Ctr. Mgr. "Just rain water" HazMat "Leaker"

[Kyle-ProRI]

http://www.browncafe.com/community/...pts-in-ups-trailer-packages-destroyed.138243/

 

[sano]

http://www.browncafe.com/community/...pts-in-ups-trailer-packages-destroyed.138243/

Rain Water dont burn

 

[Ms Spoken]

Rain Water dont burn

No rain water will not burn but, it's the other wet chems that will burn. Come on a wet package has to be treated as a Haz because you have no idea if it was next to a leaker.
One of my customers gave me a heads up that a "auto air bag" was being shipped in and to make sure I didn't drop it. Sure enough the next day there was the pkg from a car dealer in St. Louis send via ground in a plain brown box. Told my driver sup, he opened it and there was the other Haz box with the explosive on it. What makes me so mad these people do not care about the other people they could be hurting. That car dealership should have lost their UPS shipping rights over that.

 

[Kyle-ProRI]

Rain Water dont burn

Tell me something I don't know..

 

[HazMatMan]

Rain Water dont burn

Unless it's acid rain.

 

[Floridacargocat]

"That car dealership should have lost their UPS shipping rights over that."
Under ICAO/IATA/FAA regulations, an incident report about discovered hidden hazmat shipments has to be made, at least in the case of air transportation.
Am not able to find this requirement in 49CFR for ground transportation. Incidents reports need to be filed only when damages or injuries have occured. DOT HazMat specialist also informed me, that for such a type of case there is no reporting requirement (tried to get some clarification a long time ago).
Theoretically the car dealership can be charged by DOT with offering a hidden shipment (and that will become expensive as fines for commercial establishment are stiff to say the least).
Which kind of action will be taken by UPS management, I have no idea, maybe the internal workings will take care of that in their own ways.
Hidden shipments are difficult to find, but sometimes all the clues are there. Who will connect all the dots without being called paranoid?
Once you have seen a fully expanded liferaft and compared it to the original packed state, maybe then attitudes will begin to change. An expanded airbag is not that big, but it is the principle of deliberately violating regulations. If this is done, then other items will be shipped the same way, which can cause far more damage than this airbag.
Possible way out: Training of customers once they have been identified as "possible" HazMat shippers and random inspections.

 

[tieguy]

are you kidding me? Im describing what COULD happen. Not what happend. You think if I was in instant pain and convinced it was rain water, I would even have to talk about this here? You don't even understand the topic, why don't you do me a favor and stop posting pointless issues..

I'm sorry Kyle . Those were your words I regurgitated back to you. You have made some pretty serious allegations here. You're reporting a haz mat incident here yet you can't even tell us what the substance was, whether it was an acid or base ( you said both) and you did not seek medical attention. If you are going to make such serious allegations the least you can do is be accurate and be prepared to explain inconsistencies in your story.

At this point you have not been able to explain any of the following:

a) what was the substance. Why does the center manager say your leak was rainwater?

b) If both hands were affected by this leaker then it must have been a significant leak. Was the "scanner" person who sent it back to you also affected?

c) was it a true hazmat with a diamond label. If you got it on both hands then you had to get a good look at it?

d) another inconsistency. I bring it up because we do get our share of trolls on this site. Why do you use vague terms like scanner and dmp to refer to other jobs while you label your manager as the newly promoted center manager? seems a little odd that you would use slang for other jobs but you carefully word your center managers label to give us the mental vision of some young reckless overly aggressive boss.

 

[tieguy]

"That car dealership should have lost their UPS shipping rights over that."
Under ICAO/IATA/FAA regulations, an incident report about discovered hidden hazmat shipments has to be made, at least in the case of air transportation.
Am not able to find this requirement in 49CFR for ground transportation. Incidents reports need to be filed only when damages or injuries have occured. DOT HazMat specialist also informed me, that for such a type of case there is no reporting requirement (tried to get some clarification a long time ago).
Theoretically the car dealership can be charged by DOT with offering a hidden shipment (and that will become expensive as fines for commercial establishment are stiff to say the least).
Which kind of action will be taken by UPS management, I have no idea, maybe the internal workings will take care of that in their own ways.
Hidden shipments are difficult to find, but sometimes all the clues are there. Who will connect all the dots without being called paranoid?
Once you have seen a fully expanded liferaft and compared it to the original packed state, maybe then attitudes will begin to change. An expanded airbag is not that big, but it is the principle of deliberately violating regulations. If this is done, then other items will be shipped the same way, which can cause far more damage than this airbag.
Possible way out: Training of customers once they have been identified as "possible" HazMat shippers and random inspections.

Each violation of the haz mat procedures is investigated. Shippers who violate have had their shipping or hazmat shipping rights suspended. When suspended they can only be reinstated at the corporate level.

 

[HazMatMan]

Each violation of the haz mat procedures is investigated. Shippers who violate have had their shipping or hazmat shipping rights suspended. When suspended they can only be reinstated at the corporate level.

Your right Tie, we had a camera store violating the shipping procedures for haz-mats and UPS cut them off like a hang nail.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

How does rainwater get on the packages? Doesn't the unload work indoors?

If a package is wet, how is anyone to know if it's a hazmat or not?

Don't touch it, leave the area and contact a sup. That's how it's supposed to work, right?

If it turns out to be rainwater, then isn't it better to be safe than sorry?

If the sup doesn't like seeing the belts shut down due to the rainwater on the packages, then doesn't he/she have a responsibility to find the cause of the rainwater and fix the problem?

Sorry, just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[tieguy]

How does rainwater get on the packages? Doesn't the unload work indoors?

If a package is wet, how is anyone to know if it's a hazmat or not?

Don't touch it, leave the area and contact a sup. That's how it's supposed to work, right?

If it turns out to be rainwater, then isn't it better to be safe than sorry?

If the sup doesn't like seeing the belts shut down due to the rainwater on the packages, then doesn't he/she have a responsibility to find the cause of the rainwater and fix the problem?

Sorry, just playing devil's advocate here.

I would think someone smart enough to play devils advocate could tell the difference between a rain package stained from the outside and a package leaking from within. Could be wrong though.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

Is it not possible for one package to leak onto another package?

Is it my job to determine the type of leakage?

And, if in the process of determining the type of leakage I am injured, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the safety procedure?

 

[tieguy]

Is it not possible for one package to leak onto another package?

Is it my job to determine the type of leakage?

And, if in the process of determining the type of leakage I am injured, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the safety procedure?

I imagine you could go into your package car monday and find numerous packages with stains on the outside. Will you now pull over and contact your supervisor to come out on route and process them as possible haz mats santa?

I'm sure you will experience rain or snow sometime in the next week santa. Pull over when you see rain on your packages and call them all in as haz mats and tell me how it goes.

Or perhaps a little common sesne in applying your training and some gloves may suffice?

 

[Fnix]

I imagine you could go into your package car monday and find numerous packages with stains on the outside. Will you now pull over and contact your supervisor to come out on route and process them as possible haz mats santa?

I'm sure you will experience rain or snow sometime in the next week santa. Pull over when you see rain on your packages and call them all in as haz mats and tell me how it goes.

Or perhaps a little common sesne in applying your training and some gloves may suffice?

You make good points but I think the wording of the "dont touch leave area..." should be revised to fit a scenario as you stated.

 

[HazMatMan]

If you want to know why the package is wet just ask a supervisor, they are always touching, moving wet packages out of the unload, off the sort aisles, off the belts. I'm sure they wouldn't touch it if they didn't know what it was. (Much sarcasm intended)

 

[HazMatMan]

Actually, according to the decision tree for responders there are reasons someone can touch a wet pkg and even contain it into a spill tub and move it to the damaged package work area.

 

[tieguy]

You make good points but I think the wording of the "dont touch leave area..." should be revised to fit a scenario as you stated.

Just to be fair to the issue i have been a trained responder in the past. I have seen people including management not follow the proper procedures. So I understand where many of the posters here are coming from.

I have also seen people like Kyle take it to the complete opposite extreme where every package with a rain drip on it shuts the belt down. It because an obsession for them a way for them to screw up the operation through the application of malicious obedience.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

I imagine you could go into your package car monday and find numerous packages with stains on the outside. Will you now pull over and contact your supervisor to come out on route and process them as possible haz mats santa?

I'm sure you will experience rain or snow sometime in the next week santa. Pull over when you see rain on your packages and call them all in as haz mats and tell me how it goes.

Or perhaps a little common sesne in applying your training and some gloves may suffice?

I believe your scenario has stepped beyond the bounds of the original argument.

But, if I am in the building and see those wet packages, then yes, I will have them checked before I leave.

If I am on area and I find wet packages after repeatedly opening and closing the rear door, then I will probably assume (and yes I know what happens when you assume) that it's rainwater. Hopefully I won't be wrong. And yes, common sense would prevail.

But, back to the unload situation...

Do you not agree management has a responsibility to eliminate the unloader's objection by finding a way to keep rainwater off the packages?

If not, then in a way, it could lead to complacency.

What happens when a real hazmat that looks like rainwater on a package causes an injury because the unloader assumed it was just rainwater because it's always rainwater on the packages?

That's how the thinking that "UPS doesn't care about safety" gets started.

 

[tieguy]

I believe your scenario has stepped beyond the bounds of the original argument.

perhaps. I belive you're still trying to play devils advocate.

At this point I believe the original poster has shown an affinity for overstating conditions and over dramitizing the events. He has also shown a rabid determination to maliciously disrupt the operation beyond his normal obligations.

your continuation of this discussion at this point leads us into too many speculative scenarios. As such I would have to physically assess the situation for us to honestly carry on this discussion. That is obviously impossible here.

 

[LKLND3380]

Well last week I had a leaker in my feeder that had a HazMat pkg. on the side of it. I told my scanner and they notified "DMP". First person to respond was the new center manager, he told me I was over reacting and its just rain leaking into the trailer from the heavy rains we had. Here is his words to me, " We dont have time to respond to every single rained on pkg. When you see a wet pkg. like this, set it aside, take it out when your done" !!!!

This was all after my hands broke out and swelled from that "rained on" pkg. I told head of saftey and she told me "he's the boss, he tell me what to do" . Told me a report was unnecessary.

Call the Employee hotline... Call the Union... and possibly call a lawyer... NO EMPLOYER can ask you to work unsafe or direct you to work unsafe...

Rained on packages... It happens...

Is your Center Manager a Designated Responder? Have they completed the hours of training and yearly recertification? Did the Center manager take out a stip from the response cart and check the Ph level of the UNKNOWN liquid and check the acid level?

You told the head of safety and THEY DENIED YOU PROMPT MEDICAL ATTENTION... Do you know the contents of the packages you touched? Does the safety supe? Did the safety supe show you the MSDS and read to you how that haz mat reacts with water or contact with skin? YOU WERE DENIED PROMP MEDICAL ATTENTION WHEN YOU REQUESTED IT.

You have the right to now seek medical attention on your own and then take UPS to court for 30 mill.

Based on how UPS has been in trouble with OSHA and the EPA in the past, they will probably give you 10 million to keep your mouth shut and go away quietly.