Doctors excuse

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Thanks to all of you for your great advice. I am now in the process of getting the paperwork I need. And a double thanks to those of you chiming in on how ignorant OP's remarks were.

littlelady,

I apologize in advance for the long post, but I hope you will find some value in it. I am going to give you some thoughts on FMLA from my experience as a member of management in operations.
First, as you have been told and are moving forward with, FMLA allows you to take either a chunk of days off or intermittent unplanned days. I would like to add two points to what has been said. First, pay close attention to what your doctor fills in on the paperwork. The company will both honor that, and hold you to it. For instance, if your doctor says you may need 2-3 days per month for your condition, expect to receive a write up if you attempt to use a 4th day in one month. Make sure that when you follow the normal call in procedures to use one of your days, that you explicitly tell your management team you are using FMLA, otherwise they may code you a normal sick day and again give you a write up for an attendance occurrence. Also pay attention to the maximum amount of time FMLA allows you to take. I believe for a part time employee it is 6 weeks total over a 12 month period. If you use 6 weeks worth of days in that time period, expect discipline on the next day you try to use one. FMLA is a federal law, and the company has no choice but to follow it, but has no obligation to extend one second beyond what it allows. Do not expect them to.

I hope you understand I am not trying to be insensitive. In a perfect world, there would be more compassion and understanding on our (meaning managements) side, and we could work together to come to a solution that works for both of us. In a perfect world, if you were approved for say 1 day a week by your doctor, but one week you needed a second day you could come to me as a member of your management team and I could say well, that is reasonable, it is not hugely out of the scope of the FMLA terms, sure, take that day, take that inch beyond what the law allows. The problem is, we as management have done that, given the inch, and the result has been that we have to manage a ton of employees taking a mile. We have operations where 60 percent of the employees have some form of intermittent FMLA approved by a doctor. If you look at the usage records, you often find that 90 percent of those days are Fridays or Mondays. You have the guys using an FMLA day that was approved by his doctor for migraines on a friday, then openly bragging to his friends on Monday about his 3 day weekend in Vegas. Basically taunting his management team with the fact they can do nothing about his blatant abuse of a federal law.

I do not tell you this in any way to accuse you of abusing this great federal law. Which, by the way, I have used myself after the birth of my daughter. I tell you this because I want you to understand that there are many people abusing this law, and it makes the job of management even more difficult. The result, wrongly or not, is that you have very frustrated management people. It would be nice if we could positively identify the people who are abusing the system from the people with legitimate situations and treat them differently, give no slack to the first group and more to the second. The problem is there is no way for us to positively tell, and it is not legal to try and punish the usage of the system by suspected abusers. So the only reasonable option we have is to follow the letter of the law, and hold all employees to it as well.

So, make sure you know exactly how much time you are entitled to. If you go over that allotment, expect to receive discipline. I know at that point it will feel like your management team is being unreasonable and uncaring and you may feel offended that they think you are abusing the system. They have no way of knowing if you are or not, and really should not be trying to make that determination.

One further point that has not been mentioned. The company has the right to pay out your bank of discretionary, vacation, and sick days for each FMLA day you use. You have the right to save one week of vacation, but you must request that up front, if you do not request to save your one week, the default is generally to pay it out.

For those who have been bashing optimus, I understand his comments seemed insensitive, and I do not blame you for your reaction. I hope you can understand his frustration though, and for justice sake hope that you have just as much ire for the people who abuse FMLA and create the environment where there really cannot be any flexibility and everyone using it either becomes or feels suspect.
 

DS

Fenderbender
littlelady,

I am going to give you some thoughts on FMLA from my experience as a member of management in operations.

Great post IE man:happy2:

by the way,Opto-Prime:angry:
circumventing the profanity filter by using CAPS
is not a good way to tell someone to
Go To Front Office
Follow the TOS or GTFO
 

JonFrum

Member
FMLA is a federal law, and the company has no choice but to follow it, but has no obligation to extend one second beyond what it allows. Do not expect them to.

The problem is, we as management have done that, given the inch, and the result has been that we have to manage a ton of employees taking a mile. We have operations where 60 percent of the employees have some form of intermittent FMLA approved by a doctor. If you look at the usage records, you often find that 90 percent of those days are Fridays or Mondays. You have the guys using an FMLA day that was approved by his doctor for migraines on a friday, then openly bragging to his friends on Monday about his 3 day weekend in Vegas. Basically taunting his management team with the fact they can do nothing about his blatant abuse of a federal law.

there are many people abusing this law, and it makes the job of management even more difficult. The result, wrongly or not, is that you have very frustrated management people. It would be nice if we could positively identify the people who are abusing the system from the people with legitimate situations and treat them differently, give no slack to the first group and more to the second. The problem is there is no way for us to positively tell, and it is not legal to try and punish the usage of the system by suspected abusers. So the only reasonable option we have is to follow the letter of the law, and hold all employees to it as well.

I've quoted the three paragraphs I think are wrong, wrong, wrong.

In some states FMLA is also state law, and if state law is more generous, then UPS must follow the more generous state version.
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60% of employees on intermittent FMLA leave? That can't be right. Add a comparable percent on regular FMLA leave and you probably have over 100% of employees FMLA eligible!!! I doubt 60% even know about FMLA, let alone have submitted the paperwork.
- - - -
Ask HR and Loss Prevention about the various legal ways UPS has to uncover and prosecute fraud and abuse of FMLA. They can always check with the doctor to verify appointments were kept, or ask every few months for recertification by the doctor of the ongoing medical need for leave. All they can't do is learn the private medical details of the employee.

And remember, FMLA leave, as such, is UNPAID leave. There's little incentive to abuse the system to begin with because you don't get any money; and you forfeit your vacations, sick days, and option days when leave is taken. It's not like fraudulently obtaining Welfare, Food Stamps, Unemployment Benefits or other government programs that pay you actual piles of cash.
 

littlelady

Well-Known Member
BrownIEman,

I appreciate your lengthly post and your tips from experience. It is pleasant to get such a reply.I was unaware of how it would effect my vacation but that's just part of the deal. It is extremely unlikely that my days will ever exceed the number allowed. Fortuanately I only really need a day every so often. I just want to protect my job so i'm trying to take a precaution. These days usually fall at inconvenient times in the middle of the week:happy2: I understand the abuse of these days....who can talk a doctor in to approving FMLA if there is no real medical need?That is just sad!I hope my management team does not look at it this way. When they see I am not blatently abusing the sytem,maybe they will have some understanding. As for Optimus, I appreciate his point of view but attacking someones legit issue when he knows nothing of my situation is still inappropriate. "If you can't say something nice............"
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
- - - -
60% of employees on intermittent FMLA leave? That can't be right. Add a comparable percent on regular FMLA leave and you probably have over 100% of employees FMLA eligible!!! I doubt 60% even know about FMLA, let alone have submitted the paperwork.
- - - -
I think he means 60% of people who have submitted paperwork and actually use FMLA leave. Not 60% of all employees.
 
I have yet to see a doctor have the Nostradamus like skills to be able to predict how many days a person might need. Like finger prints no two people are alike and therefore any mention of "affected days per month" would only be a guesstimate based on an average of similarly affected people. Therefore UPS has no right to hold the employee to said guesstimate. If the person needs another day more UPS is obliged,without discipline, to provide it. I have seen Mgmt step over the line on what they think is their power in the matter and they are quite surprised what a properly filed compliant with the DOL can do. Realize this. A person can file a complaint with UPS HR, the union, the DOL, and privately with an attorney. The latter can be directed both at UPS as well as the management individual themself. It has happened at our building and if valid UPS does not pay the mgmt persons legal fees.

Your best bet littlelady is to make sure any possible time periods that might cause a misunderstanding is left off your forms or have the Dr make a note that any such is only an estimate.
 

OptimusPrime

Well-Known Member
where are you optimusprime,you post big talk then never reappear on the thread?

I'm right here dawg! I'm the guy showing up everyday, busting my ass and doing my job. TC said they had some debilitating injury/illness that requires occasional random days off. I would love to have said ace up my sleeve. Cubs are playing the Reds at Great American on a Wednesday night, and my buddy scored some tixs. Sweet. Just call in my random injury/illness night. Oh wait, I can't.
 

littlelady

Well-Known Member
I'm right here dawg! I'm the guy showing up everyday, busting my ass and doing my job. TC said they had some debilitating injury/illness that requires occasional random days off. I would love to have said ace up my sleeve. Cubs are playing the Reds at Great American on a Wednesday night, and my buddy scored some tixs. Sweet. Just call in my random injury/illness night. Oh wait, I can't.


Well i'm so sorry optimus that you do not have a terrible illness but your statement here just supports the abuse of the system I assure you,since i'm not a sports fan that I consider your statement as a contradiction of your origional post crucifying those who actually need the legal help established for them...........................jealous much ?????
 

littlelady

Well-Known Member
NYOYB In case my management happened to be reviewing the site I have to keep it confidential. Although stating the problem would help this make sense.
 

littlelady

Well-Known Member
Optimus .....whatever the chip on your shoulder is, is irrelevant..... keep it out of my post or start your own.I was looking for some real experienced advice not bitterness! THANKS
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I'm right here dawg! I'm the guy showing up everyday, busting my ass and doing my job. TC said they had some debilitating injury/illness that requires occasional random days off. I would love to have said ace up my sleeve. Cubs are playing the Reds at Great American on a Wednesday night, and my buddy scored some tixs. Sweet. Just call in my random injury/illness night. Oh wait, I can't.

You are downplaying her medical situation as an easy way to get a day off??

I have never wished ill will on anyone but in your case I would love to see the roles reversed.

Harry, I wasn't going to "light him up", but he just doesn't have a clue as to how callous he is being.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Originally Posted by OptimusPrime

Call me an ass, but what kind of "serious" medical condition would require off one day here and there?"

Dialysis for kidney disease?
 

MC4YOU2

Wherever I see Trump, it smells like he's Putin.
Follow ups after major surgery, autoimmune disorders, most physical therapy, any condition requiring multiple testing....testing....testing.....on and on. Until you walk a mile in someone elses shoes its easy to criticize and downplay the pain and suffering. To be unduly critical is to request a personal learning experience of comparable severity.
 
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