Credit default/Global Warming

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by av8torntn, Dec 18, 2009.

  1. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/wo...-architects-carbon-derivatives-which-would-be


    After reading one of the other threads it came to me that the same people that think global warming is bad also think credit derivatives are bad. So just wondering what you think since the same crowd is pushing both?

    I personally think that two adults should have the freedom to enter into whatever contracts they choose but I know the majority on here do not so this would be interesting to me to kinda figure out why.
     
  2. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    I'd like to hear the prez. talk about global warming when he returns to D.C. and they get a foot of snow this weekend. :knockedout:
     
  3. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    The whole Cap and Trade thing is nothing but a global investment architecture and has been from the get go. If you build an investment model off the existence of a commodity, in this case CO2, would it make sense to invest either way into a resource that the goal is to completely deplete from existence? But therein lay the rub and the gimmick, CO2 can not be eliminated and I dare say if you create an investment vehicle, you'll create the market place and more of the resource to fill that market demand. Is not the goal of any good business to grow in size and revenue?

    Google Al Gore, David Blood, Generation Investment Management and also Goldman Sachs>Cap and Trade market which Goldman owns 10% of the Chicago Market which will have exclusive rights to trade global carbon credits and see what you can datamine. And imagine that, more Goldman Sachs and what President is tight with Goldman Sachs and who just took Air Force 1 for a spin to promote Cap and Trade? Even the Russians and the infamous Pravda News is seriously questioning the whole global warming thingy.

    I completely agree about the right of 2 individuals to freely contract, even bet on the outcome of 2 ants walking down the road and to market this product (if you want to call it such) to others who might want to engage in such lunacy. Where I have a problem in our Statist Capitialism world is when the business end of these enterprises go to gov't for special treatment, incentives and failsafe backing (including various judgement proofing of personal liability) which in turn gives the impression to the masses that these activities are safe because the gov't will uh let's tell the truth here, the taxpayer is on the hook to bail out the morons who invest. There's no risk so there's gonna be more morons!

    Let these companies stand on their own including the dissolving of their State granted corp. charters which in many cases protects the individuals within the enterprise personally from liability and then let them go out into the market place in a true free market fashion on equal plane with the consumer and then conduct those free market contracts of buyer and seller both of equal status and at equal risk. Remember, in a true free market where 2 people are free to contract, both buyer and seller come in as equals. In State Capitialism, the corporation holds special priviledge of reduced liability that the buyer does not enjoy as a priviledge of the State and thus not true free market captialism as one side enjoys gov't privilege. That is mercantilism.

    I'll bet the removal of the corporate safety net of personal liabilty itself would be enough to remove a ton of monkey play from the markets and a lot of those investment vehicles we see now would be way to risky for the seller to market in a true free market system. The buyer could go directly after the seller and all his associates personally down the company chain if a fraud was discovered. A self regulating market if you will!
     
  4. av8torntn

    av8torntn Well-Known Member

    OK but for all of those that have called for the elimination of speculation in commodities and the elimination of credit "swaps" where are the calls for the elimination or banning of carbon "credits"?

    I am truly shocked since there are plenty of populists and plenty of liberals on here that want a government to protect them from themselves that not one person has called for the outlaw of this. OK not really which is why I had at first thought about adding this to the hypocrisy thread. :happy2:
     
  5. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

  6. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

  7. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Make that two feet. Better yet he left the global warming hyseria event in snow and arrived back in DC with even more snow. I'm afraid it did not do much to help convince us that global warming was an issue. :happy-very:

    Realistically they should have held the event in one of the countries the global warming nazi's are claiming is being hurt. The world could then have directly viewed the evidence and discussed the need for strict controls. I'm thinking the north pole would have been Ideal....:)
     
  8. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    If man is responsible for our current weather changes ,
    then who caused The Great Ice Age before man.
     
  9. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Chain-smoking dinosaurs?
     
  10. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Man because we weren't here to warm the place up!
    :wink2:
     
  11. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Actually they refused to fart enough. Their own PC and politeness froze em' to death!
     
  12. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Exclusive video of evil white men causing global warming!

    [video=youtube;R6dm9rN6oTs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6dm9rN6oTs[/video]
     
  13. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    It's amazing that every time Blazing Saddles comes on regular TV, they cut that part out.
     
  14. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    That's insane. It's honestly a cultural epic moment kinda thing!
     
  15. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Yes, and they also cut out the "tootsie roll" pool scene from Caddyshack.
     
  16. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    There's a lot of that movie now that get's cut and it's really sad. It's one of the greatest movies of all time IMO because no matter who you are or from where you came, it pokes big holes in stereotypes and makes everyone laugh at themselves. When you can turn the profane and defamatory into pure humor, it's looses it's grip of offense and therefore becomes unnecessary in it's previous form.

    It also shows how the worst in man uses and grows itself via our own worst side of our nature.

    jmo

    oooopppppppssssss! Don't look Island, another property rights movie!
    :happy-very:
     
  17. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Hey Florida.....how's that global warming going?? 14 degrees in Tallahassee !!
     
  18. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

  19. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1962294,00.html
    Brace yourselves now — this may be a case of politicians twisting the facts. There is some evidence that climate change could in fact make such massive snowstorms more common, even as the world continues to warm. As the meteorologist Jeff Masters points out in his excellent blog at Weather Underground, the two major storms that hit Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, D.C., this winter — in December and during the first weekend of February — are already among the 10 heaviest snowfalls those cities have ever recorded. The chance of that happening in the same winter is incredibly unlikely.

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1962294,00.html#ixzz0f94VVibv

    If there is a snowless winter they cheer about global warming, but when there is a winter like now they cheer louder .
     
  20. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    funny how the words more and more try and get changed from "global warming" to "climate change"...... but I couldve swore that The Debate Is Over....