CS pension "Cut out the middle man"

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by area43, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. area43

    area43 New Member

    "Cut out the middle man" will now be refered to as "The Plan". CS UPSer's here it goes. The details have been finalized. Here is what I came up with. Its Debatable. If you have anything to add or subtract please feel free to respond. I'll try and make it short.

    The "Buy Out"

    Whats fair is fair. UPSers(active workers) that are presently in the CS plan should recieve all contributions made on their behalf during their present tenure at UPS. UPS full timers should get what UPS has put into the CS fund. Earnings and losses should not count against or for the employee. Crisis. Reason being, they(the employee) had no input on how and where his or hers contributions should have been invested, thus no liability should be taken against him/her.

    "Choice"

    The Full time employee should exercise his/her right to have a say in the matter of his/her future or pension. Thus a choice concerning the lump sum. For all intents and purposes I'll use the rounded out figure of $10,000 a year per buy out. Example, a 10 year ft driver would recieve a $100,000. Than that UPSer would have the choice to put it in the existing Teamster-UPS 401K(which is not like Enron, 2 identities is watching the other over your stash of cash),Roth IRA or a Plan IRA. I might add these funds can not be touched intill you reach the age of 59 1/2.

    Also, in the choice factor. Those that wish or feel more comfortable in the CS mep can choose to stay in it. Its what you the UPSers feel most comfortable with. That is the buy out.

    "Future Contributions"

    All future UPS weekly pension contributions will be negiotiated by the Teamsters at contract due times.

    Each UPS full time employee will have the CHOICE in where his UPS weekly pension contributions will be deposited in. Teamster-UPS 401k, Roth IRA or conviencal IRA.

    Being Vested would no longer exist. New ft drivers after reaching their 40 day probational period will make the CHOICE on where his future UPS weekly pension contributions will be deposited into. If the UPS ft driver decides to leave and pursue other occupational interest. His monies will go with him/her. Transferrable.

    As of now in the CS mep plan only 40 cents of every dollar amount contributed by UPS goes to the UPSer ft employee upon retirement. Thus one year in "The Plan" equals 2 1/5 years in the CS mep plan. For those that start driving ft at a later year in life, such as 45 or 50 years of age this will have its advantages.

    President Jim Hoffa Jr., as you can see this puts the common labor interest at an advantage. Isn't that what the Teamster's is all about? Putting the power back in the "Common Laborer". Jim Jr. do what is "Right". Go with "The Plan".

    In closing, It appears on the 10 member CS pension council its 50/50. So, there is some blame to be spread. UPS will pay its share of blame on the investment decisions of the pension monies. I might have some reservations about this. If the fund is based on the Idividual pension contributions than I feel that UPS has meet its obligation. If its based on the entire fund. Which I believe it is not fair to UPS than it is under funded. Why should UPS be held accountable for other companies employees. Its just not FAIR!!!!!!! UPS has a creditable and legal concern about this Practice.

    Well, I tried and brain storm the whole problem Put it in a nut shell that is easily understandable by all people. Take care area 43
     
  2. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    Sounds like something that will benefit the employee. Therefore unlikely to happen. I like the concept.
     
  3. area43

    area43 New Member

    cont. from permalink #1

    As you can tell by my 3 or 4 earlier post that I got kind of excited. In refernce to the Thread "Think it thru.......pension take over" by Brown Don(permalink 27,article) my key point of interest was with the word "Promises" made by the Teamsters. I might be taking this a little to the extreme but I made a serious mention about the term "Promises" on a much earlier post of mine. Thread. "Is Central States Pension Fund ready to go under", permalink #361. I have already stated this in a earlier post/s. I thought I would just state it again for the record.

    Ok, these are some of my thoughts/predictions as of today on the "Buy out". Kind of like a open public diary.

    UPS I believe is going to try and pursue "The Plan" that I have suggested. Again, I will use the example of the UPS ft driver that has 10 years vested in the CS mep. Thus, this employee will recieve $10,000 per year of service giving him a total of a $100,000. I have a gut feeling UPS will try and give you this amount in UPS Stock. Yes UPSers, a $100,000 in UPS Stock. If they do this than they should give you the UPS ft employee the choice/option to sell it immediately and deposit all proceeds into the Teamster-UPS 401k with your name on it. Legally I believe this could be done with the right accounting lawyers. Remember, you can only deposit $15,400 a year max in the 401k. Than all future weekly UPS pension contributions will be deposited into your account.

    UPS in going with "The Plan" does try to make themselves out to be the hero. Not so fast. Alterior motive. Sammie and Rocky Rogue posted just recently that if there was a strike the share holders would hang/lynch CEO Eskew and all the upper mgt people. Well, as you can see now 35,000 to 40,000 ex Csers(active ft UPS employees) are holding a lot of UPS stock. Thus making them part of the lynch mob. Now, I ask you this. If and I say If we were to go on strike would those ex CS Stock holding active ft UPSers go out on strike. Remember, all your pension is now tied up in UPS Stock. They(ex CSers/UPSers) now own a big part of the company. A strike would or could devastate their stock/pension. Hmmmmm, Could UPS be thinking or actually trying to sell this idea to the Teamsters. Smart Strategy, this would be a great strategy by UPS. Lets just say a great bargaining tool in the months to come. Do I agee, jury is still out. Yes, the Teamsters and UPS want to hammer out an agreement on the contract by Oct 1, but I believe the CS agreement is and might be still a ways off. Does one need the other to be ratified. Contract/CS deal together for it to work. Possible, perphaps. Only time will tell.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2007
  4. area43

    area43 New Member

    cont from permalink #3

    UPS in reference to the 6 to 12 billion estimate in buying out and funding the fund to acceptable levels. UPS will try and use these monies toward their attempt to give back to the UPS ft empoyees their long lost past UPS contributions, because we all know the Teamsters are not going to give it from their CS bank account. Remember, UPSers "promises" UPS is going to use that as their main arguement. The Teamsters made promises they knew they couldn't keep. UPS will argue because of that the Teamsters should not be trusted with more UPS monies. This is where the fight begins. Instead of UPS giving the Teamsters the monies to bring the funding levels up. UPS is going to try I believe to give the funding level monies to the UPS ft employees(CS) via UPS stock. Again, This would be a smart move on UPS's part. Noble cause,perphaps. With a few strings attached.
     
  5. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    The major flaw in your plan is the fact it only benefits UPS teamsters and UPS.
    The other( non-UPS) teamsters will not allow their cash cow to be sold.
    We will just have to see how things pan out.
     
  6. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    Never have your pension tied up in UPS stock. Did we not learn from Enron.
     
  7. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    Tied up is the keyword.
    If it is in a 401k plan,
    stock given can be sold the next day and the monies still held in a tax deferred account.
    Most Enron people that got hurt, held the majority of their life savings in that single stock.
    That is always foolish.
    Enron's principal downfall was due to corrupt management and faulty accounting procedures.
    I see more of those two qualities in the teamsters CS controlled pension plan than I have ever seen in the way UPS controls and conducts their business affairs.
    Never say never, and yes the majority of people did learn from Enron.
     
  8. area43

    area43 New Member

    I agree. UPS will challenge the Teamsters on being incompentant based on making Promises(dime a dozen). UPS will challenge the Mep funding law. Folks, I just don't see UPS giving up billions of dollars to a fund thats going bankrupt. I believe they are going to fight it by whatever legal means necessary. Promises, UPS didn't make those promises and I will say, unrealistic pension promises. Projections, Teamster failed or purposely didn't change the retirement plans quick enought to reflect the changing conditions of the fund. They(Teamsters)kept the promises in tact. I'll bring up Social Security as an example. We have know for years, decades that S.S. was going south. Has the feds done much too change that besides raise the age. Are they guilty of making promises that they knew they couldn't keep? Was it a political move by a particular party that kept it the way it was? To secure a voting block, perphaps. Could that party be legally liable for their out right decietfulness? I feel the Teamsters are in the same boat. They kept the pension plan high bennies as a way to keep and retain it membership, but also attract new members.

    UPS does not have a endless bank account. I believe 10 billion and above would put it in the red for the first time in a 100 years. Im just talking about the cash on hand. Not assets. I know that can be decieving. Why must UPS be in so called "Double Jeopardy"? Pay now(contributions) and Pay later(buy out). Is UPS being singled out because their the biggest goose? Would the other companies in the fund be held to the same standard? To put 10 billion in a broken fund thats headed for the feds seems irrational. Why not just split it up amongst the exiting active UPS ft workers.

    What punishment do the Teamster Br/ass get for putting the fund at an unacceptable level? After all it the MEP was their baby. Do they have to pay anything? Remember UPS didn't make all those promises. Is that what the acceptable funding is based on? Inflated Promises. Again, Teamsters high promises. That could affect the buy out price.

    In closing, I just want to say this. Scratch, I hope you don't mind but Iam going to use you as my example. Scratch is a very noble, kind, hard working and great person. Scratch has roughly 24 years ft. Folks, I have 20 years ft time and the fund Im in is at 73 %. I have five years left. Alot can happen. Back to Scratch, Drivers like Scratch,15,20,25 years have the most to lose. CS after the buy out will be headed to the feds. That means Scratch will recieve his 2 ck retirement. One will be from the feds which might only add up to a $1,000 a month and than one from UPS. UPS's ck will vary on how much more Scratch plans to work. Lets just say another 5 grueling years. He than possibley could recieve $500 a month from the company. Scratch does have 8 years pt so that might help. Years total with the company = 30 yrs ft and 8 pt would equal $1500 a month. Folks, that is just not right. I could be a little off on the monthly figure. I hope UPS goes with the plan I suggested. Its been out there. Red, knows. It just was in pieces. I put it together just a few days ago.
     
  9. tke108hawk

    tke108hawk 4 monday's & 1 friday

    43, if it's all about the $$ , who's going to hold the health portion of our contract-- teamsters or ups or jointly. I'm working on 24 yrs in march w/ 2 1/2 pt. any thoughts on where that is going?
     
  10. area43

    area43 New Member

    Health will stay with the Teamsters. UPS is only buying out the Pension.
     
  11. TheOCbaby

    TheOCbaby New Member

    Area 43, please learn the difference between "than" and "then". It's kind of frustrating to read the same mistake over and over again throughout your posts.