if you can't make a delivery, it's a service refund. we all play our parts.

Kinda like me getting a contract to build a pond. I make the money because of the sale. But its the install and cost/quality control that allows me to keep a larger portion of that money. Try to just pick it up without the delivery, and see what happens.

internally, I am a senior account MANAGER, meaning I am responsible for just about everything that goes into the account, account maintenance, operations fixes, etc. No, i do not handle the delivery

Maybe that is why your posts show so much disdain for the delivery end of the contract. And of course the operation fixes, we in operations cant live without your fixing our end of the business.

never didnt give you credit. drivers are the front line of this company, thus the reason we challenge them to get sales leads.
WE are the front line. To most customers, we are the face of UPS. Get used to it. That is the way it is. Now, you challenge us to get sales leads, but yet you claim you haven't gotten a good one in over three years? Maybe if you got out of your office chair once in a while.......
i can't help that ups gives me two titles.
Wow, now you are trying to pass yourself off as humble? I thought you proclaimed yourself a senior account manager, and that you earned the position with your prowess at sales. And now the truth, ups gave you the title, you didn't earn it? No wonder the DOS hates you.

i also want you to see a different point of view. no one wins unless we all win, and I am tired of getting **** on by people who dont know what I do all day. I can do your job, probably not a well, but I have yet to find a driver who wants to walk in my shoes for a day. edit: or another manager who isnt in business development

What a load. Not only can I walk in your shoes, I can make the sale. Done it, got the money and scars to prove it. But you keep telling yourself how tough your job is, and that no one but you can do the job. And I guess that is why you got the 20 MB file as your safety parachute, just in case you are wrong? Because nobody is as smart and good at sales as you are?

I dont know how I missed this thread, but I see Sock's alter ego is back at it. Prime examples both of why a union will always be needed at ups. Not because it is a bad place to work, but because of people that think they are so much better than anyone else around them.

Pman, some interesting posts. I would humbly suggest that part of the reason the majority were cast aside was that it is cheaper these days to find someone with the credentials the company needs than to train someone that does not have the skills for the job. Used to be, UPS would invest in its employees to see they got trained/had the knack for what ever job needed done. But not anymore.

Which brings me to the second question. Was it not the UPS corp management committee that placed people in many jobs in the first place? Why would they make an assignment like that, knowing that the people assigned were under prepared for the challenge.

My condolences to the people, regardless of who they are. Losing a job is tough enough. Being manhandled is another.

friend

 

[Braveheart]

when will the drivers make a concession?

Concessions usually come when a company is LOSING money.

We made over $2 BILLION despite a bad economy. Not what it used to be sure, but still very profitable.

We did give our pension over to UPS which is what UPS wanted. UPS does not do anything unless they plan on making money off of it. Sure they paid $6 BILLION to get it but they will no doubt make tons of money off it.

We also went from a final raise of $1 per hour in the last contract down to .70 cents in the first year of this one. It was also cut into 2 with half of our raise held for 6 months allowing UPS to pocket those savings.

In fact every single raise in this contract is smaller than the last raise of the past contract.

All the raises are below 3% as well I might add. They are all between 2.4% and 2.9%. In fact they are some of the smallest percentage raises I have witnessed in 20 years.

We gave UPS another 6 months of progression for drivers. Now a full year longer than it was 2 contracts ago. UPS saving a bunch of money on that.

Part-timers now must wait 12 months for benefits and their family waits 18 months when the whole family used to get benefits after about 4 months before. UPS saving millions on that one alone.

This does not even mention how part timers over the last 2 or 3 contracts went from 1 year to get option days to 3 plus years as it is now. The part-timers also do not get any paid holidays their first year anymore either.

We, as I have been told, will no longer get any more years of service gifts nor any years of safe driving gifts anymore either. Just a lame cardboard plack.

We also went from a holiday turkey, to a holiday turkey gift certificate, to "poof" nothing.

We also saw the safe driving/safe work reward breakfast/dinner cookouts stopped as well.

Our overtime was taken and given to helpers and golf cart helpers this past peak too.

So IN FACT we have been giving concessions back to UPS one way or another.

I would have taken even smaller raises in return for better use of vacation time like single days off like an option 4 per say.

 

[ups79]

You must of missed the contract when no raise at all was approved back in the 80's.

 

[Cezanne]

You must of missed the contract when no raise at all was approved back in the 80's.

Just wondering in what contract years was that? That being said the 1982 (sell-out) contract with it's bonus money (actual James Casey's gift to his employees in his will) and the infamous two tier pay scale has been haunting us ever since.

 

[ups79]

I believe one of the years was 1990. This was the year we went to the Talledega race. Going down I met a feeder driver at a gas station and we were discussing the previous contract we had agreed to and all of earnings as a company we had. This was also the year that all full time employees receive a $1000.00 bonus and part timers received $500.00. These bonuses were to make up for the lack of a raise during the time that ups earnings were great.

 

[BrownGhost74]

Wonder if these people were let go so we could hire people at a much lower rate then they were making?
If this is true than no one with any kind of experience is safe.

Actually. the majority of the folks they hired "off the street" came in at the grade 18 and 20 levels (an 18 being a division manager level position), while the majority of those that were let go were below that grade level (with one or two exceptions).

 

[pretzel_man]

Actually. the majority of the folks they hired "off the street" came in at the grade 18 and 20 levels (an 18 being a division manager level position), while the majority of those that were let go were below that grade level (with one or two exceptions).

I think you have the grades wrong. I believe they were 18's (division managers) and 16's (managers). They are also hiring 14's (supervisors) too I think.

P-Man

 

[ddomino]

As a 34 yr driver my reluctance to do leads comes from our sales team failing to follow up...Then that customer begins to have great dislike for me and I have no power to get him a UPS shipping account....I now tell them to call 800 # and will promise nothing...Its been a bad situation for some time...hope it improves

I feel the same way. It used to be you could tell a prospective customer to expect a call in 2, three days tops. If no call, BD (then customer service) got a tongue lashing and the customer got a call that day or the next. Now, you turn in a lead and it goes to region for a "follow up" call, maybe in a week or more.Sometime no follow up. Remember that "strike when the iron is hot" push? The driver saw a customer that was disgruntled with Fedex or Airborne and could call an 800 # with information for an immediate call to that customer, Hopefully to strike when the iron (anger about other company) was hot. I don't remember how long it lasted because it was not that long. A good program thrown by the wayside. So many good things have been replaced with bad or just so-so things.

 

[randomUPSISer]

I feel the same way. It used to be you could tell a prospective customer to expect a call in 2, three days tops. If no call, BD (then customer service) got a tongue lashing and the customer got a call that day or the next. Now, you turn in a lead and it goes to region for a "follow up" call, maybe in a week or more.Sometime no follow up. Remember that "strike when the iron is hot" push? The driver saw a customer that was disgruntled with Fedex or Airborne and could call an 800 # with information for an immediate call to that customer, Hopefully to strike when the iron (anger about other company) was hot. I don't remember how long it lasted because it was not that long. A good program thrown by the wayside. So many good things have been replaced with bad or just so-so things.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Mighty-Fall-Companies-Never/dp/0977326411

I think that about sums up whats happened / happening
Stage 1: Hubris Born of Success
Stage 2: Undisciplined Pursuit of More
Stage 3: Denial of Risk and Peril
Stage 4: Grasping for Salvation
Stage 5: Capitulation to Irrelevance or Death

I think we are somewhere between stage 2, and stage 3. In our "pursuit of more" as well as corporate arrogance we have decided that when good people leave "we didnt need them anyway... they were lucky to have a job with us, not us lucky to have them". This has left a vacuum in the ranks where mostly the less intelligent roam. You arent getting your business calls because of the messed up internal processes, which I might add, were created by the "less than good" roaming in the remaining ranks.

Im sure we will turn around before making it to stage 4 or 5. At our current rate though, it wont be for a couple years, and lots of lost market share to competitors. Even DM's and up at corporate have caught onto the less than stellar response by the sales force to SLIM leads.

 

[dannyboy]

A good program thrown by the wayside. So many good things have been replaced with bad or just so-so things.

I dont know as it has been replaced with something less, I believe that much if it has been replaced with meetings. You know, those time killers set up for people that have little else to do within their job description, so they waste other peoples time with meetings. Endless hours of meetings that leave the participant with the worn down to the bone, or the used and tossed feeling.

Stage 1: Hubris Born of Success
Stage 2: Undisciplined Pursuit of More
Stage 3: Denial of Risk and Peril
Stage 4: Grasping for Salvation
Stage 5: Capitulation to Irrelevance or Death

I think we are somewhere between stage 2, and stage 3. In our "pursuit of more" as well as corporate arrogance we have decided that when good people leave "we didnt need them anyway... they were lucky to have a job with us, not us lucky to have them". This has left a vacuum in the ranks where mostly the less intelligent roam. You arent getting your business calls because of the messed up internal processes, which I might add, were created by the "less than good" roaming in the remaining ranks.

Im sure we will turn around before making it to stage 4 or 5. At our current rate though, it wont be for a couple years, and lots of lost market share to competitors. Even DM's and up at corporate have caught onto the less than stellar response by the sales force to SLIM leads.

AT ups there is one other issue. Its when sales meets IE.

The sales force makes promises to the customer for what ever level of attention to detail necessary of their needs, to be able to win over the customer business. When that plan, regardless of simplicity, reaches the center, there are times when it is actually implemented in a proper fashion. But usually within a short time, since the numbers are affected, the changes are thrown by the wayside.

The customer, who thought the changes were something permanent, calls back the competitor, as we made them more mad than the competitor did in the first place. Or in a lot of cases, they have billing errors that we insist on repeating, while only correcting them after long and difficult processes that consume the customers time. Nothing like spending 10 times more time on the phone correcting billing problems than the time it took to create and ship the shipments.

And then of course there is the satisfaction survey. No doubt done by the same group that brought us global warming, which became global cooling, and now is global change. All to fit into an agenda of smoke and mirrors designed to please the powers that be.

A ups that is designed to work from the bottom up to please the people at the top, instead of the customer.

d

 

[2years2go]

I think a lot of people are pointing fingers at each other on this thread. Our real 'issue" is that we are at a competitive disadvantage to our main competitor. We can squeeze all we want out of performance improvements in our labor workforce, we can cut all we want in management numbers and benefits, but in domestic US small package, we are a dying company. We can no longer compete with FDX.

25 years ago, UPS made 95% of it's money in domestic small package. Now we make somewhere around 50%. UPS is a world wide company and our US presence will continue to shrink. UPS will continue to grow, but not in the USA.

So everyone who is pointing fingers at fellow US workers may as well not waste their time. A growing company doesn't reduce regions, districts and management. With the labor cost structure that we currently have, 10 years from now, small package in the USA will be mostly all non union FDX. US domestic UPS will be much the same as DHL, a few non union couriers picking up and delivering international. We will have killed the golden goose.

You can see it starting already, with FDX building facilities like crazy all over the US and taking all of our big business to business shippers. Driver Route levels are the lowest we have seen in 30 years and continue to drop. The stock price has been stagnant for 10 years. For those of you who think that they can keep their high paid jobs and expect to continue to get 3-4% raises moving forward, think again. The next Union contract will be a bloodbath. There will be a strike and UPS will allow the US domestic small package side of their business to dye. No more drain on the share owner's profitability. Eventually the company will return to US with a domestic business model similar to FDX with owner operators. The strike and collapse of UPS domestic will signal the end of the teamsters relationship with UPS and will result in the loss of thousands of driver and management jobs.

I wish this scenario was wrong, but the teamsters / management structure that we all are a part of, I believe, make this the most logical sequence of events. To right this ship will require calm heads at both the management committee and the teamsters to sit down and together formulate a plan to address the cost to serve disadvantage that we currently have......I don't see this happening..... Good Bye Golden Goose.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

+1

The word for 2013 will be concession.

 

[over9five]

Doom and Gloom....
-1

 

[Catatonic]

... Our real 'issue" is that we are at a competitive disadvantage to our main competitor. We can squeeze all we want out of performance improvements in our labor workforce, we can cut all we want in management numbers and benefits, but in domestic US small package, we are a dying company. We can no longer compete with FDX.
.....
I wish this scenario was wrong, but the teamsters / management structure that we all are a part of, I believe, make this the most logical sequence of events. To right this ship will require calm heads at both the management committee and the teamsters to sit down and together formulate a plan to address the cost to serve disadvantage that we currently have......I don't see this happening..... Good Bye Golden Goose.

I hear a lot of this gloom and doom talk whenever I have to go down to Corporate.
Our Board and Management Committee catch a lot of grief over the direction they have taken the company but they seem to be reacting to the same foreseen future you described.
Obama's recent praise of Fred S as an innovative, forward-thinking CEO does not bode well for unionizing FedEx or dismantling the FedEx Ground model either.
We have an interesting decade in front of us.

 

[dannyboy]

I think a lot of people are pointing fingers at each other on this thread. Our real 'issue" is that we are at a competitive disadvantage to our main competitor.
And who is that, FEDEX? Do you not think the postal service with their "if it fits, it ships" pricing is a competitor?
We can squeeze all we want out of performance improvements in our labor workforce, we can cut all we want in management numbers and benefits, but in domestic US small package, we are a dying company. We can no longer compete with FDX.

25 years ago, UPS made 95% of it's money in domestic small package. Now we make somewhere around 50%.
Numbers are wonderful. But you never had the balls to mention why you think this is true. Yes, part of it is because of volume erosion, but part is also the fact that the USA is no longer the manufacturing powerhouse it once was. Companies for which we once had thousands of package a day for, now might get a hundred on a good day. From both us and fedex. So it is not just the loss of volume that has caused this drop.

But then again, that little fact does not play well in the point you are trying to make......or not make.....
UPS is a world wide company and our US presence will continue to shrink. UPS will continue to grow, but not in the USA.
Again, with our country going from manufacturing to service, what is there to haul. We produce nothing much. So the less we produce, the less there is need of transportation services. 25 years ago, we had a different country totally than we do now.
So everyone who is pointing fingers at fellow US workers may as well not waste their time. A growing company doesn't reduce regions, districts and management.
Nope, but a stagnant growth company that just moved, and has lots of office space to fill, with new levels of management to handle things like going public etc after a while begins to realize that maybe cuts are needed.

Instead of learning the identified lessons we saw in the postal service in the 90's, we copied their structure. UPS has vast management resources that are being spent on make work projects, redundant cost saving initiatives, many of which cost more money now than they save, but we still have to spend the ten dollars to save the 42 cents.
With the labor cost structure that we currently have, 10 years from now, small package in the USA will be mostly all non union FDX. US domestic UPS will be much the same as DHL, a few non union couriers picking up and delivering international.

Ah, Labor costs. Now the point you have tried to dance around is shining through. So interested in your labor costs, you intend to forget that management is labor also? And your costs are included in labor? Or are you considered overhead? Nope, you intend to base all your labor hangups on union/non union fodder that has been around for years. Yes, thing need to change, lots of things.

A company that does not change with the times will be left behind. As our country is changing, not for the better I might add, we have to adapt.
We will have killed the golden goose.
WE? Explain for those of us that are not as gifted at spinning a tall tale how it is WE killed the golden goose? Do we control anything?

You can see it starting already, with FDX building facilities like crazy all over the US and taking all of our big business to business shippers. Driver Route levels are the lowest we have seen in 30 years and continue to drop.
Really? And that is the fault of your labor costs? It sure cant be because of the worst economy since the depression of the 40's now could it? And as a matter of record, we are actually running just as many routes as we did 3 years ago, but that is because the drivers are working longer hours. Driver route levels are not at a 30 year low and dropping.

The stock price has been stagnant for 10 years.
And why is that? Could it be that the desire to cash in cost UPS employees in the long run? Going public has not been the rose without the thorns that you all thought, was it?
For those of you who think that they can keep their high paid jobs and expect to continue to get 3-4% raises moving forward, think again. The next Union contract will be a bloodbath. There will be a strike and UPS will allow the US domestic small package side of their business to dye

Spare me the crap. And the word your are looking for is die. But actually, your misspell is an indication on the paint job you are trying to sell off as authentic

No more drain on the share owner's profitability. Eventually the company will return to US with a domestic business model similar to FDX with owner operators. The strike and collapse of UPS domestic will signal the end of the teamsters relationship with UPS and will result in the loss of thousands of driver and management jobs.
So you are saying ups will quit the us market, then return after a few years and set up another company that will mirror fedex? I get it now, you are confusing UPS and DHL. DHL went under and is gone, but rest assured, they will be back, better than ever, and under a different logo. But that is not UPS. Again, the stuff you are sniffing is doing serious damage to your brain.....

I wish this scenario was wrong, but the teamsters / management structure that we all are a part of, I believe, make this the most logical sequence of events.
Problem is that you are using your logic which is seriously flawed.
To right this ship will require calm heads at both the management committee and the teamsters to sit down and together formulate a plan to address the cost to serve disadvantage that we currently have......I don't see this happening..... Good Bye Golden Goose.
​

2togo, you write like youve been drinking. The whole world is a dreadful place through the shot glass.....

While there are a lot of issues for UPS to deal with, there are also solutions. And the black paint used above is not one of the options.

Yes, there will be concessions in the next contract, maybe even before. On BOTH sides of the table.

I do not see FEDex or any of its babies being allowed to become union. Just not gonna happen with obama at the helm. After all, last week, when asked who in the business world was his favorite, he replied Fred S of Fedex. So sorry UPS and those teamsters that supported obama because they wanted to see a level playing field......not under his watch.

UPS and the teamsters have to work on this together. But UPS also has to show itself a wise manager of the corp labor pool as well. Which is not happened till this year.

d