discharged for dishonesty

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by laura, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. laura

    laura New Member

    Last week I was delivering and a cop stopped me and asked if I was just heading the opposite way on the road I was on like 20 minutes ago, I said yes. She said I hit a parked car. I was shocked by this and told her I didnot hit a car. She told me there was a witness and if I could please come over to where the incident happened. I went over and they pointed out the damage to this car, a 6x4 scrape on the drivers side front bumper. I said I didnt feel or hear anything, I actually delivered to the business where car was parked in front of and another business next door. I had been there for a good 8 minutes and was not made aware by anyone that I had done this. The cop said well its obvious this isnt a hit and run, that u werent aware u did this. But still asked for license, reg and ins. I then called my supervisor and as i was waiting for her to come the cops said they had to leave, i told them if they could please wait for my supervisor, they said they would come back, told the lady she could leave as well but I asked her to stay so my Sup could take pics. Besides not feeling of hearing this happen I honestly didnt believe that I could have done this for I had parked 4 car lengths at least from this womans car. My Sup came, took pictures, then had me line my truck up with the lady's car. She then was on the phone with the DM and proceeded to then tell me, ok go back to work, The DM says we are not gonna report this being you said you didnt do it. I asked her what about the cops and she said well I guess Ill wait for them for a lil bit. I continued my day working 9 more hours and when i got back to bldg i asked my Sup if the cops came back, she said yes, I said what did they say, she said nothing, I said so everything is ok? she said yes...I went home and reported to work the next day, was told what route I was doing, and proceeded to punch in went to PCM then told by my shop steward that the DM wants to see me, we went up to an office and he said.."alright we are here because of the incident yesterday, you hit a car there are witnesses, you said you didnt so your being discharged for dishonesty" and then stood up, myself and the shop steward were like"WHAT" "wait a minute, I was pleading with him to talk to me and he said its done, get her out of here...i kept pleading and then eventually I lost it and told him to go F himself. My hearing was today, i bought along the police report that has no witnesses listed, states that woman was informed by unknown female that ups truck hit her car and drove away, ups driver states she doesnt remember hitting a car, thats it. In the hearing the DM just kept saying that I was insistant that I didnt hit the car, I told him that if witnesses are saying I hit the car and from pictures it reveals I hit the car then there is a possibility but I was unaware...he didnt seem to care and now I have to wait for arbitration. I feel so upset by this and lost. I am a very hard worker, never had anything like this, no warning letters, nothing, I basically scratch everyday. I dont know what I should be doing to help this matter, Im not really getting the answers I need from the Union, any advice would be appreciated
  2. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Wow. Let me start by saying how sorry I am that you have gotten in to this situation; of course, telling the DM to F* himself did not help your case (but it is something that each and everyone here has wanted to do at one time or another). Did the scrapes on the car look like they may have been caused by the PC? Has the unknown witness stepped forward to validate his/her story?

    There are others here far more knowledgeable about the panel process than I am but if I were to guess I would say you will get your job back with time served and no back pay. There is a member named 705red who is the person you should ask about the panel process.

    Good luck and let us know how everything turns out. Dave.
  3. steward71

    steward71 Active Member

    Sorry to hear about this. you should request in letter to UPS and the Union all copies of the about the incident, all phone records, police reports UPS has and you can even get a copy of the hand notes the sup has. Look at the National Labor Board web site for info about what you can get, but make sure it is in letter. Say on the union. contact the police officer and ask them if they could give you a statement or at least call the union hall. sometimes officers don't include everything in reports of what was stated or who they talked with. asked them if they talked to your center manager or sup. or UPS great investigation depart. find out from the officer what he told the center manager or sup. you will go before a panel hearing now not arbitration yet or least that is how it goes in my area. read up in the rules of the grievance process in your agreement and find out what the next step for your area is. get the name of the woman who "you hit" ( not saying you did) have the BA contact her and talk with her. ask the BA to contact her and see if she is willing to help you. but make sure you have the BA contact them and not yourself at this time. Ask the BA how other cases were handle before like yours and see what he says. Good Luck.
  4. steward71

    steward71 Active Member

    I agree with upstate about 705 as well he gives very good info.
  5. steward71

    steward71 Active Member

    just make sure you place everything in letter and keep everything you get, paper will go a long way.
  6. rod

    rod retired and happy

    and make copies of everything---important papers tend to "disappear".
  7. Leftinbuilding

    Leftinbuilding Active Member

    Any paint transfer? Any matching damage to the PC?
  8. hurricanegunner

    hurricanegunner UPSPoop

    I am really sorry this happened to you Laura. This could happen to any driver at any time. Were there any matching scrapes on the package car? I know it is frustrating but please keep in touch with the union. The union is there to help you.
  9. over9five

    over9five Senior Member Staff Member

    What an ASS your DM is. He LIED saying how insistant you were that you did not hit that car, just so he could put a notch in his holster. Makes you proud to be an employee, doesn't it?
  10. upssalesguy

    upssalesguy UPS Defender

    i dont understand why you said they took pictures to match up the damage, but you have not said if the damages matched up.
  11. Re-Raise

    Re-Raise Well-Known Member

    That is because sitting at a desk he doesn't understand that you could actually scrape something with p1000 and REALLY not know you scraped it. I believe you, and I think anyone who drives these things everyday also believes you.

    It is too bad management doesn't give you the same benefit of the doubt.
  12. Re-Raise

    Re-Raise Well-Known Member

    Shouldn't you be buying doughnuts or something for a customer?
  13. MC4YOU2

    MC4YOU2 Yep, not wearing brown anymore

    Had a similar incident once where a dog got ran over and there was supposedly a "witness" that claimed it was a ups truck. Fortunately for the driver, gps showed he was not even on their street that day. People do some times blame us for unknown reasons. It happens.
  14. iruhnman630

    iruhnman630 Active Member

    stories like this give me nightmares.

    I had a scare from a similar incident in which an insurance investigator caught up with me in town and said he thought I had bumped and scraped a car at a hotel across from his home while making a multi-point turnaround in a tight spot. Long story short, after lining up my pkg car with the damage he agreed there was no way I had caused it.

    Unfortunately in the time that passed from the possible incident until I called in knowing I was in the clear, the complaint call had already been called in, and I spent the next 30 minutes defending myself on the phone as to why I didn't report the accident when there was no accident to report.
  15. nounitedway

    nounitedway New Member

    No words of advice. Just hang in there. Good luck.
  16. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    First, make sure you grieve/protest your firing within the short time limit; and ask for all revelant information.

    Your DM's outrageous handling of this incident will actually work to your advantage in getting your job back.
  17. rod

    rod retired and happy

    Great response:thumbsup: . I'm sure in this day and age a ups sales person should have enough complaints on their desk to keep them busy.
  18. laura

    laura New Member

    Thankyou all for your words of advice and encouragement. First off I wanna state that my fight is not whether I hit the car or not but that I was unaware that I did. There is some paint transfer on this womans car, not exactly a clear color of brown but dark paint. it was a black car. My PC that day has dents dings scrapes all over it. It was extremely filthy but this one particular spot near the rear tire had a cleaned scuff mark, like it did indeed rub against something. The DM just seems to be focused on me saying I didnt do it. I found it impossible that I did, but with this unknown witness, the fact that I was there and pictures I am not fighting whether I did or not. Im hearing from my shop steward that the DM is doing this to make me suffer because I embarrassed him in front of the whole building. They say that I will probably have my job back before the date of the arbitration. The DM keeps saying there are 3 witnesses, when asked for there names he says we are working on it. I called the woman of the vehicle and told her what happened and she was shocked and is willing to write a letter on my behalf stating that I wasnt insistant about not not hitting her, which seems to be his reason for the dishonesty. I dont understand how they get away with doing this, its very upsetting to me. Im not giving up and will fight him on this the best I can
  19. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Remember the Constitution? You have a right to confront your accuser. The unknown witness falls under this.
  20. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Laura, very sorry you have to go thru this. It's typical, tho, in todays UPS.

    Follow the advice already about getting ALL documents pertaining to this case. DO NOT present all these documents to anyone but yourself and all involved union people.

    And remember this and I hope your union people remember this also: When there is disciplinary action by the Company, you, of course, file a grievance. Then the burdon of proof in on THEM as to whether discipline was necessary or not. THEY have to prove their case. You, or more specifically you union people, have to REBUT their so-called proof.

    In YOUR case here, THEY have to prove dishonestly. THEY have to prove you lied (we know you didn't).

    Good luck. We're all pulling for you and keep us updated, please.