Designated Walk Path

[island1fox]

It's 20 % of MANAGEMENT cause 80% of the problems.

Upsguy,
I was cut off before finishing my post --but if you notice I said 20% of the PEOPLE --That includes management --what I was finishing with I believe that 98% of our people are hard working upstanding people and only 2% are the problems.

 

[Bubblehead]

Bubblehead,
I left the name calling way back in the elementary schoolyard. You obviously have not. This is also evident in your thought process. You have selected a perfect posting name for yourself, clearly not very educated with very little formal or informal education.
This cafe is a microcosm of ups. Some management at UPS believe that 20% of the people cause 80%of the problems. I disagree. I believe that in

If "goofy" counts as name calling, then guilty as charged.
Seemed pretty vanilla to me.
The only thing I called you out on was you telling Integrity that he needed to get a life or a hobby.
I said nothing you hadn't already said to Integrity.
Only pointing out that hypocrisy, nothing else.
I began the post by agreeing with you on driver discretion when choosing a walk path.
I believe I concluded that post by saying you both brought something to the discussion.
If you post a thought, I can comment on it.
I only expounded on your post.
We need not agree.
You need to toughen up a bit.

 

[DS]

Islandfox, bubblehead has proved many times that he/she,has been a valid contributor here.
I don't see the walk path as an issue,in fact it seems almost stupid to me to even be an issue,
but thats me,and we all have a team of professionals telling us what to do,even if it sounds goofy.
If they tell you to stay off the grass,do it,if not take the beeline,it will save you about 3 minutes.

 

[island1fox]

Islandfox, bubblehead has proved many times that he/she,has been a valid contributor here.
I don't see the walk path as an issue,in fact it seems almost stupid to me to even be an issue,
but thats me,and we all have a team of professionals telling us what to do,even if it sounds goofy.
If they tell you to stay off the grass,do it,if not take the beeline,it will save you about 3 minutes.

DS
It would seem most of us even BH believes that our drivers are more than capable of chosing the correct walkpath. I responded to Integrity that maybe he should pick up a hobby instead of trying to create a virtual non-issue --to get a life.
The problem I had with bubblehead was that he called me a "hypocrite" because he compared my telling Integrity to get a life to me posting on BC as a retired UPSer on what he termed "current events" to get a life.
Big stretch there !! I am not soliciting grievances and trying to create a non-issue into a problem. When I drove out of my Prehistoric package car I walked on many lawns and certainly would not consider that a current event. Even it it was defined a current event as a retired UPSer should I be banned from posting or called goofy or a hypocrite for doing so ???
My point on the 98%-to the 2% --BC as well as ups 98% good upstanding people --2% -name callers, pot stirrers,brick throwers problem causers.
I have thick enough skin but will take to task anyone who cannot debate in issue in a proper and courteous manner but has to resort to childish name calling.
I enjoy the lively civil back and forth on BC even when we sometimes disagree.
One of the benefits of BC rather than UPS --At UPS the two percent --management or hourly always have to be dealt with --Here in BC I can just ignore them if I choose to.

P.S. As far as I am concerned my fued with BH is over --like the walkpath -it is a non -issue . Just wanted to point out to BH that name calling only in my opinion is childish and we can certainly agee,disagree,use a little humour etc without the personal name calling. I give him credit as he last posted if "goofy" is name calling I am guilty as charged. THE END !!! Thank you-- if you actually read all of that

 

[Integrity]

To all interested parties,

I am grievously concerned over a report that I have received.

Integrity has received a report that there are UPS management employees that are directing their drivers to ignore the designated walk path methods and to walk across customer's lawns. There is no integrity in this.

Allowing low level management employees to direct hourly employees to ignore the UPS designated walk path training cannot be tolerated. Allowing them to direct their hourly employees to ignore or violate any UPS training or work methods is an act that just cannot be tolerated. The Corporate Executives of UPS must not tolerate this type of low level management behavior.

Once I have wrapped up my current issue, it is clear to me that this must be my next mission.

In preparation for this mission:

Have any of you ever been directed by a UPS management employee to ignore or violate any UPS training or method of any kind? Please share your story with me. If you are not comfortable sharing it in this forum, please PM me your story.

Sincerely,
I

To All Interested Parties,

Above I have included my OP that the recent renewed discussion was referencing.

Integrity,
You have too much time on your hands. You need to pick up a hobby or get a life !!
A UPS driver, a professional, the best in the world can decide this for themselves.

island1fox,

Thank you for your concern about how I use my time.

It is not that I have any more time on my hands than any other.

We all have 24 hours in a day. 168 hours in a week. I try to use my time effectively, sometimes I do not make the best use of it.

I will certainly try to improve in this area.

Thanks again island1fox!!

FYI: The real issue of this post is the lack of integrity that is shown when local
management direct hourly employees to violate or ignore UPS training or work methods.

The designated walk path was the example for this discussion.

I hope you agree that no local level management person has a right to direct hourly employees to violate or ignore UPS training or work methods.

Sincerely,
I

Designated walk path? Integrity,why is this an issue? are you bored?Generally the customer does not care where you walk as long as they get their package.As a driver,I can decide the safest route to the front door.I think this concern is somewhat frivolous.

DS,

The issue is not who cares, the issue is what are UPSers trained and what are the UPS methods that will be relevant if there is an unfortunate accident or injury.

Local level management do not dictate UPS safe work methods and safety training.

They have no right to direct the employees to violate safe work methods.

Customers do not dictate UPS safe work methods and hourly employees do not dictate UPS safe work methods.

Sincerely,
I

That is one of the few positives about snow--the walkpath is designated for you by the homeowner.

UpstateNYUPSer,

The walkpath is always designated by the homeowner. It is the homeowner installed walkway that leads to the front or rear entrance of the home.

Sincerely,
I

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

UpstateNYUPSer,

The walkpath is always designated by the homeowner. It is the homeowner installed walkway that leads to the front or rear entrance of the home.

Sincerely,
I

Thanks but I will continue to use the most direct point from the PC to the delivery point.

 

[UPSGUY72]

Thanks but I will continue to use the most direct point from the PC to the delivery point.

+1

 

[Integrity]

Thanks but I will continue to use the most direct point from the PC to the delivery point.

UpstateNYUPSer,

You are welcome!

I encourage you to discontinue this practice. You are setting yourself up for unnecessary scrutiny if something bad happens.

I encourage you to use sidewalks and walkways whenever available.

I encourage you to never leave the designated walkpath except when there is no alternative. If the walkpath doesn't exist or is blocked, then use your own judgement. But please be careful!

It is polite and common courtesy not to walk on someone's lawn when approaching a residence or business establishment.

Production or convenience is not an excuse to neglect customer service.

I understand that your customer may not mind you walking on their lawn but others, who may not use UPS, may see you walking on the lawn and this could negatively impact how these pontential customers may view UPS.

I'm only saying this because you have always seemed to be interested in looking out for the best interest of UPS.

I hope you don't take it the wrong way. Please forgive me if you do!!

Sincerely,
I

 

[pretzel_man]

UpstateNYUPSer,

You are welcome!

I encourage you to discontinue this practice. You are setting yourself up for unnecessary scrutiny if something bad happens.

I encourage you to use sidewalks and walkways whenever available.

I encourage you to never leave the designated walkpath except when there is no alternative. If the walkpath doesn't exist or is blocked, then use your own judgement. But please be careful!

It is polite and common courtesy not to walk on someone's lawn when approaching a residence or business establishment.

Production or convenience is not an excuse to neglect customer service.

I understand that your customer may not mind you walking on their lawn but others, who may not use UPS, may see you walking on the lawn and this could negatively impact how these pontential customers may view UPS.

I'm only saying this because you have always seemed to be interested in looking out for the best interest of UPS.

I hope you don't take it the wrong way. Please forgive me if you do!!

Sincerely,
I

I am not aware that the methods say to NEVER walk on a lawn. I don't see where it says to ALWAYS take the most direct path.

I have never viewed the word designated as meaning a concrete walk path.

If a supervisor said to ALWAYS walk on lawns, they would be wrong. It was unclear in the original post what the supervisor said.

This is an area where common sense should prevail If the driver who delivers to my house chose to walk all the way around to get to concrete (unless the grass was snow covered or slick) I would think he didn't use common sense. In that case, walking across my lawn is the designated path. I'm happy and so would my neighbors be....

As can be seen from the responses to the thread, there in no one answer that fits in all cases. Not why this is an integrity issue....

 

[brownelf]

if the designated pathway is clear I've always tried to use them, unfortunately during the winter months many customers neglect their responsibility of maintaining a clear walkpath. At these times, especially when theres ice on the sidewalks I'm walking on the grass as there's better footing and a softer landing if I do fall.

 

[Integrity]

I am not aware that the methods say to NEVER walk on a lawn. I don't see where it says to ALWAYS take the most direct path.

I have never viewed the word designated as meaning a concrete walk path.

If a supervisor said to ALWAYS walk on lawns, they would be wrong. It was unclear in the original post what the supervisor said.

This is an area where common sense should prevail If the driver who delivers to my house chose to walk all the way around to get to concrete (unless the grass was snow covered or slick) I would think he didn't use common sense. In that case, walking across my lawn is the designated path. I'm happy and so would my neighbors be....

As can be seen from the responses to the thread, there in no one answer that fits in all cases. Not why this is an integrity issue....

pretzel_man,

Thanks!

Since the term designated walk path is referenced in safety committee meetings and during injury investigations, I think it would be helpful to have this term defined.

It can't possible mean that the designated walk path is the path that the service provider decides to take to the delivery point.

Since this would mean that every path a driver takes is the designated walk path, why would safety committees have to remind drivers to stay on the designated walk path to reduce injuries that have been happening on the designated walk paths?

And when we are talking about injuries can it possibly mean that the walk path is only not the designated walk path when you are not injured on it? If you are injured then you should have stayed on the designated walkpath.

I repeat: It is polite and common courtesy to use the walk path that the customer has installed to the front or rear of a residence.

It does not have to be concrete.

I think there should be no argument that UPS drivers are expected to be polite and courteous.

The integrity issue is not really about the designated walk path, this is just an example of one.

The integrity issue is when local level management direct hourly employees to ignore or violate UPS safety training or UPS work methods.

Does anyone believe this is not an integrity issue?

Sincerely,
I

 

[pretzel_man]

pretzel_man,

Thanks!

Since the term designated walk path is referenced in safety committee meetings and during injury investigations, I think it would be helpful to have this term defined.

It can't possible mean that the designated walk path is the path that the service provider decides to take to the delivery point.

Since this would mean that every path a driver takes is the designated walk path, why would safety committees have to remind drivers to stay on the designated walk path to reduce injuries that have been happening on the designated walk paths?

And when we are talking about injuries can it possibly mean that the walk path is only not the designated walk path when you are not injured on it? If you are injured then you should have stayed on the designated walkpath.

I repeat: It is polite and common courtesy to use the walk path that the customer has installed to the front or rear of a residence.

It does not have to be concrete.

I think there should be no argument that UPS drivers are expected to be polite and courteous.

The integrity issue is not really about the designated walk path, this is just an example of one.

The integrity issue is when local level management direct hourly employees to ignore or violate UPS safety training or UPS work methods.

Does anyone believe this is not an integrity issue?

Sincerely,
I

I think you are asking too much...

It would be impossible for management to define exactly which path is correct for every address.

I do think it fair to then question what the word "designated" means.

Like so many things, I will know it when I see it. I ask drivers to use common sense and make the best decisions possible. If they make a wrong decision, I will correct them and tell them why.

Again, why is this an integrity issue? If a supervisor said to NEVER take anything other than an "installed" path, and then said to ALWAYS take the shortest path, then you would have a point.

Until then, make appropriate choices. You can walk on my grass.

 

[Bubblehead]

I think you are asking too much...

It would be impossible for management to define exactly which path is correct for every address.

I do think it fair to then question what the word "designated" means.

Like so many things, I will know it when I see it. I ask drivers to use common sense and make the best decisions possible. If they make a wrong decision, I will correct them and tell them why.

Again, why is this an integrity issue? If a supervisor said to NEVER take anything other than an "installed" path, and then said to ALWAYS take the shortest path, then you would have a point.

Until then, make appropriate choices. You can walk on my grass.

Management prefers to use hindsight in cases like these.

 

[brownmonster]

Management prefers to use hindsight in cases like these.

Management prefers to live in the gray area so you can be wrong either way. When I was being trained a Supe and I made a delivery while cutting accross a lawn. The home owner scolded us. I seldom walk on a lawn unless the customer tells me it's OK. Most places have a sidewalk to the door.

 

[whiskey]

All this may be technically true Outta but the goal here is to make sure another person does not have an accident and get hurt. I offer suggestions to people inside and outside UPS on lifting and driving to people all the time who do not have training like we have had. It's just the right thing to do.

If its a nice day, I'll skate off a package.

 

[Integrity]

To All Interested,

I appreciate the renewed interest and spirited dialogue that this post has recently generated.

Thanks to all contributors!

Please help me further develop this thread; if you will.

Remember, the integrity issue is not the designated walk path training and methods, that is the example.

The integrity issue exists when local level management direct their subordinates, hourly or management to violate UPS safety training or work methods.

This is not about walking on sidewalks or lawns.

Please respond to the following fictitious example:

A UPS driver, while walking across a lawn steps on an upside down rake. The rake catapults up and hits him or her right in the face.

The force of the blow not only breaks the driver's nose but it causes the driver to fall and in order to break the fall the driver extends his or her arms resulting in a broken arm.

The accident scene is a residential delivery in an upper middle class subdivision. The home has a beautiful front yard with a beautiful walk way leading from the side walk to the front door.

In this driver's building their have been a number of slips and falls injuries recently. On the morning of the accident the Safety Committee did a PCM about staying on designated walk paths.

At the PCM the term "designated walk path" was clearly defined by the members of the safety committee as the walkways provided by the customers to the front and rear entrances of their home.

The safety committee's position was that cutting across a lawn is not a designated walk path unless there is no other alternative.

Prior to leaving the driver involved in the accident asked a management person if that meant he couldn't cut across lawns as he customarily did on many of his stops.

The management person said "absolutely not. You're a professional. Use your own best judgement. Do what you have to do, just don't get hurt."

The driver using his best judgement decided to cross the lawn.

The customer liked to keep the lawn healthy and left it just long enough to be healthy, but it was also just long enough to completely conceal the rake that was left on the lawn.

The driver was scanning his or her walk path but did not see the rake that smashed him or her in the face causing the injuries stated above.

The driver also followed all other safe work methods.

The injury investigation report is going to be taken by the management person he had the conversation with that morning regarding the PCM.

How do you think the management person is going to handle this injury investigation report for this unavoidable injury?

I am interested to know your predictions as to the response.

Sincerely,
I

 

[Coldworld]

Just throw the package from the truck to the doorstep...problem solved

 

[some1else]

"designated walkpaths"
Helpers where trained this year and last (talked to over 10 helpers both years) to walk across lawns.
Then we get the "safety self check" that states to take the designated walkpath and AVOID walking on grass
During our timestudies the studiers told all drivers that they must walk across lawns

All safety pcm and handouts(like the selfchecks) have said no lawns.

I asked if crossing lawns was the new policy (a center manager and dm) and both where very noncommital about giving me anything in writting saying ups is instructing me to walk on lawns.

All this adds up to another example of ups letting drivers in a spot where they turn a blind eye on whats happening until an injury then it was drivers fault for being on the grass


Regardless its ignorant to walk in peoples yard and neither me nor my helper does so (and i made 10-15hrs bonus a week all christmass). If i got written instruction to do so or be terminated i dont know... Short of that USE THE SIDEWALK YOU ARE NOT 5 YEARS OLD!

 

[Catatonic]

"designated walkpaths"
Helpers where trained this year and last (talked to over 10 helpers both years) to walk across lawns.
Then we get the "safety self check" that states to take the designated walkpath and AVOID walking on grass
During our timestudies the studiers told all drivers that they must walk across lawns

All safety pcm and handouts(like the selfchecks) have said no lawns.

I asked if crossing lawns was the new policy (a center manager and dm) and both where very noncommital about giving me anything in writting saying ups is instructing me to walk on lawns.

All this adds up to another example of ups letting drivers in a spot where they turn a blind eye on whats happening until an injury then it was drivers fault for being on the grass


Regardless its ignorant to walk in peoples yard and neither me nor my helper does so (and i made 10-15hrs bonus a week all christmass). If i got written instruction to do so or be terminated i dont know... Short of that USE THE SIDEWALK YOU ARE NOT 5 YEARS OLD!

The time study observer would not tell the driver to walk across lawns or not.
The TSO makes a judgment what the appropriate walk path should have been and records that distance as a walk classification.
The TSO is studying the area, not the driver - it makes no difference what the driver does.

 

[over9five]

On my last time study ride (March 2010), I had two houses side by side. I grabbed two packages, delivered one. The driveways were about 8' apart so I crossed 8' of lawn to save walking back to the road and back down driveway 2.
The time studier told me not to do that, use designated walkpaths.