DIAD GPS

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
I'm sorry, but I take exception to this statement. Yes, I understand the negative comments that will come from my saying this. I didn't want my silence construed as agreement however, so I felt compelled to respond.

There are about 30,000 managers and supervisors in UPS worldwide. I'm certain that there is a percent of those that are dishonest, unethical, and only care about their own ass.

There are about 80,000 package and feeder drivers in the US every day. I'm also certain that a percent of them are less than honest and look to get away with whatever they can.

I strongly believe that these individuals whether drivers or management are in the minority and the vast majority of our people try to do the best they can.

I don't believe that the Teamsters condone dishonesty in their ranks, even though it happens occaisionally.

I also know that UPS doesn't condone those acts either.

Neither of us have ever attended a meeting where we were guided in any shape or form to not do the right thing.

Again, I have never falsified a document to CYA. I've never accepted this from people I work with. To imply that this is regularly accepted is not something I can accept.

P-Man

As I said before pman, you live in a fantasyland. It is company wide vertually every center manager does anything and everything to cover their a**. They and the sups are completely dishonest.

We are directed to falsify nearly everyday, from working during lunch but coding it out; to sheeting packages misloaded as futured instead of missed so they wont catch sh**.
 

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
Trpl:

You said we'd butt heads on my desire to reduce cost and improve service. I don't believe do. I think I can prove it.

First, I believe you give 100%, so I will not ask you to work harder. However, I will ask you to trade unproductive time for productive work.

For instance...

A crappy load causes you extra time in the car looking for packages and pulling the ones you need to deliver.

Illogical EDD, causes you to drive extra miles and probably spend more time in the back of the car.

Do you re-load your car? If so, that is extra time not spent doing productive work.

If I add up this unproductive time, I'd bet its easily 20 to 30 minutes, and a few miles? Sound right? What if I could fix that?

I'd ask you to use the time I saved you to either come in earlier, or deliver more stops.

I would work to improve these issues as a commitment to you. If I fixed them, I'd ask you to show reduced cost and improved service.

That's the way its supposed to get fixed, and there are many centers doing that.

P-Man

I want to know HOW you would fix the crappy loads and edd. It sure isn't happening here, or alot of other places from what I read here and other sites. Do you have a magic wand?
 

1989

Well-Known Member
As I said before pman, you live in a fantasyland. It is company wide vertually every center manager does anything and everything to cover their a**. They and the sups are completely dishonest.

We are directed to falsify nearly everyday, from working during lunch but coding it out; to sheeting packages misloaded as futured instead of missed so they wont catch sh**.

This is your limited experience...I haven't seen this in the 4 buildings and 2 districts I've driven in. Besides, it is your responsibility to take your lunch nobody elses.
 

IWorkAsDirected

Outa browns on 04/30/09
I take my lunch and my break full hour and 15 min every day. BUT I have been told by my sup to work through it and record it, I have also heard him instruct other drivers to do it usually when they ask for an 8 or to code 5, since we are required to record at least a half hour, he has told them well, some drivers put it in then work through it, that way you can get done when you want.

As for the other, it happens daily, maybe you just aren't seeing it, but it happens to cover their butts everyday. No, it is not limited to just my center, read.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
As I said before pman, you live in a fantasyland. It is company wide vertually every center manager does anything and everything to cover their a**. They and the sups are completely dishonest.

We are directed to falsify nearly everyday, from working during lunch but coding it out; to sheeting packages misloaded as futured instead of missed so they wont catch sh**.

How many centers have you seen?? I've seen a lot, in many districts.

Because I've seen good ones, I wouldn't say that they all are good. Why do you assume that they all are bad?

The root cause of the good vs. bad ones is the local management.

P-Man
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
I want to know HOW you would fix the crappy loads and edd. It sure isn't happening here, or alot of other places from what I read here and other sites. Do you have a magic wand?

No Magic Wand, just good old back to the basics. This stuff existed before there were any computer systems, and the fix is the same.

First, I fix the load. I work with the preloader and go over methods. How to place a package. How to lip load. When to drop a package to the floor.

I'd review daily any misloads in their load from the day before. I'd audit throughout the preload to ensure that the load was as good as it could be.

I had to do this 30 years ago. Same today.

Next, I go to DPS and work with the PDS. I check for glaring problems in the route, and make "first cut edits".

Then, I bring you in. I show you your route on the map, and ask for suggestions for improvement. If you think the trace can be improved to reduce mile, I adjust (as long as the change makes sense).

Since I already worked with the preloader, the changes to the load will now be in the right place.

I review with you over a few days, and make changes as needed.

This process will take a few weeks, but its worked.

Now, the down side. The local management has to keep this up. they have to continue to follow up with the preloaders, and make route adjustments as needed.

The business always took care and feeding. Just because we have a computer, it hasn't changed.

I've said before, many centers are doing this very well. Their service and production have improved. They don't have peak season crisis' any more.

I know it can be done, but the answer is to get back to the basics and understand that there is no "magic wand" or "silver bullet".

P-Man
 

BigBrownSanta

Well-Known Member
P-man, If you could fix the problems that Trpl is talking about in the way you are suggesting without the 'ego trip' that most sups/mgrs (in my experience) are on then, sir, you would have my undying loyalty as your employee. I give 110% and if I had a sup/mgr that treated me the way you are talking I would give 120%.
Why are there not more sups/mgrs with your attitude towards employees?

In a word, trust. Neither side trusts the other. Both sides think "If I fix this problem, how are they gonna screw me with it later on?"
 

JustTired

free at last.......
No Magic Wand, just good old back to the basics. This stuff existed before there were any computer systems, and the fix is the same.

I know it can be done, but the answer is to get back to the basics and understand that there is no "magic wand" or "silver bullet".

P-Man

The first step is to have a management staff that is as dedicated to solving these problems as most drivers are in servicing their customers.

The problem I see is that it is hard to have a dedicated manager when they are being told what to do and when. When they are being told how many drivers to dispatch regardless of volume. When they are catching grief constantly from both ends. I'm not saying I'd be any different in that situation.

My thought is that if you are going to pay someone to be a manager....then let him/her manage.

I have no doubt that all the things you discuss can be done. I'm just hesitatant to think that they will or ever could be accomplished in the enviroment that exists today.

P-man for CEO
 

reydluap

Well-Known Member
No Magic Wand, just good old back to the basics. This stuff existed before there were any computer systems, and the fix is the same.

First, I fix the load. I work with the preloader and go over methods. How to place a package. How to lip load. When to drop a package to the floor.

I'd review daily any misloads in their load from the day before. I'd audit throughout the preload to ensure that the load was as good as it could be.

I had to do this 30 years ago. Same today.

Next, I go to DPS and work with the PDS. I check for glaring problems in the route, and make "first cut edits".

Then, I bring you in. I show you your route on the map, and ask for suggestions for improvement. If you think the trace can be improved to reduce mile, I adjust (as long as the change makes sense).

Since I already worked with the preloader, the changes to the load will now be in the right place.

I review with you over a few days, and make changes as needed.

This process will take a few weeks, but its worked.

Now, the down side. The local management has to keep this up. they have to continue to follow up with the preloaders, and make route adjustments as needed.

The business always took care and feeding. Just because we have a computer, it hasn't changed.

I've said before, many centers are doing this very well. Their service and production have improved. They don't have peak season crisis' any more.

I know it can be done, but the answer is to get back to the basics and understand that there is no "magic wand" or "silver bullet".

P-Man


P-man

This is exactly how the Center I work out of corrected a lot of our problems. Do we still have mix ups and load variation troubles? Yes. But our team of Management and Hourly do pretty much trust each other. (Of course, there are a couple of guys that would grumble every morning if they were in a new package car with a 6 hour dispatch and a runner.)
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
In a word, trust. Neither side trusts the other. Both sides think "If I fix this problem, how are they gonna screw me with it later on?"
I know Big. Sometimes it just gets old, having to watch our backs all the time. Every second of the day that I worry about my back is one less second that I have to take care of my customers. It can be discouraging at times.
 
Trpl:

You said we'd butt heads on my desire to reduce cost and improve service. I don't believe do. I think I can prove it.

First, I believe you give 100%, so I will not ask you to work harder. However, I will ask you to trade unproductive time for productive work.

For instance...

A crappy load causes you extra time in the car looking for packages and pulling the ones you need to deliver.

Illogical EDD, causes you to drive extra miles and probably spend more time in the back of the car.

Do you re-load your car? If so, that is extra time not spent doing productive work.

If I add up this unproductive time, I'd bet its easily 20 to 30 minutes, and a few miles? Sound right? What if I could fix that?

I'd ask you to use the time I saved you to either come in earlier, or deliver more stops.

I would work to improve these issues as a commitment to you. If I fixed them, I'd ask you to show reduced cost and improved service.

That's the way its supposed to get fixed, and there are many centers doing that.

P-Man
So when are you moving to Texas? Oh what I wouldn't give to have a manager/sup that could and would do just what you outlined. I use the word could for a reason, our OC sups are so few and so spread out that they have little time to do the things it would take to fix the problems. If we could just make the upper management realize that taking the time of actually fix problems the need to put out fires would dissipate.
In our center we dispatch between 65-75 drivers daily. We have three OC sups, one a newly promoted OMS that has no idea how to begin running a route, mush less of how to fix a problem ladened EDD (loop dispatch). These poor guys work their butts off 12 hours a day. Our preload sups can't teach the loaders anything because they can't do it themselves anyway. Blind leading the blind.
I basically cover about 5 routes and don't feel like I should start messing with the EDD of someone else's area.
My main frustration is and has been for many years is that upper management knows what needs to be done, but they don't seem to be willing to "take the bull by the horns". Their main concern is staying off the "lists" anyway they can get by with. I dream of the money UPS would save if all CMs would approach things as you outlined.
 

55andout?

Well-Known Member
Please explain to me how a driver giving his meal time or sorting his car before start time can possibly be considered as stealing time?
If a driver puts in his meal time from noon-1300 yet continues to deliver, and later in the day spends 15-20 minutes visiting with a customer, do you think that is stealing time?
The ones who are stealing time are the ones who do not record a lunch...or they record 1 minute to stay off of the report. Then I see on the system that their truck does not move for 40 minutes. When you question them on it all of a sudden they start recording a more accurate lunch time.
 

55andout?

Well-Known Member
We had a driver with a request 8 and he asked if he could skip lunch (he wanted to get to his son's ball game) The supervisor said and I quote "Well, you have to show a half hour lunch, but what some of the drivers do is drive during their lunch" So he is suggesting the driver be dishonest so he can make it. This sup needs to go he is constantly putting drivers at risk of losing their jobs with all kinds of stuff like this. Some of the new guys are going to take his advice and be screwed.
Yes i agree. Now the sup is stealing from the driver. Thats not right.
 
The ones who are stealing time are the ones who do not record a lunch...or they record 1 minute to stay off of the report. Then I see on the system that their truck does not move for 40 minutes. When you question them on it all of a sudden they start recording a more accurate lunch time.
Please explain that to me. How can not recording a lunch be stealing time? The required meal time is automatically taken out of your day, in my area that's an hour.
 

browniehound

Well-Known Member
Trpl:
What if I could fix that?

I'd ask you to use the time I saved you to either come in earlier, or deliver more stops.

I would work to improve these issues as a commitment to you. If I fixed them, I'd ask you to show reduced cost and improved service.

That's the way its supposed to get fixed, and there are many centers doing that.

P-Man

P-man,
I abbreviated your response to the part that I want to respond to. If you would do that for me, I would run through a brick wall for you. This may sound extreme, but I can't get any of my complaints heard, so its like I'm banging my head against a wall.

Let's say you approach me every morning and inform me I'm 7/10's paid over everyday. Now, this happened to me in real life. When I'm told this I say something like "well I had 2 stops on my truck that were part of an add/cut section, but the dispacth sup left them in my edd(not preloader's fault) that are off area.

Next, you still stuff a bulk stop (35+) packages in section 3000 when I asked repeatedly to put it in section 6900. So now the preloader is stuck with throwing packages that should be loaded stop-for-stop on the floor.
The response I get from the dispatch sup. was "yeah, the reason it was in section 3000 is because I need to change your load for every car-plan"

My question is "Why don't you just do that?????" Isn't that his job?

P-man, all I want from my superiors is to fix things with my route that are inefficent for me. If my EDD is set up inefficently and my load is not properly set correctly then my performance is going to suffer. I say over and over again what is hurting me, yet nobody wants to fix it. Why? I handed my DOL 3 years ago the way I wanted it run. Numbers breaks down to the T, yet nothing was ever changed.

Ok, maybe the sup didn't want me running the route that way(my only guess), but he could have set it up his way but use my number breaks to do it his way. He didn't even do that.

Now, while I'm on the subject of criticizing the dispatch sup., I'm going to make a point to show how clueless he is. Maybe he doesn't listen to us because many of have told him he should get a map:dissapointed:.

His major blunder is having 2 drivers deliver 1 section. I'm talking about splits in which there is only one way in and that is the only way out. This idiot is splting the section and sending 2 drivers down the same street. I'm thinking the point of the EDD systen is to save fuel and reduce miles and labor costs. I'm not a dispatch sup., but I know enough as a driver that sending 2 drivers down then same street is not accomplishing our goals:whiteflag:.

My solution? Put somebody who knows the routes in this dispatch position. Have the dispacth sup. ride with each driver for a day so he can see the things that don't show up on a map.

P-man, why can't these simple things be accomplished? There has to be a reason. If there is no reason then I can only come to 2 conclusions. The people running the business at the center level are total idiots ( I don't believe this) or our managers above the center level feel no threat from the competition (but claim there is a threat in every PCM), that we can run our business anyway we choose.

We all know our customers get mad at UPS managment. Our most profitable stops want their stuff before noon, yet we deliver them at 5:17 and the cleaning lady signed for the stuff. Doesn't matter to UPS becuase the packages were serviced at 5:17.

Problem is in reality those packaes were missed. Yes, they were signed for, but everyone at that business went home for the day. Does UPS care about service? NO, of course not, they care that the parcels were signed for the day that our company garuanteed our customers delivery.

I'm not saying this is great business sense. Just don't tell me you care about the customer when you stick a split on me in section 8700 with 5 packages for a school. When I message the center, you tell me to find a janitor:happy2:. Fine, but those packages were for people other than the janitor:happy2:. Are you saying that is making service?
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
P-man,
I abbreviated your response to the part that I want to respond to. If you would do that for me, I would run through a brick wall for you. This may sound extreme, but I can't get any of my complaints heard, so its like I'm banging my head against a wall.

Let's say you approach me every morning and inform me I'm 7/10's paid over everyday. Now, this happened to me in real life. When I'm told this I say something like "well I had 2 stops on my truck that were part of an add/cut section, but the dispacth sup left them in my edd(not preloader's fault) that are off area.

Next, you still stuff a bulk stop (35+) packages in section 3000 when I asked repeatedly to put it in section 6900. So now the preloader is stuck with throwing packages that should be loaded stop-for-stop on the floor.
The response I get from the dispatch sup. was "yeah, the reason it was in section 3000 is because I need to change your load for every car-plan"

My question is "Why don't you just do that?????" Isn't that his job?

P-man, all I want from my superiors is to fix things with my route that are inefficent for me. If my EDD is set up inefficently and my load is not properly set correctly then my performance is going to suffer. I say over and over again what is hurting me, yet nobody wants to fix it. Why? I handed my DOL 3 years ago the way I wanted it run. Numbers breaks down to the T, yet nothing was ever changed.

Ok, maybe the sup didn't want me running the route that way(my only guess), but he could have set it up his way but use my number breaks to do it his way. He didn't even do that.

Now, while I'm on the subject of criticizing the dispatch sup., I'm going to make a point to show how clueless he is. Maybe he doesn't listen to us because many of have told him he should get a map:dissapointed:.

His major blunder is having 2 drivers deliver 1 section. I'm talking about splits in which there is only one way in and that is the only way out. This idiot is splting the section and sending 2 drivers down the same street. I'm thinking the point of the EDD systen is to save fuel and reduce miles and labor costs. I'm not a dispatch sup., but I know enough as a driver that sending 2 drivers down then same street is not accomplishing our goals:whiteflag:.

My solution? Put somebody who knows the routes in this dispatch position. Have the dispacth sup. ride with each driver for a day so he can see the things that don't show up on a map.

P-man, why can't these simple things be accomplished? There has to be a reason. If there is no reason then I can only come to 2 conclusions. The people running the business at the center level are total idiots ( I don't believe this) or our managers above the center level feel no threat from the competition (but claim there is a threat in every PCM), that we can run our business anyway we choose.

We all know our customers get mad at UPS managment. Our most profitable stops want their stuff before noon, yet we deliver them at 5:17 and the cleaning lady signed for the stuff. Doesn't matter to UPS becuase the packages were serviced at 5:17.

Problem is in reality those packaes were missed. Yes, they were signed for, but everyone at that business went home for the day. Does UPS care about service? NO, of course not, they care that the parcels were signed for the day that our company garuanteed our customers delivery.

I'm not saying this is great business sense. Just don't tell me you care about the customer when you stick a split on me in section 8700 with 5 packages for a school. When I message the center, you tell me to find a janitor:happy2:. Fine, but those packages were for people other than the janitor:happy2:. Are you saying that is making service?
 
Top